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Windows 7: XP Mode in Windows 7 is no cop out


04 May 2009   #1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 x2 + x86 + Windows 8.1 x64 x2
 
 
XP Mode in Windows 7 is no cop out

XP Mode in Windows 7 is no cop out
Lee Mathews May 3rd 2009



I've been waiting to get my hands on the Windows Virtual XP beta for Windows 7 ever since reading about it on Within Windows. If you're not familiar with it, XP Mode is built on Virtual PC and the Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP), and is designed as a way to avoid application incompatibilities like those that plagued Vista.

Source

My System SpecsSystem Spec
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04 May 2009   #2

W7 X-64 RTM,SUSE 11.1, XP PRO SP3 as a VM, VMware ESXi
 
 

Hi there

Good informative post -- you show clearly EXACTLY what this feature is good for.
I'm tearing my hair out with posters who are trying to comapre this solution with a Fully featured "Virtualized" solution or using productls like vmware or Vbox,

One can post "Ad nauseam" but people STILL JUST DON'T GET IT.

Anyway great informative post -- should be COMPULSORY READING for anybody even thinking about using "XP compatability mode".

We run a load of SAP applications where I'm currently on contract (wish I could get the 600 GBP a day some of those guys get ). This stuff WON'T run even on VISTA. Some PC's here are still pf the "Old Fashioned" Cathode Ray tube stuff -- flickering screens and all.

Management has finally realized to junk these but the old apps must still run 100%.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2009   #3

Windows 7077
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi there
I'm tearing my hair out with posters who are trying to comapre this solution with a Fully featured "Virtualized" solution or using productls like vmware or Vbox
Explain.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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04 May 2009   #4

W7 X-64 RTM,SUSE 11.1, XP PRO SP3 as a VM, VMware ESXi
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by 12eason View Post
Explain.
Read the links in Barmans post -- The difference is explained quite clearly.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2009   #5

 

The flash video in this post of Rafael's shows it well - Windows XP Mode Internals – Part 2 (Application Publishing Magic) - Within Windows
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2009   #6

Windows 7077
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Read the links in Barmans post -- The difference is explained quite clearly.

Cheers
jimbo
Meh, could do more or less the same thing with virtualbox in seamless mode with rocketdock on the guest, and I wouldn't be limited to XP.

eta; why can't they extend the seamless functionality of xp mode to RDC, it's obviously uses the same technology. That would be way better than having a virtual machine. I could access all my server programs as if they were on my local box.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2009   #7

W7 X-64 RTM,SUSE 11.1, XP PRO SP3 as a VM, VMware ESXi
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by 12eason View Post
Meh, could do more or less the same thing with virtualbox in seamless mode with rocketdock on the guest, and I wouldn't be limited to XP.

eta; why can't they extend the seamless functionality of xp mode to RDC, it's obviously uses the same technology. That would be way better than having a virtual machine. I could access all my server programs as if they were on my local box.

1) OF COURSE you can do (almost) the same thing with other VM software such as Virtual BOX -- like fire up a windows XP VM and run applications -- but you obviously haven't either read or understood the implications the previous posts - particularly with regard to costs, maintenance and useability.

2) With XPM you get an Integrated XP SP3 pre-built VM which is tightly integrated with the Windows 7 desktop.

3)If you use say Virtual Box you have to install a licensed copy of say XP into your VM for each of the machines in your network and you normally have to boot into the VM to start applications.

4) For a smallish business upgrading their machines (and however good VBOX might be most businesses don't use Open source software for critical missions - and I think in a commercial environment you have to pay for VBOX) your solution would - apart from the extra work of installing the Guest OS on each machine you'd have to pay an extra two licenses -- one for the VM software and another for the XP system you are installing as a guest OS.

With XPM mode you've actually got an actual XP system so no extra charge.

5) some corporate applications are NOT always run from centralised servers -even though the central data bases might be on a DB server or even on a combination of application and database servers you still need a "Front end PC application " to access these (often called the "Presentation server) which might (and probably will) only work on Windows XP.

I usually quote SAP type of applications -- since SAP has a HUGE number of customers running their applications (CRM. HR, Logistics, Portals, etc etc).

The SAPGUI to access this stuff runs mainly on Windows and still has no 64 bit support. Even VISTA support is still "experimental" so no major customer using this software is going to switch to VISTA for this.

However with XP mode it gets the users out of a nasty jam -- software will work from the desktop and the companies can relatively cheaply upgrade their hardware in stages without having to install loads of different XP guest VM machines plus worry about scores of licensing issues.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2009   #8

Windows 7077
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
1) OF COURSE you can do (almost) the same thing with other VM software such as Virtual BOX -- like fire up a windows XP VM and run applications -- but you obviously haven't either read or understood the implications the previous posts - particularly with regard to costs, maintenance and useability.
Cost? You have to install the highest versions of Windows 7 on machines with expensive CPUs. It would cost a fortune to deploy.
Quote:
2) With XPM you get an Integrated XP SP3 pre-built VM which is tightly integrated with the Windows 7 desktop.
'Tightly' integrated about a fraction more than Vbox.
Quote:
3)If you use say Virtual Box you have to install a licensed copy of say XP into your VM for each of the machines in your network and you normally have to boot into the VM to start applications.
I could buy a licensed copy of XP for the difference in price between the basic Windows 7 and the Windows 7 needed for your 'free' copy, and still have change. But, that's me. A company that actually needed XP mode would actually already have a licensed copy of XP wouldn't they?
As for having to boot it, a)you can save states, b)XP mode does the same when you launch an app.
Quote:
4) For a smallish business upgrading their machines (and however good VBOX might be most businesses don't use Open source software for critical missions
Yes, because Linux servers are so unreliable.
Quote:
and I think in a commercial environment you have to pay for VBOX) your solution would - apart from the extra work of installing the Guest OS on each machine you'd have to pay an extra two licenses -- one for the VM software and another for the XP system you are installing as a guest OS.
It'd still be cheaper than deploying the top version throughout the company on expensive multi core computers.
Quote:
However with XP mode it gets the users out of a nasty jam -- software will work from the desktop and the companies can relatively cheaply upgrade their hardware in stages without having to install loads of different XP guest VM machines plus worry about scores of licensing issues.
So, just to reiterate, your solution would involve a company with a network of computers all having XP installed, first replacing them all with really expensive computers needed to run XP mode (not 'relatively cheaply' as you falsely claim), then installing a really expensive version of Windows 7 on all of them. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, throwing all of their perfectly good XP licenses away to install their 'free' copy instead.
With Vbox, they truly could make small upgrades to their computers without breaking the bank and they could reuse all of their licenses for XP and the end product would be just as functional.
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 XP Mode in Windows 7 is no cop out




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