Wat update - yes/no?

Staple Head · Mar 7, 2010

this is now a mute point the update has already been cracked the day it came out.

KCINREBAK · Mar 9, 2010

yeah your right, theres a crack already in progress for it, and when they release an update for that crack, another crack will be released, its a never ending cycle that microsoft cannot win, pirating is imposible to stop considering the ratio of people downloading it to the ratio of people trying to stop it. still, microsoft is sneaky and knew this update was coming long before seven was released. This is just another move to make windows more secure which is good in a way, but losing the trust of customers is retarded

Staple Head · Mar 9, 2010

KCINREBAK said:
yeah your right, theres a crack already in progress for it, and when they release an update for that crack, another crack will be released, its a never ending cycle that microsoft cannot win, pirating is imposible to stop considering the ratio of people downloading it to the ratio of people trying to stop it. still, microsoft is sneaky and knew this update was coming long before seven was released. This is just another move to make windows more secure which is good in a way, but losing the trust of customers is retarded

actually microsour has already won. who do you really think released most of the copies to the torrent / p2p sites, microsour themselves. people that work for microsoft created most of the cracks. it is nothing more than free advertising for them.

mpcrsc562 · Mar 9, 2010

the whole thing is stupid to me, pardon my interruption.

if you don't want to install it the update, don't.

it's ironic, though, that you don't want your os "phoning home," but to ensure that your os is running safely, you'll let your antivirus / antispyware do what it needs to do automatically...

if you're technically savvy enough to not install it then you're equally as technically savvy enough to handle any problems that may arise down the line. ;)

(and speaking of control, the only thing any of us truly has control over is what we create. you want an os you want to control? make your own. linux is free, but it still needs patching too... ;))

Staple Head · Mar 9, 2010

mpcrsc562 said:
the whole thing is stupid to me, pardon my interruption.

if you don't want to install it the update, don't.

it's ironic, though, that you don't want your os "phoning home," but to ensure that your os is running safely, you'll let your antivirus / antispyware do what it needs to do automatically...

if you're technically savvy enough to not install it then you're equally as technically savvy enough to handle any problems that may arise down the line. ;)

(and speaking of control, the only thing any of us truly has control over is what we create. you want an os you want to control? make your own. linux is free, but it still needs patching too... ;))

actually every three days i manually check for any and all updates to my software, including antivirus / spyware / firewall, and on the second wednesday of every month i manually chec k windows update and manually pick and chose which updates to manually install. i have never and never will allow anything to phone home automatically. as previously stated myself just like most users believe once we pay for our copy of the os it is our copy, microsoft can believe that they are just allowing us to use it if they want. as for the wat is was cracked the day after it came out. so now it is a mute point. microsoft will update it, it will get cracked again.

mpcrsc562 · Mar 9, 2010

Staple Head said:
as for the wat is was cracked the day after it came out. so now it is a mute point. microsoft will update it, it will get cracked again.

i read about that, but from what i read, both ms and the cracker community will be hard at work from now on. the wat is supposed to check every 90 days if the particular files have been tampered with.

The installer also creates a new Windows Activation Technologies folder in Task Scheduler and adds two new entries to it. The first task is configured to run at the next restart and then to reset the task trigger so that it runs again 90 days later. The second task is configured to run a week after the first one. When the first task ran successfully on my test systems, the Next Run Time was set to a date 90 days in the future for the first task, and one week after that new date for the second task. (According to Microsoft, the purpose of the second task is to allow the update to run weekly after it detects and repairs a system whose activation files have been tampered with.)

According to the initial settings of the main Scheduled Task created during installation of KB971033, it is set to run at the next startup. After it runs successfully, it sets its Next Run Time to 90 days later.

Windows Activation Technologies: an unauthorized inside look | Ed Bott’s Microsoft Report | ZDNet.com

mpcrsc562 · Mar 9, 2010

KCINREBAK said:
Just got hit with the Wat update. Im using a copy of seven ultimate with a OEM key in which I prefer not to say where I got it but if I install the wat update will it patch my seven to where i only have a 30 day evalution? or if I choose not to install it will I be able to continue updates?

if you choose not to install it, you'll still be able to receive [other] updates microsoft update.

read in full: Windows Activation Technologies: an unauthorized inside look | Ed Bott’s Microsoft Report | ZDNet.com

Staple Head · Mar 9, 2010

mpcrsc562 said:
Staple Head said:

as for the wat is was cracked the day after it came out. so now it is a mute point. microsoft will update it, it will get cracked again.

Click to expand...

i read about that, but from what i read, both ms and the cracker community will be hard at work from now on. the wat is supposed to check every 90 days if the particular files have been tampered with.

The installer also creates a new Windows Activation Technologies folder in Task Scheduler and adds two new entries to it. The first task is configured to run at the next restart and then to reset the task trigger so that it runs again 90 days later. The second task is configured to run a week after the first one. When the first task ran successfully on my test systems, the Next Run Time was set to a date 90 days in the future for the first task, and one week after that new date for the second task. (According to Microsoft, the purpose of the second task is to allow the update to run weekly after it detects and repairs a system whose activation files have been tampered with.)

Click to expand...

According to the initial settings of the main Scheduled Task created during installation of KB971033, it is set to run at the next startup. After it runs successfully, it sets its Next Run Time to 90 days later.

Click to expand...

Windows Activation Technologies: an unauthorized inside look | Ed Bott’s Microsoft Report | ZDNet.com

the current wat crack removes all the wat files allows you to install kb971033 and pass the 90 day check.

sanford · Mar 9, 2010

I guess I am stupid, but I still fail to see why anyone would actually want to install this?

What am I missing?

RST101 · Mar 9, 2010

Nothing, just another episode of ms can do what it likes because we the people let them.

It won't get any where near my computer. I have activated once and now they want to snoop, ha your having a laugh.

They will probably want to charge you again in 12 months another £100.

Staple Head · Mar 9, 2010

sanford said:
I guess I am stupid, but I still fail to see why anyone would actually want to install this?

What am I missing?

your missing nothing. you are right most users will not want to install this.

CarlTR6 · Mar 9, 2010

seekermeister said:
I'm still waiting for the answer to a question that I posted in another thread. Apparently, WAT creates a new service, and I'm wondering what happens if that service is disabled?

Nothing so far; but it is not due to phone home for 85 days. You can change the date it triggers to phone home by up to 365 days.

CarlTR6 · Mar 9, 2010

Thorsen said:
dmdilks said:

You know the funny part of all of this is how Billy Boy & Microsoft started out. How I understand it he stole everything thing he started out with.

Click to expand...

LOL this is false. I never get tired of hearing the stories though. Ah....

Such stories show that a good tale sells better than the truth.

Staple Head · Mar 9, 2010

CarlTR6 said:
Thorsen said:

dmdilks said:

You know the funny part of all of this is how Billy Boy & Microsoft started out. How I understand it he stole everything thing he started out with.

Click to expand...

LOL this is false. I never get tired of hearing the stories though. Ah....

Click to expand...

Such stories show that a good tale sells better than the truth.

the truth of the matter is that people seem to forget the trouble microsour got into with xp and it's activation scheme where microsour was collecting far more information than they claimed they were. nor do people want to here the truth that microsour makes a 2000% profit per copy of windows they sell.

Kari · Mar 9, 2010

RST101 said:
It won't get any where near my computer. I have activated once and now they want to snoop, ha your having a laugh.

You want to make a bet? It's optional now, with purpose, but eventually you are going to have to choose: run Win7 with WAT or find another OS.

RST101 said:
They will probably want to charge you again in 12 months another £100.

Most naive comment I've seen or heard.

Staple Head said:
sanford said:

I guess I am stupid, but I still fail to see why anyone would actually want to install this?

What am I missing?

Click to expand...

your missing nothing. you are right most users will not want to install this.

Most users have nothing to be afraid and worry, so most users accept the facts and install it / let it be installed. These normal users install it latest when it is no more optional (believe me, that day comes sooner than you think!). It would be insane to try to avoid it by using different cracks, only because it checks four times a year if everything is OK.

We have to remember we do not own Windows; instead we have just bought a licence, a permission to use this property of Microsoft as the EULA clearly states. (View attachment Windows 7 Official End User License Agreement (EULA).pdf)

As I said, nobody with a legal copy of Windows will have any bigger problems. In some rare cases the user might have to re-activate by phone but it is a peace of cake.

Kari

Staple Head · Mar 10, 2010

Kari said:
RST101 said:

It won't get any where near my computer. I have activated once and now they want to snoop, ha your having a laugh.

Click to expand...

You want to make a bet? It's optional now, with purpose, but eventually you are going to have to choose: run Win7 with WAT or find another OS.

RST101 said:

They will probably want to charge you again in 12 months another £100.

Click to expand...

Most naive comment I've seen or heard.

Staple Head said:

sanford said:

I guess I am stupid, but I still fail to see why anyone would actually want to install this?

What am I missing?

Click to expand...

your missing nothing. you are right most users will not want to install this.

Click to expand...

Most users have nothing to be afraid and worry, so most users accept the facts and install it / let it be installed. These normal users install it latest when it is no more optional (believe me, that day comes sooner than you think!). It would be insane to try to avoid it by using different cracks, only because it checks four times a year if everything is OK.

We have to remember we do not own Windows; instead we have just bought a licence, a permission to use this property of Microsoft as the EULA clearly states. (View attachment 59771)

As I said, nobody with a legal copy of Windows will have any bigger problems. In some rare cases the user might have to re-activate by phone but it is a peace of cake.

Kari

what part of the fact that we do not want something phoning home do you not understand? that is the main issue. as for the patch being forced on user that do not want it, NOT. as previously stated in this thread kb971033 has already ben cracked and microsoft will fix it and it will be cracked again. when it is included in sp1 hackers will simply rewrite sp1 to not include it. regardless of the eula most user consider the copy of the os that they paid for theirs, and this is not going to change just because microsoft says so.

Kari · Mar 10, 2010

Staple Head said:
what part of the fact that we do not want something phoning home do you not understand? that is the main issue. as for the patch being forced on user that do not want it, NOT. as previously stated in this thread kb971033 has already ben cracked and microsoft will fix it and it will be cracked again. when it is included in sp1 hackers will simply rewrite sp1 to not include it. regardless of the eula most user consider the copy of the os that they paid for theirs, and this is not going to change just because microsoft says so.

What part of facts stated in the Windows 7 EULA you agreed to 'obey' and follow when you installed Microsoft's property (Windows) do you not understand?

EULA, paragraphs 4 and 5(a) & (b):

Windows 7 EULA said:
4. MANDATORY ACTIVATION.

Activation associates the use of the software with a specific computer. During activation, the software will send information about the software and the computer to Microsoft. This information includes the version, language and product key of the software, the Internet protocol address of the computer, and information derived from the hardware configuration of the computer. For more information, see Windows 7 Privacy Statement - Microsoft Windows. By using the software, you consent to the transmission of this information. If properly licensed, you have the right to use the version of the software installed during the installation process up to the time permitted for activation. Unless the software is activated, you have no right to use the software after the time permitted for activation. This is to prevent its unlicensed use. You are not permitted to bypass or circumvent activation. If the computer is connected to the Internet, the software may automatically connect to Microsoft for activation. You can also activate the software manually by Internet or telephone. If you do so, Internet and telephone service charges may apply. Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate it until you do.

5. VALIDATION.
a. Validation verifies that the software has been activated and is properly licensed. It also verifies that no unauthorized changes have been made to the validation, licensing, or activation functions of the software. Validation may also check for certain malicious or unauthorized software related to such unauthorized changes. A validation check confirming that you are properly licensed permits you to continue to use the software, certain features of the software or to obtain additional benefits. You are not permitted to circumvent validation. This is to prevent unlicensed use of the software. For more information, see Genuine Microsoft Software.

b. The software will from time to time perform a validation check of the software. The check may be initiated by the software or Microsoft. To enable the activation function and validation checks, the software may from time to time require updates or additional downloads of the validation, licensing or activation functions of the software. The updates or downloads are required for the proper functioning of the software and may be downloaded and installed without further notice to you. During or after a validation check, the software may send information about the software, the computer and the results of the validation check to Microsoft. This information includes, for example, the version and product key of the software, any unauthorized changes made to the validation, licensing or activation functions of the software, any related malicious or unauthorized software found and the Internet protocol address of the computer. Microsoft does not use the information to identify or contact you. By using the software, you consent to the transmission of this information. For more information about validation and what is sent during or after a validation check, see Genuine Microsoft Software.

Microsoft does not force us to use Windows. If you pay for the licence, or obtain it in another legal way, Microsoft allows you to use Windows as long as you agree to EULA. If you don't agree, you should IMO use Linux or other OS instead.

Windows is not the first OS or application to call home and certainly not the last, quite a number of applications do this. The AV program checks the validity of the licence etc.

I repeat what I've said numerous times: If the user has nothing to hide, what harm can be done and how the h*** would user even notice it, if Windows 'calls home' 4 times year without user even noticing it?

Kari

Dwarf · Mar 10, 2010

Well said, Kari. Here are the main points from Section 5b, which I have highlighted.

Windows 7 EULA said:
4. MANDATORY ACTIVATION.

Activation associates the use of the software with a specific computer. During activation, the software will send information about the software and the computer to Microsoft. This information includes the version, language and product key of the software, the Internet protocol address of the computer, and information derived from the hardware configuration of the computer. For more information, see Windows 7 Privacy Statement - Microsoft Windows. By using the software, you consent to the transmission of this information. If properly licensed, you have the right to use the version of the software installed during the installation process up to the time permitted for activation. Unless the software is activated, you have no right to use the software after the time permitted for activation. This is to prevent its unlicensed use. You are not permitted to bypass or circumvent activation. If the computer is connected to the Internet, the software may automatically connect to Microsoft for activation. You can also activate the software manually by Internet or telephone. If you do so, Internet and telephone service charges may apply. Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate it until you do.

5. VALIDATION.
a. Validation verifies that the software has been activated and is properly licensed. It also verifies that no unauthorized changes have been made to the validation, licensing, or activation functions of the software. Validation may also check for certain malicious or unauthorized software related to such unauthorized changes. A validation check confirming that you are properly licensed permits you to continue to use the software, certain features of the software or to obtain additional benefits. You are not permitted to circumvent validation. This is to prevent unlicensed use of the software. For more information, see Genuine Microsoft Software.

b. The software will from time to time perform a validation check of the software. The check may be initiated by the software or Microsoft. To enable the activation function and validation checks, the software may from time to time require updates or additional downloads of the validation, licensing or activation functions of the software. The updates or downloads are required for the proper functioning of the software and may be downloaded and installed without further notice to you. During or after a validation check, the software may send information about the software, the computer and the results of the validation check to Microsoft. This information includes, for example, the version and product key of the software, any unauthorized changes made to the validation, licensing or activation functions of the software, any related malicious or unauthorized software found and the Internet protocol address of the computer. Microsoft does not use the information to identify or contact you. By using the software, you consent to the transmission of this information. For more information about validation and what is sent during or after a validation check, see Genuine Microsoft Software.

sanford · Mar 10, 2010

Kari said:
Most users have nothing to be afraid and worry, so most users accept the facts and install it / let it be installed. These normal users install it latest when it is no more optional (believe me, that day comes sooner than you think!). It would be insane to try to avoid it by using different cracks, only because it checks four times a year if everything is OK.

We have to remember we do not own Windows; instead we have just bought a licence, a permission to use this property of Microsoft as the EULA clearly states. (View attachment 59771)

As I said, nobody with a legal copy of Windows will have any bigger problems. In some rare cases the user might have to re-activate by phone but it is a peace of cake.

Kari

From my perspective, being "afraid" has nothing to do with it...

What I fail to see is any benefit to the end user. This update does not "fix a problem", make my PC faster, protect my pc from malware, etc.

Again I ask "what am I missing?"

Kari · Mar 10, 2010

sanford said:
From my perspective, being "afraid" has nothing to do with it...

What I fail to see is any benefit to the end user. This update does not "fix a problem", make my PC faster, protect my pc from malware, etc.

Again I ask "what am I missing?"

It does not always have to be something that directly benefits the end user. Microsoft is a commercial enterprise, trying to make profit to its shareholders. As long as using their OS's and applications stay on voluntary basis, they have every right to expect the end users to follow the rules.

It is no more curios than for instance Norton AV checking the validity of your licence every time it downloads new AV definitions, almost daily it is. Or a game update to check if your licence is OK thus allowing you to install the update. If you have chosen to pay for the right to use a Norton AV application, they have right to check your licence is valid.

This is only a variation of things happening all around us, every day. Credit card companies checking applicants before granting a new card, employers asking recruits to do drug tests before offering a job, customs checking the passengers to decide if they are entitled to enter a country. They do not think we are criminal or otherwise not trustworthy; they just need to be as sure as possible.

Same thing with Microsoft. As a market leader, they OS's and software belong to the most cracked ones. They have every right to do whatever they can to protect their property. Luckily these methods used by Microsoft cause no harm, they do not slow down or affect your computer. You do not even notice these checks.

You as an end user have a free choice. You can choose not to use Windows if you disagree with EULA.

Kari

Wat update - yes/no?

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