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Windows 7: SSD's and System Restore

13 Sep 2010   #11
karlsnooks

MS Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
 
 

Although there are many which do work correctly with Microsoft software, my choice, Microsoft Security Essentials, works perfectly, smoothly, and with a small-footprint.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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13 Sep 2010   #12
Les

Win 7 64Bt Ult
 
 

Apologies, I need to backtrack here because I cannot find the reference. Intel's New SSD Users Guide states to shut down Super fetch and I cannot find the reference where they state to shut down system restore as it has been so long now. I can, however, find tons of examples of performance degradation which was the result of System Restore being active and a simple Google search gets one to any of them.

If you do such, you will find a large number that were assisted by Flamenko; that is me. This icludes a long forum between myself and an Intel Rep (SSDelightful) where he said intel would look into it and then never returned.

With respect to Pre/Superfetch and RAM being faster. This is another wives tail which stands side by side with shutting down pagefile, another topic I have been very active on since the first release of an SSD. My belief is that I shut pagefile down because, well its useless and I want to force my RAM to be used to its fullest whereas you counter by saying when RAM is on, Super/Prefetch is faster.

The truth is that neither of us can back that up with any data. There is absolutely no recognizable difference whatsoever and we are relying on logic with no verification at the end.

In the end, the OP can follow either direction and received both sides of the argument. We can go back and forth for 100 posts and we will still be no further ahead.
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13 Sep 2010   #13
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Les View Post
Apologies, I need to backtrack here because I cannot find the reference. Intel's New SSD Users Guide states to shut down Super fetch and I cannot find the reference where they state to shut down system restore as it has been so long now. I can, however, find tons of examples of performance degradation which was the result of System Restore being active and a simple Google search gets one to any of them.

If you do such, you will find a large number that were assisted by Flamenko; that is me. This icludes a long forum between myself and an Intel Rep (SSDelightful) where he said intel would look into it and then never returned.

With respect to Pre/Superfetch and RAM being faster. This is another wives tail which stands side by side with shutting down pagefile, another topic I have been very active on since the first release of an SSD. My belief is that I shut pagefile down because, well its useless and I want to force my RAM to be used to its fullest whereas you counter by saying when RAM is on, Super/Prefetch is faster.

The truth is that neither of us can back that up with any data. There is absolutely no recognizable difference whatsoever and we are relying on logic with no verification at the end.

In the end, the OP can follow either direction and received both sides of the argument. We can go back and forth for 100 posts and we will still be no further ahead.
I would disagree about the PF, and this is why.

I have actually seen several "Virtual Memory Errors" due to the Page File being disabled or set to low, with certain applications or games. Even in Win7.

Both from helping others resolve crashing issues of applications/games, and I have also seen it happen on my own machines in the past.
Each with varying amounts of RAM (4GB, 8GB, and even more)

A quick Google of what causes 'Virtual Memory Error" will yield many results pointing to the Page File.

You will still use the same amount of RAM with the page File On as you do OFF, as Seven will not really use it unless it needs to.

The only difference is, if the app in questions wants/needs a PF for whatever reason, the app will crash with a Virtual Memory error if it is disabled.



-->Superfetch I suppose is really a personal choice. To me, I can tell a difference when it is on.
Everything is snappier.

Plus I like the fact it per-loads and uses every single MB of my 8GB of my RAM, (albiet most in standby mode) of everything 7 knows I will be using that day.

So even with the PF ON, and SF on, I have 0 free space left of 8GB RAM.

So in my experience (limited I know), it seems to me turning off the PF can only lead to trouble, and doesnt force the system to use more RAM, as it already uses it all with it on.
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13 Sep 2010   #14
Mellon Head

Win 7 Pro x64/Win 10 Pro x64 dual boot
 
 

I have to disagree Les.

Turning off your System Restore is rather silly, unless you image your drive very often.

My new SSD (WD Silicon Edge Blue 64GB) has a life estimate of 3 years when writing 17.5 GB per day to the drive. I can't see System Restore/Superfetch/Prefetch writing that much data to a drive that I only use as a system and program drive. My pagefile is on a spinning drive, as well as all of my data.

The average spinning drive lasts me about 3 to 5 years, though some go longer. If I can get 5 years out of this SSD, I'd say I've done well. By that time, they will be dirt cheap to replace.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 Sep 2010   #15
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Les View Post
With respect to Pre/Superfetch and RAM being faster. This is another wives tail
Um....no....RAM is much, much, much faster than any SSD drive. When I run winsat mem I got approx 7500MB/s....and my Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD gets around 220MB/s using HDTune. So, my RAM is about 34 times faster than my SSD drive.

When i went from superfetch off to superfetch on with my computer and my SSD, I saw a noticeable difference in about 2 days. Small apps don't see hardly any difference because you are loading very little data...but larger apps have benefited.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
Maybe this isn't the case anymore, but I've learned to just properly back up my system, and my users systems, so there's never been a need to chance System Restore. I can just reimage and restore my data, same as all of my users.
System restore is never a substitute for a backup. But once after loading a crappy roxio application, a few machines had their burners simply disappear. Uninstalling Roxio didn't bring the drive back. Running system restore and going back just prior to installing the crappy roxio application solved the issue. I found that much easier than doing a full image restore in that instance.
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13 Sep 2010   #16
eldinv

DOS^
 
 

I disable my restore points with a regular hard drive, lol.

Happy Imaging!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 Sep 2010   #17
thehappyman

Win 7 Ultimate x64
 
 
My SSD and System Restore

Thanks to everybody for your opinions - though I notice that some of them differ quite a bit.

In my 10 years of experience with XP I have used System Restore many, many times, almost always after I have made some stupid mistake, modifying the OS in some objectionable way, or when a program install fails after its already changed the registry. I have grown used to having System Restore to fix small mistakes (in the registry) that have not corrupted the OS or any SPECIFIC Programs.

I also image my c drive about once a month or after I make major changes to the system. I use Acronis True Home for the imaging. It images RAID 0 ARRAYS with no problem.

When the OS itself gets corrupted (this is quite rare) or a program gets "damaged" (also rare), then System Restore is useless and the entire C drive must be restored from its latest mirror image backup.

To recover the registry settings with System Restore (which works 99% of the time) it takes only a couple of minutes. Re-imaging the entire C drive on my last system (with two 150 GB WD 10,000 rpm Raptors) would take maybe a half hour (I would always use the verify after restore cmd). So clearly I'd much rather use System Restore as long as it fixes the problem. And I dont want to have to waste a half hour every day making a new mirror image backup to another drive.

My SSD will be 256 GB so it isnt really, really small. My only concern is that System Restore wont harm it in any way and that System Restore will work as reliably on the SSD as it does a regular disk. Of course I will be using Win 7 now, not XP.

I plan on calling my SSD manuafacturer after I get my system and asking their Tech Support how they feel about it and what they recommend. The company I am buying the system from says that they use SSD's from 3 different manufacturers so I wont know my SSD manufacturer until I get the system and take a look at the disk inside. Then I will know who to call. Two more weeks for the new system to arrive.......

I have read the "SSD Review" and their optimization guides. I know they suggest to turn System Restore off with an SSD but I'd rather not do that unless I am forced to.
There are perhaps many things that one can do to reduce the total number of writes to the SDD. Like relocating the Browser's temporary internert files to another drive, and maybe relocating Outlooks .PST file to another drive ????? And then theres the question of what to do with the swap file.

I know I'll be doing some benchmarks every month to see if the SSD slows down at all. I am assuming at this time that the TRIM operation will work without any problems.

Thanks again to all for your suggestions, I wish it was more "black and white" but I guess theres going to be some experimenting.

Any more opions or suggestions you SSD'ers ?????
My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Sep 2010   #18
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Remember that alot of times with disabling things for SSD, it's to ensure a long life of the product. In my opinion, people exaggerate and blow this problem way out of proportion. In principal, the fewer the rights, the better. I agree with that. However, if it's the difference between lasting 5 years or lasting 12 years...I don't care...as I will never have it for either length of time. Thus, I don't worry about these little oddball tweaks. If I want to ensure a long life, I'll just skip using my computer for a couple of days and it will extend the life of the SSD.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Sep 2010   #19
thehappyman

Win 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Remember that alot of times with disabling things for SSD, it's to ensure a long life of the product. In my opinion, people exaggerate and blow this problem way out of proportion. In principal, the fewer the rights, the better. I agree with that. However, if it's the difference between lasting 5 years or lasting 12 years...I don't care...as I will never have it for either length of time. Thus, I don't worry about these little oddball tweaks. If I want to ensure a long life, I'll just skip using my computer for a couple of days and it will extend the life of the SSD.
Practical Logic there Pparks1
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2011   #20
winsupertweaker

W7 64 Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by thehappyman View Post
So "they" tell us to always turn System Restore off if you are using an SSD. So what happens if you turn System Restore off and some new program you are installing tries to create a restore point ??? Does that still work ??? And why does system restore hurt an SSD that supports the TRIM operation ????
Everyone is correct about "things being over exagerated when using an SSD". Yes, do keep System Restore intact, just reduce how much space it uses on the drive. I have my 60 GB reduced to just 500 MB. That's plenty of system restore space for a couple of days.

I would also like to mention all the hype about AHCI. Unless you are going to use the features included in this mode for drives, you're just fine with SATA/IDE in your BIOS. Windows 7 will not flinch at all when you plug-in your SSD and install your OS.

I use a huge battery backup, therefore I disable Write Caching and Page File. I also have Indexing file on both internal drives disabled. Most of do very little file searching in our Systems, so that's more space and time saved by not simply right clicking on your drive, uncheck Indexing and choose "ignore all" when prompted. Some of those are system files that need to be indexed. No sweat when you do that.

Now. On top of all this information, if you are not creating a system image using Acronis, Widows 7 Backup Utility or any other 3rd party system backup software, you're really taking a very unnecessary risk of losing data and reformating and installing Windows.

Please, pease please! Use Windows Backup and make a system image or use any other reputable system image creator/backup software. You are going to thank youself a 1000 times over should your SSD or HDD crash and burn or get terribly infected.



Attached Thumbnails
SSD's and System Restore-writecatching.png   SSD's and System Restore-systemrestore.png   SSD's and System Restore-pagefile.png  
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 SSD's and System Restore




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