backup solutions, and infection concerns regarding a restore?

Double · Oct 17, 2013

On average I seem to do a hard reset (reinstall) about every 8-12 months. I just had one recently, and I've been doing so without a backup solution. I already use Dropbox, but only use it for pictures. I would like to make the process of reinstalling easier by backing up and batch-restoring apps, but is this possible? --wouldn't mind backing up Windows Updates and Service Pack either, though I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

I do have concerns regarding backup solutions, one of them being possible file infection. Hypothetically, if I backed up files after receiving a malware/virus infection, wouldn't traces of the infection(s) tether itself to the backed up data and restore itself onto the new system?? I do not fully understand how an infection travels, but it does not seem to affect my music/video/picture files. However when it comes to system or app files, I'm quite weary about those due to the many different file extensions there are (dll/exe/etc).

Any advice on these subjects would be appreciated

Layback Bear · Oct 17, 2013

To put it simple.
Any thing what ever (pictures, date, programs,operating system) anything that you backuped when the system is infected the backup will contain the infection.
Their are so many infections; millions of them. Some infect different things.
Yes you can have a infected picture or music; it all depends on how the infection was created and designed to do. Anything that was plugged into the computer that has a storage ability where a infection can hide can also be infected.
Infection can also get into Restore Points and many do. There are volumes wrote on infections that would take a life time to read. Anything you intend to backup should be clean of all infection what ever name they go by BEFORE you do the backup.

I hope this answers your question.

Double · Oct 18, 2013

Layback Bear said:
To put it simple.
Any thing what ever (pictures, date, programs,operating system) anything that you backuped when the system is infected the backup will contain the infection.
Their are so many infections; millions of them. Some infect different things.
Yes you can have a infected picture or music; it all depends on how the infection was created and designed to do. Anything that was plugged into the computer that has a storage ability where a infection can hide can also be infected.
Infection can also get into Restore Points and many do. There are volumes wrote on infections that would take a life time to read. Anything you intend to backup should be clean of all infection what ever name they go by BEFORE you do the backup.

Hmm.. I'm a bit troubled by what you said there, but you must be talking about an obvious infection that causes the system to become crippled to the point of being unusable, like scareware or something to that effect.

I've experienced scareware on an older machine, but it has been years since anything like that has happened to me. None the antivirus I've used since then (ESET/Norton/Avast) have been able to pick up on anything, not even Malwarebytes. I believe I could consider my machine safe, even the backed up stuff in my Dropbox, but sometimes I am still left wondering why my system will act strangely at times; the problem is never obvious, and it can be hard to decide if the "strangeness" is related to infection, or not.

How on earth does a picture get infected? A typical jpeg is only made up of a bunch of pixels and metadata? There are trillions of pictures online, and people are downloading them at a rapid rate. Does this mean nearly every system in the world is doomed for infection? If that is the case, I never realized how hopeless it is to keep a clean machine. :shock:

Layback Bear said:
I hope this answers your question.

kinda.. I'm still looking for an answer to this:

I would like to make the process of reinstalling easier by backing up and batch-restoring apps, but is this possible? --wouldn't mind backing up Windows Updates and Service Pack either, though I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

Layback Bear · Oct 18, 2013

This is the question I was trying to answer. I must of not done a very good job. From you post #1

I do have concerns regarding backup solutions, one of them being possible file infection. Hypothetically, if I backed up files after receiving a malware/virus infection, wouldn't traces of the infection(s) tether itself to the backed up data and restore itself onto the new system??

Anything and Everything that is infected and then a backup is made. The backup will also be infected.

I don't know how to wright or code a virus but the bad guys do know how. Yes pictures can and have been infected including Desktop pictures.
You monitor displays in pixels and that is what you see.
The operating system and/or programs you use to display that picture sees code and that is what gets infected.

You can use Windows 7 inbuilt back up ability or you can use a 3rd party program. This is how it's done in Windows 7.
By Brink.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/663-backup-complete-computer-create-image-backup.html

No every computer in the world is not doomed. That is why we use security programs and the method used while on line to help protect our computers.

Just make sure what ever you want to backup has been scanned with your security programs before backing up.

DavidE · Oct 18, 2013

I'll try a different approach to try and help you.

IMHO, you should not need "to do a hard reset (reinstall) about every 8-12 months" or ever again if you get a pristine clean install and create a system backup image and keep it offline.

Worst case, 12 months later you could restore that image and start from there...

If you do it right, you can then create another image that will include all Windows updates (after installing them) up to that point - save it in case you ever need it again.

IMHO it's best to store User data on a different partition(s) than the "C" drive.
I use the "C" drive for the OS and all installed programs.
I store all User data on other (not C) partitions, I use W7 Libraries for this.
With this approach I can backup/restore my "C" drive, or my Data partitions independently.

If my "C" (OS drive) screws up for any reason, I can restore that without affecting any of my User data.
If I find my User data is "infected" I could restore that without needing to re-install or restore the OS.

I'm running Win 7 systems that were originally installed apx. 4 years ago without any problems.
My TEST box is a triple boot with a XP 32 Bit OS that I have no idea when I originally installed it.
I only keep it to help people I know that still have XP - sometimes I need to test things there...

If you keep clean backups offline, they won't get infected if you get infected now...

I create System Backup Images at least monthly, before Patch Tuesday updates.
For my test systems that I am playing with I often create many more backups, so I can quickly back out whatever/whenever...

Layback Bear · Oct 19, 2013

I would recommend keep your backup on a separate drive. In case the drive Windows 7 (C) is on goes bad your backup will be available on the separate drive.

Double · Oct 19, 2013

Layback Bear said:
Yes pictures can and have been infected including Desktop pictures.
You monitor displays in pixels and that is what you see.
The operating system and/or programs you use to display that picture sees code and that is what gets infected.

Are you trying to say that pictures can be infected, but the system can't be infected by the pictures??

Layback Bear said:
You can use Windows 7 inbuilt back up ability or you can use a 3rd party program. This is how it's done in Windows 7.
By Brink.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/663-backup-complete-computer-create-image-backup.html

Are there any recommended 3rd party programs available? I was hoping to shoot a system backup to the cloud. I've tried Windows 7 backup in the past, but it just wasn't my ideal way of doing things. I hate feeling tethered to hardware that could go bad any second, including portable hard drives. I'm particularly interested in backing up applications (and possibly their settings?) so that I don't have to install them individually each time a factory restore is done.

Layback Bear said:
No every computer in the world is not doomed. That is why we use security programs and the method used while on line to help protect our computers.

method?

Layback Bear said:
Just make sure what ever you want to backup has been scanned with your security programs before backing up.

Okay

DavidW7ncus said:
IMHO, you should not need "to do a hard reset (reinstall) about every 8-12 months" or ever again if you get a pristine clean install and create a system backup image and keep it offline.

Worst case, 12 months later you could restore that image and start from there...

If you do it right, you can then create another image that will include all Windows updates (after installing them) up to that point - save it in case you ever need it again.

I see what you are saying. My only concerns regarding that, would be how different things might look a month or so after the backup. Files change rapidly on my machine, nothing ever really stays the same.. especially settings overall. Now that I think about it, I'm a little concerned about how a restore would affect the files in my synced Dropbox folder and Google Chrome?

DavidW7ncus said:
IMHO it's best to store User data on a different partition(s) than the "C" drive.
I use the "C" drive for the OS and all installed programs.
I store all User data on other (not C) partitions, I use W7 Libraries for this.
With this approach I can backup/restore my "C" drive, or my Data partitions independently.

If my "C" (OS drive) screws up for any reason, I can restore that without affecting any of my User data.
If I find my User data is "infected" I could restore that without needing to re-install or restore the OS.

I'm running Win 7 systems that were originally installed apx. 4 years ago without any problems.
My TEST box is a triple boot with a XP 32 Bit OS that I have no idea when I originally installed it.
I only keep it to help people I know that still have XP - sometimes I need to test things there...

If you keep clean backups offline, they won't get infected if you get infected now...

I create System Backup Images at least monthly, before Patch Tuesday updates.
For my test systems that I am playing with I often create many more backups, so I can quickly back out whatever/whenever...

Layback Bear said:

I would recommend keep your backup on a separate drive. In case the drive Windows 7 (C) is on goes bad your backup will be available on the separate drive.

Click to expand...

What about backing up to the cloud? :party:

Also, you mentioned a difference between the OS data and User data, these can be backed up separately? I've pretty much taken care of the user side of things with Dropbox, but would love to backup apps and possibly the Windows Updates (or OS).

Layback Bear · Oct 19, 2013

I don't use Clouds because I have control of things when I keep them in house. Some do both in house and Cloud backups.
There are many ways to do the backup. You will have to just try things and see which ones you like the best.

Lady Fitzgerald · Oct 19, 2013

Double said:
...

Layback Bear said:

I would recommend keep your backup on a separate drive. In case the drive Windows 7 (C) is on goes bad your backup will be available on the separate drive.

Click to expand...

what about cloud storage?

Depends on what you mean by cloud storage. If you are referring to free storage sites, no! Free cloud storage is notoriously ephemeral; they have keen known to disappear with little or no warning, taking your data with them. If you are referring to paid storage sites or paid backup plans, such as Carbonite or Crashplan, those are much better.

You should never depend on just one backup. Backups are no more secure than the media they are stored on. HDDs can fail or be stolen. Cloud backups can get lost. By having more than one backup, you reduce the chances of losing any of your data. Also keep in mind that cloud backups are slow to send and recover. If you have very much data backed up, it could take several days to several weeks (or even months) to make the initial backup; the same applies to downloading backed up data.

I keep two identical backups at home, one on each of two HDDs, and a third backup on a HDD stored in my safe deposit box at my credit union (which gets swapped out with a fresh backup no less than once a month). I also use Carbonite to keep a data only backup online. Since the backup in the safe deposit box can be up to one month behind and downloading all my data from Carbonite could take weeks to months, in the event I lose both of my local backups, I can recover most of my data quickly using the HDD in the safe deposit box and get the rest from Carbonite, which won't take as long since there will be less to download.

I have two backup HDDs at home so, if one should fail, I would still have the other one. I have a 3.5" hot swap bay built into my computer I use for making the backups. If the internal data drive should ever die, all I have to do is disconnect it and plug in one of the backup drives and use it until I can replace the failed drive. I would still have the other HDD backing up the one in use.

Double · Oct 25, 2013

Lady Fitzgerald said:
Double said:

...

Layback Bear said:

I would recommend keep your backup on a separate drive. In case the drive Windows 7 (C) is on goes bad your backup will be available on the separate drive.

Click to expand...

what about cloud storage?

Click to expand...

Depends on what you mean by cloud storage. If you are referring to free storage sites, no! Free cloud storage is notoriously ephemeral; they have keen known to disappear with little or no warning, taking your data with them. If you are referring to paid storage sites or paid backup plans, such as Carbonite or Crashplan, those are much better.

You should never depend on just one backup. Backups are no more secure than the media they are stored on. HDDs can fail or be stolen. Cloud backups can get lost. By having more than one backup, you reduce the chances of losing any of your data. Also keep in mind that cloud backups are slow to send and recover. If you have very much data backed up, it could take several days to several weeks (or even months) to make the initial backup; the same applies to downloading backed up data.

I keep two identical backups at home, one on each of two HDDs, and a third backup on a HDD stored in my safe deposit box at my credit union (which gets swapped out with a fresh backup no less than once a month). I also use Carbonite to keep a data only backup online. Since the backup in the safe deposit box can be up to one month behind and downloading all my data from Carbonite could take weeks to months, in the event I lose both of my local backups, I can recover most of my data quickly using the HDD in the safe deposit box and get the rest from Carbonite, which won't take as long since there will be less to download.

I have two backup HDDs at home so, if one should fail, I would still have the other one. I have a 3.5" hot swap bay built into my computer I use for making the backups. If the internal data drive should ever die, all I have to do is disconnect it and plug in one of the backup drives and use it until I can replace the failed drive. I would still have the other HDD backing up the one in use.

You are very smart with how you do things! I tried Carbonite but couldn't swallow the pricetag. Having multiple backups is a bit paranoid in my eyes, but I guess you can never be too safe! :devil: I try to take advantage of the cloud any chance I can, and try not to carry a whole lot on my system except apps. It makes moving to a different system much easier.

I use Dropbox and Google for storage; Youtube to store videos (in private), Google Drive to store documents, Google Music to store music, and Dropbox to store pictures :party:

Lady Fitzgerald · Oct 25, 2013

Double said:
...I tried Carbonite but couldn't swallow the pricetag...

Carbonite's only $60/year; that's only $5/month. Surely you have some kind of vice you can steal $5/month from.

Double said:
...Having multiple backups is a bit paranoid in my eyes, but I guess you can never be too safe!...

Keep in mind all media can (and usually will) fail. Having your data in only one place is just asking to lose it. The more copies you have and the farther apart it is kept, the less likely you will lose any. I've seen too many post from people saying their HDD died or they accidentally deleted their data and want to know how to recover it. The sad fact is the odds are against recovering any of their data, let alone all of it. Professional data recovery can cost hundreds to thousands of dollars, far more than proper backups cost. How much you spend for backing up your data should be determined by how valuable your data is is to you, how much it would cost to replace it, and/or if it can be replaced.

Double said:
...I use Dropbox and Google for storage; Youtube to store videos (in private), Google Drive to store documents, Google Music to store music, and Dropbox to store pictures

You kinda have the right idea by having multiple cloud sites to keep your data—it minimizes the amount of data any one site can lose—but, if you kept all, or, at least, more, of your data in each site, you would be much better protected. Of the sites you listed, Google scares me the most; they are notorious for discontinuing services, even popular ones.

Victor S · Oct 27, 2013

Double said:
Any advice on these subjects would be appreciated

Here's my solution to making clean, infection-free system images.
I always restore my last image before making a new one.
Since I've been using the OS contained in that image for years, I know it's not infected.
Been 100% successful with that.

backup solutions, and infection concerns regarding a restore?

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