New
#1
How to Restore once I use copy files, or disk image=still confused
Hi everybody!
Its me again (XP VM USER) with a new thread which is a followup question so its a new direction from the original thread here:::
Need a new Backup & Storage program
ignatzatsonic gave me great advice in Post # 41 which I quote in its entirety below (but has left me confused) and since it was going off the main topic of choosing Backup programs, according to Windows Seven Posting rules, I've given it new life as a thread of its own:
First, repeating Post #41 by ignatzatsonic:
Now I'm going to quote pieces of the above and write comments to ask questions , ok?
Yes! Thanks for that! I really have lots of questions.... and have read many many books, other web sites (many from XP so inform me if I'm confusing XP OS abilities with Windows 7 ones, maybe I'm not fully certified in using Windows 7 (still! not yet!) so many things might be different and I may be stating something here that is obvious...Differentiate in your mind between “backing up” your personal data and backing up Windows/applications. “Backing up” is a generic term, typically ill-defined.
Yes! I am confused by all the terms of backing up data vs cloning or disk imaging my Hard Drives (as my prior 20 years using Norton Ghost by Symantec has been my main experience...
I've never ever restored by myself from Norton Ghost---would not know what I'm doing anyway.
So confused... read on please....
OK! Easy enough to understand what you are saying here... I just have to do this with Windows programs....Back up personal data WITHOUT using Macrium, Norton, Acronis, or any similar product. No clone, no image. Nothing of the kind. Just an outright copy as if you had used the mouse and dragged the files to another drive. Do this either with the mouse periodically or with any of several programs designed for that purpose specifically (Syncback, Synctoy, Free File Sync, Second Copy, etc). If you have 300 GB of personal data, you will need 300 GB of space on your external drive.
I've actually been told to do this process with Mac/Apple computers.. .. I just drag their "user" icon over to the External Drive and it does it automatically, but then again that is Apple [older Apple, I can't afford their new one which has something called "time machine" on it which I assume acts like Windows Restore points but saves everything (data and programs).] ... Again never restored back from those savings, so I have absolutely no idea that I've done it successfully, just that the techs on phone/store have looked at my saved files and say they are ok---I just make a new fiole with new file date every so often.
Which I assume I'd be doing for Windows above in that instructions... just for the Data parts alone, just saving all the data....
But
I'm confused! Here it comes...
Question Now that I've saved all the valuable data... how do I use/ see it if I lose the original Hard Drive with all my hours of effort/phone calls for conflicts/installed with product keys, etc programs on there???????
The response starts below I think to that question.....
YES ! I get this , I think.... all applications and entire Windows system files gets copied using a disk image.....Back up Windows and applications with Macrium using an image, not a clone. Repeat, not a clone. They are different. If you, for whatever reason, can’t or won’t put your data on a separate partition, then this image (of C alone) WILL in fact include your data even though you may have backed it up separately as in the previous paragraph.
I've done so on one of my older XPs using Acronis, so that does complete disk images (and again because I'm so scared of doing something wrong each time I do this, I also used it to make a complete clone and keep/update/maintain the two of each type on two separate Hard Drives in case one is No good (and I don't trust auto-verified programs).
But
Now here comes the confusion, ready?
Yes, I've read the tutorial several times.. I thought I'm somewhat knowledgeable about these things (more than average joe in street person) but I'm just more and more confused by what I read, compared to what I always have been taught... (books/tutorials/experience)I assume you have read the Macrium tutorial on site and are aware that image files must be formally “restored” to make a drive bootable and are largely useless otherwise. Unrestored, they are just a file.
Question If image files must be "restored" to make it bootable, what about the MBR? (Does it still exist in Windows 7?)
Isn't that part of where the Windows registers places all the pathways that allow programs to operate and access the data you have told me to save it so well by just "copying" the data (like I do with Apple) over to another Hard Drive???
I'm confused!........
Questions Isn't there some "restoration" operation that I must pay money (something I have zero of), to a computer "expert" online or at a store, to physically link the restored the files back into the computer so they can be read by my computer's program after a BSOD Crash or Virus attack, or total loss of the computer laptop? (its a laptop, worried about that more than a desktop which stays AT HOME and does not go outside. But that is the whole reason why relative has laptop.... to carry their work (and unfortunately everything else in their life) outside the home!!!
But back to the quotes and my questions.... too many so far I know...
Lets go on----- here it comes.
Greater confusion!!
(but this is confusion actually comes from years and years of saving files in frustration!!!)
So I hope you can all help settle this here (maybe this long posting wasn't written [and edited and re-written edited] perfectly, if so let me know........ and let me know what the following should have said instead)
(Otherwise ignatzatsonic has been very smart and wonderful in raising all of these items/issues for me to ask about! still thanking ignatzatsonic, hope you don't mind the slight criticism there)
Now here comes the problems!!I’m guessing your personal data is more important to you than your Windows installation and programs. Imaging or cloning are NOT repeat NOT foolproof, whether full or incremental. For that reason, I would not trust imaging or cloning to be a highly reliable method of backing up personal data. Why would you want to ever put the complication of imaging or cloning between you and your data backup? That’s a rhetorical question. You seem highly desirous of high reliability and (near) certainty, so I don’t understand why you would bother with imaging for something very important to you. All imaging can do is save you time. The time needed to do a clean Windows installation and reinstall your programs. But it’s fallible.
My relatives'/mine personal data and hard worked program files saved over hours/days/weeks of slaving labor is worth far more than entire computer!! SO where do I put it???
The "Windows installation and all [Microsoft and Third Party] programs" are valuable too!!!
Why??
Because I can't get them again...
Right! The place that I got it from OWNS the original disks. They have the license codes for many installations..... they were installed as "student" programs and I was given a "student" license to use many many programs FREE, absolutely free!
Why?
The companies hope after slaving over learning curves, learning how to use these programs (i.e. advanced word processors (prior named Aldus Pagemaker/now named Adobe Pagemaker no longer sold, only cloud version sold) for desktop publishing/ OCR ABBYY Finereader/ AutoDesk/AutoCAD, Architecture/Engineering/ and even Lawyer programs too.) they hope when you get employed and are making lots of money using these programs, you will go out and buy for money.. their latest programs....
Sorry, that has not happened.
So what I have is this and other computers and data files filled with information that ONLY the original program can open again! You can't cheat, you can't read the files using view or preview or anything else [free or low cost imitation programs] purposely..... it all appears as gibberish!!! You must open the data files using the exact version/model/product key of the program that created it... its proprietary saved under the program's own items...
So if I were to lose the ORIGINAL installed programs.. I have neither the ORIGINAL program disks, nor passwords nor the money to buy the latest version (which of course will read and update older saved files)
So in other words, without these programs, there is NOTHING in the world that can read all my saved data... so why am I even bothering saving it??? If I can't ever afford to upgrade...
I have hope one day I'll have the money to upgrade, but not now, and not for foreseeable future... but in foreseeable future, [between then and now, just in using the computer, I could lose it all (as I mentioned in other posting various new problems may cause this to occur).... and no one can fix it then..
Lets do a simpler, real, concrete example....
Starting over....
in case that was too much to take in....
I have Word Perfect Office 12 from 2004 (yes that year) I paid legitimately $600 for that suite (no free student edition there, and I don't like "Word" and never really got the hang of that either) (anyway Microsoft Office has its own currently high price for its Office suite too.......)
Now if I save on an external drive (using whatever copy by FFS or disk image), every single WordPerfect Document, Quattro Pro spreadsheet, Presentations 12 /slide shows, etc. that I've ever made using these programs... and if from reading the above quote...
I STILL have to "reinstall Windows" and "reinstall your programs"........ and I can't do it!
Why not? (I had an accident with one save on XP OS so I know and tried it and failed, that is how---let me explain)
WordPerfect installation discs includes free 20 fonts and basic stuff to get you started.... but you can download everything else the program needs (hundreds of fonts/artwork libraries) FOR FREE, using their website which program contacts automatically when it installs.... Well of course I'm sure I don't have to tell you as you know what is going to happen... after 10 years or so they took down the Word Perfect Office 12 suite 2004 website and want us to pay for their (I think its called X7 for version 17) Program and website to get all the downloads and permission by product keys to use their program....(I used professional edition, so current professional edition costs $449 at their store (cheaper upgrade version from 12 is not possible):
Corel APAC Online Store - WordPerfect Office X7
I'm certain I could get it for less, but that is one program out of several hundred I'd lose similiar to it due to same problem... they have all "aged out" since I had the money to buy these programs, so I need to keep using the ones I have)...
When I tried to use all my hard typed items on a similar program, lacking the fonts, free (copyright free) artwork, etc etc all from Corel company's Website for Word Perfect, you know what you get.... either rows of "boxes" instead of the missing font characters---I can't read the words....I typed as the boxes are EMPTY!!! So are EMPTY all of the pictures I modified and edited and enlarged or shrunk, on the various documents (pictures including "arrows" a lot, which are now all lost and cannot be duplicated even if I have a printed page----would take me weeks per document....years to redo it all..... without a working Word Perfect newer edition with its same fonts, etc...
So now you see.. all of the saved data!!! all of the words I've written... all of the spreadsheets, that cannot be opened by look-alike free-ware (I've done that and tried and failed) it does not open the way I worked to have everything all done so its useless and destroyed data.....
(For example, another common problem trying to read data not using Word Perfect Professional Edition, imagine all the tab stops are gone from a book length document.... its RUINED!!! even if I got it in Times Roman text for some of my documents, unfortunately all of the paragraphs/ tabs, indentations for quoted materials are ALL GONE AND RUINED forever!) Sorry I get emotional when thinking that could happen to me.... I spent too long creating/doing all these things!!!
So again, no money, no new WordPerfect and no way to get into the program or get the disks which I own, and the passwords which I own ! to work again!
Noted: this situation is unlike the "student" editions problem that also occurs and mentioned above.... (hope I'm not confusing as I will have many many problems) which were only given to me by a one time installer passwords, etc so I can't give them to anyone else, or share the works via a file, ever ever!! and cheat the company out of their thousands of dollars for each license (each year) for those more expensive programs).
Sort of a Question Given all these problems.. what I need is some way to get ALL the programs saved as they are, without having to reinstall them should I lose windows due to BSOD, or something happens to the laptop, etc....
Having the data is just half the problem... I need the old old programs as they are already installed in relative's computer (their programs too, its complicated, but same issue, no installation disk, the educational institution has the "one" master installation disks, and we no longer have access to those VERY OLD disks in case the program or computer does crash or BSOD etc for Windows to reinstall them.
I still like the idea presented of copying everything and am awaiting the new 2TB HDD external to arrive so I can do that.... but then its just a copy.. no way no how as to my knowledge to get Windows 7 System or all of the Programs to "restore" back to a damaged HDD/Laptop.... without "reinstalling" the programs so the pathways and data can be located and locked in step with the program to access the proprietary encrypted /saved data... The only way it works is on the original installation.
In my primitive understanding.... If I could just copy Windows 7 and all the programs and restore them back unaided to any empty drive, well then anyone could have done that!
Of course you realize that big companies like Microsoft with Windows as well as all other expensive programs of those other companies would never sell another program to anyone ever again as we would all just pass "disk images" of the "pirated" (I guess that's how they do it anyway)..... restored programs back and forth on other people's computers and computer hard drives, making hundreds of thousands of copies! (remember I don't have all the codes or product keys for these programs, so of course I know somewhere there is a website checking for pirated/illegal copies of these items, this is not what I'm saying I want to do. I'm the original owner, (but as a student, or very very old installed programs) and I'm using same one product key, but it was a one time installation only product key not a multiple use product key, get it now?
Ok, I'm going to post this (after correcting as much as I can to shorten it)....
Thanks for all who have read this far, I appreciated it and your efforts to help me!
XP VM USER (sorry got stuck with name on my first visit here)
Last edited by XP VM User; 29 Jan 2015 at 12:31.