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  1. Posts : 3,118
    Win7 Home Premium x64 SP1
       #561

    Good going mate, That didn't take you long
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  2. Posts : 7,470
    Windows 10 Home Premium 64bit sp1
       #562

    ganjiry said:
    Good going mate, That didn't take you long
    It didn't but, I am sad I can't use Ghz values anymore I feel like selling these off and getting some other cards like some 780's or wait to see how the new 9970 performs
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  3. Posts : 3,118
    Win7 Home Premium x64 SP1
       #563

    Aaaah don't be sad
    I'd wait untill AMD have shown their cards chap, If they don't come up with something to compete with the 780 then atleast prices may drop again.
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  4. Posts : 24,479
    Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
       #564

    Hi, I'd like some explanation about FPS. On LCD and LED monitors the refresh rate is commonly 60 Hz or 120 Hz, so 60 or 120 times per second that the monitor can show a new frame. How does a FPS higher than these be helpful?
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  5. Posts : 7,470
    Windows 10 Home Premium 64bit sp1
       #565

    Britton30 said:
    Hi, I'd like some explanation about FPS. On LCD and LED monitors the refresh rate is commonly 60 Hz or 120 Hz, so 60 or 120 times per second that the monitor can show a new frame. How does a FPS higher than these be helpful?

    Difference between 60Hz and 120Hz LCD TV

    The monitor I use right now http://www1.viewsonic.com/products/d...2753mh-led.htm

    well I think the article sums it up as in response time and picture quality and even if you have a 60 MHz model it can have a good response time and picture size make it work just as good
    Last edited by Solarstarshines; 19 Sep 2013 at 15:22.
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  6. Posts : 6,077
    Windows 7 Professional 64 bit
       #566

    Britton30 said:
    Hi, I'd like some explanation about FPS. On LCD and LED monitors the refresh rate is commonly 60 Hz or 120 Hz, so 60 or 120 times per second that the monitor can show a new frame. How does a FPS higher than these be helpful?
    Apart from benchmarking I always lock mine at 60 fps in games with vsync Gary to avoid screen tearing.
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  7. Posts : 13,576
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       #567

    Britton30 said:
    Hi, I'd like some explanation about FPS. On LCD and LED monitors the refresh rate is commonly 60 Hz or 120 Hz, so 60 or 120 times per second that the monitor can show a new frame. How does a FPS higher than these be helpful?
    It just helps with the overall motion of the game, I`m sure you`ve watched a movie on your pc ( not a dvd ) and you`ve seen it stutter and it sux, same thing with a game, the more fps the better it should look, play and feel

    But you`re right Gary, the Hz really does affect the outcome, I just bought a 50" Insignia that does 120 Hz. Now apparently ( I`m told ) tv doesn`t broadcast in 120 Hz, but believe me, sports look way better on the 50" then on my Sony Bravia 40" 60 Hz LCD.

    And as far as the tv goes, motion pictures are shot at 24 fps, which goes into 120 evenly, but does not go into 60 evenly. That`s why you should always try to get a 120 Hz hdtv. It will just be better.

    Bye the way, I see a new nVidia driver is available 327.23, I say if it ain`t broke, leave it alone.
    Last edited by AddRAM; 19 Sep 2013 at 19:03.
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  8. Posts : 24,479
    Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
       #568

    Thanks everyone, I think I'm getting it now. Brian our US TV is broadcast at 24FPS which is NTSC, Most of Europe uses PAL, I don't know what their standard is.
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  9. Posts : 13,576
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       #569

    All American TV, both analog and digital, cable and OTA, is at a frame rate of 59.94 fps. Commonly, it's called 60 fps.
    It was originally 60 fps, but many years ago they squeezed some extra data into the space between frames lowering it to 59.94.

    In the motion picture industry, where traditional film stock is used, the industry standard filming and projection formats are 24 frames per second (fps). Historically, 25 fps was used in some European countries. Shooting at a slower frame rate would create fast motion when projected, while shooting at a frame rate higher than 24 fps would create slow motion when projected. Other examples of historical experiments in frame rates that were not widely accepted were Maxivision 48 and Showscan, developed by 2001: A Space Odyssey special effects creator Douglas Trumbull.

    There are three main frame rate standards in the TV and digital cinema business: 24p, 25p, and 30p. However, there are many variations on these as well as newer emerging standards.
    24p is a progressive format and is now widely adopted by those planning on transferring a video signal to film. Film and video makers use 24p even if their productions are not going to be transferred to film, simply because of the on-screen "look" of the (low) frame rate which matches native film. When transferred to NTSC television, the rate is effectively slowed to 23.976 FPS (24×1000÷1001 to be exact), and when transferred to PAL or SECAM it is sped up to 25 FPS. 35 mm movie cameras use a standard exposure rate of 24 FPS, though many cameras offer rates of 23.976 FPS for NTSC television and 25 FPS for PAL/SECAM. The 24 FPS rate became the de facto standard for sound motion pictures in the mid-1920s.[4] Practically all hand-drawn animation is designed to be played at 24 FPS. Actually hand-drawing 24 unique frames per second "1`s" is costly. Even in big budget films usually hand-draw animation shooting on "2's" (one hand-drawn frame is shown twice, so only 12 unique frames per second) and some animation is even drawn on "4's" (one hand-drawn frame is shown four times, so only six unique frames per second).
    25p is a progressive format and runs 25 progressive frames per second. This frame rate derives from the PAL television standard of 50i (or 50 interlaced fields per second). Film and Television companies use this rate in 50 Hz regions for direct compatibility with television field and frame rates. Conversion for 60 Hz countries is enabled by slowing down the media to 24p then converting to 60 Hz systems using pulldown. While 25p captures half the temporal resolution or motion that normal 50i PAL registers, it yields a higher vertical spatial resolution per frame. Like 24p, 25p is often used to achieve "cine"-look, albeit with virtually the same motion artifacts. It is also better suited to progressive-scan output (e.g., on LCD displays, computer monitors and projectors) because the interlacing is absent.
    30p is a progressive format and produces video at 30 frames per second. Progressive (noninterlaced) scanning mimics a film camera's frame-by-frame image capture. The effects of inter-frame judder are less noticeable than 24p yet retains a cinematic-like appearance. Shooting video in 30p mode gives no interlace artifacts but can introduce judder on image movement and on some camera pans. The widescreen film process Todd-AO used this frame rate in 1954–1956.
    48p is a progressive format and is currently being trialed in the film industry. At twice the traditional rate of 24p, this frame rate attempts to reduce motion blur and flicker found in films. Director James Cameron stated his intention to film the two sequels to his film Avatar at a higher frame rate than 24 frames per second, in order to add a heightened sense of reality. The first film to be filmed at 48 FPS was The Hobbit, a decision made by its director Peter Jackson. At a preview screening at CinemaCon, the audience's reaction was mixed after being shown some of the film's footage at 48p, with some arguing that the feel of the footage was too lifelike (thus breaking the suspension of disbelief).
    50i is an interlaced format and is the standard video field rate per second for PAL and SECAM television.
    60i is an interlaced format and is the standard video field rate per second for NTSC television (e.g., in the US), whether from a broadcast signal, DVD, or home camcorder. This interlaced field rate was developed separately by Farnsworth and Zworykin in 1934,[11] and was part of the NTSC television standards mandated by the FCC in 1941. When NTSC color was introduced in 1953, the older rate of 60 fields per second was reduced by a factor of 1000/1001 to avoid interference between the chroma subcarrier and the broadcast sound carrier. (Hence the usual designation "29.97 fps" = 30 frames(60 fields)
    50p/60p is a progressive format and is used in high-end HDTV systems. While it is not technically part of the ATSC or DVB broadcast standards yet, reports suggest that higher progressive frame rates will be a feature of the next-generation high-definition television broadcast standards. In Europe, the EBU considers 1080p50 the next step future proof system for TV broadcasts and is encouraging broadcasters to upgrade their equipment for the future.
    72p is a progressive format and is currently in experimental stages. Major institutions such as Snell have demonstrated 720p72 pictures as a result of earlier analogue experiments, where 768 line television at 75 FPS looked subjectively better than 1150 line 50 FPS progressive pictures with higher shutter speeds available (and a corresponding lower data rate). Modern cameras such as the Red One can use this frame rate to produce slow motion replays at 24 FPS. Douglas Trumbull, who undertook experiments with different frame rates that led to the Showscan film format, found that emotional impact peaked at 72 FPS for viewers. 72 FPS is the maximum rate available in the WMV video file format.
    120p (120.00 Hz exactly) is a progressive format and is standardized for UHDTV by the ITU-R BT.2020 recommendation. It will be the single global "double-precision" frame rate for UHDTV (instead of using 100 Hz for PAL-based countries and 119.88 Hz for NTSC-based countries).
    300 FPS, interpolated 300 FPS along with other high frame rates, have been tested by BBC Research for use in sports broadcasts. 300 FPS can be converted to both 50 and 60 FPS transmission formats without major issues.

    PAL vs. NTSC
    PAL has 576 visible line compared with 480 lines with NTSC, meaning that PAL has a 20% higher resolution. Both PAL and NTSC have a higher frame rate than film, 24 frames per second, offering flicker free motion. Most TV output for PAL and NTSC user Interlaced frames meaning that even lines update on one frame and odd lines update on the next frame. Interlacing frames gives a smoother motion with half the frame rate, the downside is with scene changes. NTSC is used with a fps of 60i or 30p whereas PAL generally uses 50i or 25p; both use a high enough frame rate to give the illusion of fluid motion. This is due to the fact that NTSC is generally used in countries with a Utility frequency of 60-Hz and PAL in countries with 50Hz, although there are many exceptions. PAL has a closer frame rate to film and is less likely to suffer from issues caused during frame rate conversion. Artefacts caused by frame rate conversion required when video has been recorded at the wrong rate for the display can be severe.
    NTSC receivers have a tint control to perform colour correction manually. If this is not adjusted correctly, the colours may be faulty. The PAL standard automatically cancels hue errors by phase reversal, so a tint control is unnecessary. Chrominance phase errors in the PAL system are cancelled out using a 1H delay line resulting in lower saturation, which is much less noticeable to the eye than NTSC hue errors.
    However, the alternation of colour information—Hanover bars—can lead to picture grain on pictures with extreme phase errors even in PAL systems, if decoder circuits are misaligned or use the simplified decoders of early designs (typically to overcome royalty restrictions). In most cases such extreme phase shifts do not occur. This effect will usually be observed when the transmission path is poor, typically in built up areas or where the terrain is unfavourable. The effect is more noticeable on UHF than VHF signals as VHF signals tend to be more robust.
    In the early 1970s some Japanese set manufacturers developed decoding systems to avoid paying royalties to Telefunken. The Telefunken license covered any decoding method that relied on the alternating subcarrier phase to reduce phase errors. This included very basic PAL decoders that relied on the human eye to average out the odd/even line phase errors. One solution was to use a 1H analog delay line to allow decoding of only the odd or even lines. For example, the chrominance on odd lines would be switched directly through to the decoder and also be stored in the delay line. Then, on even lines, the stored odd line would be decoded again. This method effectively converted PAL to NTSC. Such systems suffered hue errors and other problems inherent in NTSC and required the addition of a manual hue control.
    PAL and NTSC have slightly divergent colour spaces, but the colour decoder differences here are ignored.
    Last edited by AddRAM; 20 Sep 2013 at 20:53.
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 1,486
    Windows 10 Pro
       #570

    AddRAM said:
    All American TV, both analog and digital, cable and OTA, is at a frame rate of 59.94 fps. Commonly, it's called 60 fps.
    It was originally 60 fps, but many yeaers ago they squeezed some extra data into the space between frames lowering it to 59.94.

    In the motion picture industry, where traditional film stock is used, the industry standard filming and projection formats are 24 frames per second (fps). Historically, 25 fps was used in some European countries. Shooting at a slower frame rate would create fast motion when projected, while shooting at a frame rate higher than 24 fps would create slow motion when projected. Other examples of historical experiments in frame rates that were not widely accepted were Maxivision 48 and Showscan, developed by 2001: A Space Odyssey special effects creator Douglas Trumbull.

    There are three main frame rate standards in the TV and digital cinema business: 24p, 25p, and 30p. However, there are many variations on these as well as newer emerging standards.
    24p is a progressive format and is now widely adopted by those planning on transferring a video signal to film. Film and video makers use 24p even if their productions are not going to be transferred to film, simply because of the on-screen "look" of the (low) frame rate which matches native film. When transferred to NTSC television, the rate is effectively slowed to 23.976 FPS (24×1000÷1001 to be exact), and when transferred to PAL or SECAM it is sped up to 25 FPS. 35 mm movie cameras use a standard exposure rate of 24 FPS, though many cameras offer rates of 23.976 FPS for NTSC television and 25 FPS for PAL/SECAM. The 24 FPS rate became the de facto standard for sound motion pictures in the mid-1920s.[4] Practically all hand-drawn animation is designed to be played at 24 FPS. Actually hand-drawing 24 unique frames per second "1`s" is costly. Even in big budget films usually hand-draw animation shooting on "2's" (one hand-drawn frame is shown twice, so only 12 unique frames per second) and some animation is even drawn on "4's" (one hand-drawn frame is shown four times, so only six unique frames per second).
    25p is a progressive format and runs 25 progressive frames per second. This frame rate derives from the PAL television standard of 50i (or 50 interlaced fields per second). Film and Television companies use this rate in 50 Hz regions for direct compatibility with television field and frame rates. Conversion for 60 Hz countries is enabled by slowing down the media to 24p then converting to 60 Hz systems using pulldown. While 25p captures half the temporal resolution or motion that normal 50i PAL registers, it yields a higher vertical spatial resolution per frame. Like 24p, 25p is often used to achieve "cine"-look, albeit with virtually the same motion artifacts. It is also better suited to progressive-scan output (e.g., on LCD displays, computer monitors and projectors) because the interlacing is absent.
    30p is a progressive format and produces video at 30 frames per second. Progressive (noninterlaced) scanning mimics a film camera's frame-by-frame image capture. The effects of inter-frame judder are less noticeable than 24p yet retains a cinematic-like appearance. Shooting video in 30p mode gives no interlace artifacts but can introduce judder on image movement and on some camera pans. The widescreen film process Todd-AO used this frame rate in 1954–1956.
    48p is a progressive format and is currently being trialed in the film industry. At twice the traditional rate of 24p, this frame rate attempts to reduce motion blur and flicker found in films. Director James Cameron stated his intention to film the two sequels to his film Avatar at a higher frame rate than 24 frames per second, in order to add a heightened sense of reality. The first film to be filmed at 48 FPS was The Hobbit, a decision made by its director Peter Jackson. At a preview screening at CinemaCon, the audience's reaction was mixed after being shown some of the film's footage at 48p, with some arguing that the feel of the footage was too lifelike (thus breaking the suspension of disbelief).
    50i is an interlaced format and is the standard video field rate per second for PAL and SECAM television.
    60i is an interlaced format and is the standard video field rate per second for NTSC television (e.g., in the US), whether from a broadcast signal, DVD, or home camcorder. This interlaced field rate was developed separately by Farnsworth and Zworykin in 1934,[11] and was part of the NTSC television standards mandated by the FCC in 1941. When NTSC color was introduced in 1953, the older rate of 60 fields per second was reduced by a factor of 1000/1001 to avoid interference between the chroma subcarrier and the broadcast sound carrier. (Hence the usual designation "29.97 fps" = 30 frames(60 fields)
    50p/60p is a progressive format and is used in high-end HDTV systems. While it is not technically part of the ATSC or DVB broadcast standards yet, reports suggest that higher progressive frame rates will be a feature of the next-generation high-definition television broadcast standards. In Europe, the EBU considers 1080p50 the next step future proof system for TV broadcasts and is encouraging broadcasters to upgrade their equipment for the future.
    72p is a progressive format and is currently in experimental stages. Major institutions such as Snell have demonstrated 720p72 pictures as a result of earlier analogue experiments, where 768 line television at 75 FPS looked subjectively better than 1150 line 50 FPS progressive pictures with higher shutter speeds available (and a corresponding lower data rate). Modern cameras such as the Red One can use this frame rate to produce slow motion replays at 24 FPS. Douglas Trumbull, who undertook experiments with different frame rates that led to the Showscan film format, found that emotional impact peaked at 72 FPS for viewers. 72 FPS is the maximum rate available in the WMV video file format.
    120p (120.00 Hz exactly) is a progressive format and is standardized for UHDTV by the ITU-R BT.2020 recommendation. It will be the single global "double-precision" frame rate for UHDTV (instead of using 100 Hz for PAL-based countries and 119.88 Hz for NTSC-based countries).
    300 FPS, interpolated 300 FPS along with other high frame rates, have been tested by BBC Research for use in sports broadcasts. 300 FPS can be converted to both 50 and 60 FPS transmission formats without major issues.

    PAL vs. NTSC
    PAL has 576 visible line compared with 480 lines with NTSC, meaning that PAL has a 20% higher resolution. Both PAL and NTSC have a higher frame rate than film, 24 frames per second, offering flicker free motion. Most TV output for PAL and NTSC user Interlaced frames meaning that even lines update on one frame and odd lines update on the next frame. Interlacing frames gives a smoother motion with half the frame rate, the downside is with scene changes. NTSC is used with a fps of 60i or 30p whereas PAL generally uses 50i or 25p; both use a high enough frame rate to give the illusion of fluid motion. This is due to the fact that NTSC is generally used in countries with a Utility frequency of 60-Hz and PAL in countries with 50Hz, although there are many exceptions. PAL has a closer frame rate to film and is less likely to suffer from issues caused during frame rate conversion. Artefacts caused by frame rate conversion required when video has been recorded at the wrong rate for the display can be severe.
    NTSC receivers have a tint control to perform colour correction manually. If this is not adjusted correctly, the colours may be faulty. The PAL standard automatically cancels hue errors by phase reversal, so a tint control is unnecessary. Chrominance phase errors in the PAL system are cancelled out using a 1H delay line resulting in lower saturation, which is much less noticeable to the eye than NTSC hue errors.
    However, the alternation of colour information—Hanover bars—can lead to picture grain on pictures with extreme phase errors even in PAL systems, if decoder circuits are misaligned or use the simplified decoders of early designs (typically to overcome royalty restrictions). In most cases such extreme phase shifts do not occur. This effect will usually be observed when the transmission path is poor, typically in built up areas or where the terrain is unfavourable. The effect is more noticeable on UHF than VHF signals as VHF signals tend to be more robust.
    In the early 1970s some Japanese set manufacturers developed decoding systems to avoid paying royalties to Telefunken. The Telefunken license covered any decoding method that relied on the alternating subcarrier phase to reduce phase errors. This included very basic PAL decoders that relied on the human eye to average out the odd/even line phase errors. One solution was to use a 1H analog delay line to allow decoding of only the odd or even lines. For example, the chrominance on odd lines would be switched directly through to the decoder and also be stored in the delay line. Then, on even lines, the stored odd line would be decoded again. This method effectively converted PAL to NTSC. Such systems suffered hue errors and other problems inherent in NTSC and required the addition of a manual hue control.
    PAL and NTSC have slightly divergent colour spaces, but the colour decoder differences here are ignored.
    Wow. I'm in the news for buying a new camera. Cannon HF R400 - 1080/60p 1/4" CMOS sensor and for the longest time I was trying to figure out what the p meant. Now you just summed it up. Thanks man!
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