Windows 7 Forums
Welcome to Windows 7 Forums. Our forum is dedicated to helping you find support and solutions for any problems regarding your Windows 7 PC be it Dell, HP, Acer, Asus or a custom build. We also provide an extensive Windows 7 tutorial section that covers a wide range of tips and tricks.


Windows 7: Problems in several areas....looking for more TS tips to find solution

18 Apr 2011   #11
RangermanLV

Win7 64 bit Pro
 
 
Well we're haveing fun now....

Ok well the lowest manual voltage option for memory was 1.92, so I am leaving that on AUTO. The closest NB voltage I saw was the one you mentioned might be the only one avalible at the 1.393v so I set it for that. I ran Memtest with the memory in dual channel mode and immidiately got many more errors than before. So leaving the NB at the 1.393V I put the memory back in single channel config and booted to windows. Something about changing the NB voltage windows didn't like as it wouldn't boot properly. I ran the boot repair tool and it did a few things and it seems to be working now in windows HOWEVER, I notice on CPUZ on the memory tab it's saying my tRAS is running at 23 clocks. LOL I am going to go in and manualy set that for 18 and leave the memory in single channel for now and see how that runs tonight while I am playing on the computer. After I am done I will make sure that's still manualy set for 18 in BIOS and put the memory back in Dual Channel slotting and run Memtest again and see what happens, if I get errors there again I will move it back to Single channel and make sure the tRAS is still manualy set for 18 and run Memtest again and see what happens.

I think what you were saying about leaving things in AUTO can cause problems especialy when you start making manual changes to other things. Apparently bumping the NB voltage seemed to confuse the BIOS and make it want to set the tRAS to some whacky setting. At least I HOPE that's what it did.

In any case once I go back and manualy set the tRAS to 18 in BIOS I will post a little addendum here with how the system seems to be behaving with the NB voltage bumped up and the memory in single channel with the tRAS specificly set to 18.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
18 Apr 2011   #12
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

The tRAS changing is strange, looks like you are running the latest BIOS version.

This might be due to the two different RAM card brands and the 'Auto' RAM timings setting.

What is the boot repair tool?
From Asus?
I would be careful with a tool like this, no motherboard tools are very good at this kind of thing.
This could be the source of your problems.

Go to your BIOS and check if everything is on 'Auto', make a list of what is not.
Other option is to re-set BIOS to defaults, then check the RAM timings and voltages, including the NB voltage.


We may need to loosen the RAM timings, let's try testing with the current settings first.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Apr 2011   #13
RangermanLV

Win7 64 bit Pro
 
 
Well I found a config with no errors....

However it's in single channel mode. <shrug> From what i've read there isn't a HUGE difference between single channel and dual channel but I'm not sure how much it means from a gaming perspective. In any case this is what happened during testing:

In a dual channel config, tried various different locations for the ram swapping the pairs and swapping the manufacturers between slots, With the higher NB voltage I always end up getting numerous errors before even one pass has completed. Tried changing settings in BIOS to conform to what the SPD tabs say in CPUZ. <I.E. Manualy set memory timings to 5-5-5-18 and 23 in the BIOS. <There are many more timing settings in there but I left them all on AUTO> With the known settings applied in BIOS and the NB at the new voltage in dual channel configurations the memory either gives alot of errors before it even finishes one pass, or it locks up in the Memtest program on test #5 I believe. When I go back to the first Single channel config I was trying out before <the Kingston in A1 and B1 and the OCZ in A2 and B2> I am getting no errors at all thru one pass. I will run this overnight and hopefully it will get thru several passes without errors. So unless you can think of something else I can do in BIOS settings to make the 2 pairs happy with each other I guess i'm stuck in Single Channel mode.

Yes I am running latest BIOS for this MB. From back at the end of 2009 but it is the last update they made. <sigh>

Sorry when I said "boot repair tool" I guess I should have said WINDOWS Boot repair tool.

I will edit this message with the info about what is and is not Auto later before I start the overnight test on the memory in the current config. Right now I have the NB set to the 1.393V and the memory timings manually set to

CAS Latency 5
RAS to CAS delay 5
tRP 5
tRAS 18
tRC 23

As I said there are many more manual timings that can be changed in there, I will list them later.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

19 Apr 2011   #14
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Manually setting the first four RAM timings is a good step as this will help to stabilize the RAM.
Just leave the rest of the RAM timing settings on 'Auto'.

Can you take a CPUZ snip of the Memory tab with all four RAM cards installed in the 'Single Channel' configuration.
This should actually be in Dual channel mode, with four RAM cards installed.
From your motherboard manual.
Attachment 150124 Attachment 150122

Your 'Single channel' mode installation is with the <the Kingston in A1 and B1 and the OCZ in A2 and B2> both Kingston and both OCZ cards installed in the same color slots, correct?

If this is right, it is the correct installation for your RAM, and should be in Dual channel mode.

Let's confirm if in your 'single channel' mode they are actually running in single channel mode.
With four RAM cards installed it should be in 'Dual channel' mode.

Not quite sure what 'WINDOWS Boot repair tool' is.
Is it Start up Repair?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Apr 2011   #15
RangermanLV

Win7 64 bit Pro
 
 
More on the MB from hell.....

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
Manually setting the first four RAM timings is a good step as this will help to stabilize the RAM.
Just leave the rest of the RAM timing settings on 'Auto'.

Can you take a CPUZ snip of the Memory tab with all four RAM cards installed in the 'Single Channel' configuration.
This should actually be in Dual channel mode, with four RAM cards installed.
From your motherboard manual.
Attachment 150124 Attachment 150122

Your 'Single channel' mode installation is with the <the Kingston in A1 and B1 and the OCZ in A2 and B2> both Kingston and both OCZ cards installed in the same color slots, correct?

If this is right, it is the correct installation for your RAM, and should be in Dual channel mode.

Let's confirm if in your 'single channel' mode they are actually running in single channel mode.
With four RAM cards installed it should be in 'Dual channel' mode.

Not quite sure what 'WINDOWS Boot repair tool' is.
Is it Start up Repair?
My apologies for not getting back to you recently, had some school exams and a job interview in the past few days so it's been a bit busy around here.


Yes Start up Repair is what I was thinking of. I don't need it very often so don't remember the actual name. As far as the ram and the single/dual channel mode. BIOS tells me right at the beginning of post if it's going into single or dual channel mode, based on how I have the ram inserted into the slots. Right now I have the Kingston sticks in A1 and A2, and the OCZ sticks in B1 and B2. This posts and tells me it is running in Single Channel mode. This is the longest run screenshot so far with my memory in that configuration.

Attachment 151050

Until I stated looking for problems I had the memory running in dual channel with the kingston sticks paired in A1,B1 and the OCZ sticks paired in A2,B2. I believe it must be a mistake in the manual or a mistranslation from Chinese where it is saying the Channel pairs are A1/A2 B1/B2. You can see by the socket coloring and how it's paired that the #'s and not the letters are the Dual Channel pairs. And in actual usage this is what is correct. CPUZ shows single channel mode currently also. Although strangely enough, or perhaps not so strange, CPUZ's Slot #'s in the SPD tab line up as follows A1=Slot 1 B1=Slot 2 A2=Slot 3 B2= Slot 4. At least as far as CPUZ sees things.

Attachment 151053

So far with the memory in the current single channel config this is the LEAST errors I am getting in Memtest86 over the longest period, and as you can see from the screenshot, or actual not since I can't scroll back over all the errors, they are all on the same 2 tests in the same spots. From what I can tell setting the NB voltage did help some with the stabilization in single channel mode. But somehow made the problem worse in dual channel mode, as running the ram in a few dual channel configurations either results in MANY more errors, ie over 70 errors before the first pass is even completed, or the memory test locks up on one of the tests in the first pass.

As I said before we even changed the NB voltage, when I started seeing errors in Memtest86 I did run all the ram sticks in single installations and came back with no errors at all thru several passes, both with the ram in A1 and with one of each type of the ram in all other slots singly. At this point I am at a loss as to what to do other than kick myself for not being able to get 4x1GB when I decided I wanted to run at 4GB when I upgraded to Win7. Because either this is an error with Memtest86 being able to read/write to my ram in Dual Channel mode because it's internal data has no info for my ram or MB apparently, or my MB is simply far more picky about what it considers good pairs as the comment in the manual about making sure the memory size is = and CAS latency is = is apparently BS.

I am curious if there is a good reliable memory test program that can be run from inside Windows since Windows itself has a better understanding of how my memory is configured and the identification of the MB and drivers for everything that apparently Memtest86 does not. I realize this is probably a bit of wishful thinking on my part since obviously the test would need to be running with Windows AND the test using part of the memory it was testing but it's a nice thought. I should note that the Windows memory test, for all it's uselessness about giving any direct information, does say there is a problem with my memory, but unless you know how to make that test run in a more detailed mode I have no idea what it thinks IS wrong.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Apr 2011   #16
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Understand your frustration, but this issue is well known, RAM that is not matched is very difficult to get to run stable.
You can pick up two identical packages of, let's say 2x1GB Kingston RAM, and they won't run together, could be from different manufacturing batches or a small change in components or internal settings.

Sometimes it just won't run.

The above tests show that the RAM cards are good, your motherboard slots are good.
The two sets of RAM won't run together at these settings.

RAM runs from BIOS settings not from Windows, I'm afraid Memtest86+ is the best memory testing program available.
It's more likely that Windows will cause problems with your RAM, which is why memtest86+ runs without Windows.

Your best option is to get new, matched RAM.

Next best option is to start adjusting the timings and voltages and try to find a setting that will run stable. This will take a lot of time and memtest86+ runs.

If you want to try this, start with adjusting the RAM timings, leave it at 400 MHz for now, change the first four timings to 6-6-6-20 and leave the rest on auto.
Run memtest86+, if you get any errors stop the test and change the settings to 6-6-6-21, run memtest86+ again. Any errors stop the test and let us know when the errors came up and approx how many. More errors earlier than the first test or less.

This is the general procedure, sometimes loosening the timings will help.

Let us know the results.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2011   #17
RangermanLV

Win7 64 bit Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post

Next best option is to start adjusting the timings and voltages and try to find a setting that will run stable. This will take a lot of time and memtest86+ runs.

If you want to try this, start with adjusting the RAM timings, leave it at 400 MHz for now, change the first four timings to 6-6-6-20 and leave the rest on auto.
Run memtest86+, if you get any errors stop the test and change the settings to 6-6-6-21, run memtest86+ again. Any errors stop the test and let us know when the errors came up and approx how many. More errors earlier than the first test or less.

This is the general procedure, sometimes loosening the timings will help.

Let us know the results.
Ok what i'll do is change to the 6-6-6-21 and run the tests in dual channel and single channel and see if I can get some kind of stability or at least error reduction.
As far as the real original problem with my video driver resetting over and over in certain games and certain situations, I know the ram errors I'm having definitely arnt helping the problem, but I'm wondering at this point if the video driver problem itself is more likely some kind of internal Windows error as far as a compatibility issue with some recent addition or change Windows did and the type or types of video modes these particular games want to use? It's such a confusing problem because it seems to be almost totally random in that when it does occur, sometimes it will happen 5 times within 10 mins of play, and sometimes it wont happen for over an hour or more after I've started the game, then happen several times, then stop again for a while.

I have noticed that as far as the AD&D online game it does SEEM to be triggered, by some particular areas of the game that use perhaps a more intense or additional feature of my graphics card. But there have been a few times when i've gone thru these areas and not had one driver reset so I really don't know what to make of that.

In any case thanks for the continued help, hopefully at some point i'll be able to get some stability out of these two pairs together, or i'll get a job and just buy a matching pair of Kingston 2g sticks.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
06 May 2011   #18
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Let us know how the RAM timing tests are going.

Hope this will work for you.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 May 2011   #19
RangermanLV

Win7 64 bit Pro
 
 
And so it goes.....

Well I've tried several configureation but there are still many more to try. I should be comeing into some money soon, enough to buy 2x2GB paired Kingston memory sticks that are the fastest speed my system can handle so I may just give up trying to get the Kingston and the OCZ to run together in either one of the modes. I have the two Kingston 1GB sticks running in dual channel mode and I ran it thru about 20 passes with Memtest86+ the other night with no errors so I may just leave it like that for now till I get the new memory.

On a somewhat more productive note I BELIEVE I've found the main problem as to what is/was causing my graphics driver to trigger TDR's all the time. I have wondered and was told by someone I had reason to belive in the past that 70C is a nominal operateing temp for newer video cards while running fairly recent game software. I.E. Witcher 2, COD, WoW with high video settings...etc...etc.. However I also always wondered why I never heard my GPU cooling fan running any faster, I just assumed it was very quiet even at 100% speed.

However I recently downloaded the Nvidia System Tools which give you quite a bit more control over what your video card does and how things operate. So just for kicks I set the GPU fan speed to Manual and moved it to 100%. Ok well NOW I can hear it. It's not really loud but it is noticeable so I am wondering how come even if my card temp is getting to 70C I've never heard it run faster before?

So what I've done is manual set the GPU fan speed for 80%. Fairly fast but not really audible at all. Now running the games I've been having TDR problems with before I suddenly am not having these problems anymore. I'm going to have to do some more testing with this to see if all the games I was having problems with before that setting the fan speed manually myself has now resolved, but so far this seems to be working well.

So now my new question to anyone who has a clue, why was my GPU fan speed never running faster when the card gets hot on it's own? I am assuming this is something written into the firmware of the video card that correlates GPU temp to increasing fan speed but apparently it's never been working on it's own. Anyone know how to check if some other program is trying to control the GPU fan speed and if it's working or not. Also does anyone have an opinion on just leaving the fan speed manually set at 80% constantly? With it set at 80% I can run Witcher 2 with some fairly decent graphic settings and the card never goes over 52C. As I said I still need to test this with the other programs I was having problems with but so far it's working great.

Thank you all for your opinions and information in this matter.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 May 2011   #20
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

That is the best plan for your RAM, getting different brands/spec RAM to run together is not easy.

For your graphics card issue, might be FW, have you checked for updates?
Have you updated the drivers?
Sometimes you may need to go back to a previous driver if the new one isn't working for you.
Does the Nvidia System Tools have any options for 'Auto' or any more detailed settings.
Some utilities have variable settings that can be adjusted.
Running the fan manually at 80% is better than the alternative.

You might want to start a new thread in the Graphic Cards forum.
There are more graphics card experts in that forum.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
Reply

 Problems in several areas....looking for more TS tips to find solution




Thread Tools




Similar help and support threads
Thread Forum
BSOD unable to find a solution..
So I built my first PC yesterday and installed windows and updated all the drives via the website latest drives.. firstly i got a BSOD when playing a game.. after some looking someone said to update my BIOS.. so i did that.. still no luck! Then someone said it was probably the graphics card.....
General Discussion
Help, Can't find BSOD Solution
I built a computer for Christmas and installed a load of games, now its after Christmas and all the games are installed and I'm ready to play however I load a game up for instance, Saints Row The Third and after a maximum of 2 minutes the computer fans go crazy and I loose signal to my monitor....
BSOD Help and Support
How to deal with IE9 - Tips and tricks With the IE9 we find that are
With the release of IE9 we discover differences to the previous Internet Explorers and everybody has their own ways to deal with them. In this thread we should share our discoveries so that we learn from each other. There is a Tutorial that Shawn has posted that is a good starting point. This...
Browsers & Mail
Installation Error Can't find solution.
Hey all, I have been trying to reinstall Windows 7, but I have some problems... (this is a repost of an old thread, same problem with an added trouble) I backed up everything i needed, and decided it was time to start with a clean OS. I tried reinstalling Win 7 Ultimate x64 (With the same...
Installation & Setup
Installation Error Can't find solution.
Ok, so during the week Win 7 Ultimate x64 got really buggy. ie - Internet explorer decided that it would open itself countless times before it froze my computer. Same would happen with Safari and endless amounts of tabs would open in Firefox. Sooo i backed up everything i needed, and decided it was...
Installation & Setup
Help! can't connect to wireless...can't find a solution
Hey guys....I hope someone can help me solve this problem ... I've just installed windows7 home premium on my hubbys laptop (over linux ubuntu after some great help from a sevenforums member :D) But now I can't for the life of me work out how to connect to our wireless broadband. We've got...
Network & Sharing


Our Sites

Site Links

About Us

Find Us

Windows 7 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 7" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

Designer Media Ltd

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49.
Twitter Facebook Google+ Seven Forums iOS App Seven Forums Android App