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Windows 7: Windows 7 Ultimate Crash without explaniation

02 Nov 2009   #11
H2SO4

Win7x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by brettlee25 View Post
... i'll let it run in the BIOS config menu all night to see if it locks up the same way, if it doesnt would that mean its a software issue?
Oddly enough, no.

While even a single instance of "the bad" while loitering in the BIOS config menu proves the hardware is unreliable, if it doesn't happen at all that doesn't prove it's not the hardware. Sitting in the BIOS menu doesn't exactly ex3rcise every type of functionality provided by the hardware for use by complex software such as an OS. Hence, you can't be sure whether it didn't happen because the hardware is not faulty, or because the faulty functionality was never requested.

If the problem doesn't occur in the BIOS menu, I'd suggest testing with a completely different OS - preferably not Windows at all, so that there's no likelihood of a software overlap. Boot with a Knoppix CD or Ubuntu or another NIX build, and watch what happens.


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02 Nov 2009   #12
brettlee25

Windows 7
 
 

I was thinking the same thing yesterday, so i installed windows vista ultimate, and i ran it the whole day almost and never had a single issue, this is seriously the strangest thing i have ever encountered. I thought it might be the graphics, but i ran the tests with the pc-tools hardware scanner thing, and it said every thing mobo graphics, were running perfectly, and all drivers were up to date. Now i cannot figure out why vista works perfect on the computer but 7 wont. I do have one theory but i dont know anything about this, does the fact that the computer is a slimline and has (i think) lower voltage than a normal desktop effect anything. I'm pretty sure the power box is smaller, i remember while looking for a good graphics card (there are any i can find) that most of them wouldn't work due to low power output from the slimline. let me know what you think thanks.

also just to let you know, i have had this computer for about 3 (running for 1) and there was never a problem, it had vista home premium on it, and never crashed once and worked fine (just slow due to vista)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Nov 2009   #13
H2SO4

Win7x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by brettlee25 View Post
I was thinking the same thing yesterday, so i installed windows vista ultimate, and i ran it the whole day almost and never had a single issue, this is seriously the strangest thing i have ever encountered. I thought it might be the graphics, but i ran the tests with the pc-tools hardware scanner thing, and it said every thing mobo graphics, were running perfectly, and all drivers were up to date. Now i cannot figure out why vista works perfect on the computer but 7 wont. I do have one theory but i dont know anything about this, does the fact that the computer is a slimline and has (i think) lower voltage than a normal desktop effect anything. I'm pretty sure the power box is smaller, i remember while looking for a good graphics card (there are any i can find) that most of them wouldn't work due to low power output from the slimline. let me know what you think thanks.

also just to let you know, i have had this computer for about 3 (running for 1) and there was never a problem, it had vista home premium on it, and never crashed once and worked fine (just slow due to vista)
Hmmm. I fear you may be the victim of that most recalcitrant class of hardware problems - those which only show up when the hardware is "driven" in a very specific way by a specific OS or driver.

Let's assume for the moment that, based on your recent experience with Vista, the problem is solely confined to Win7. Vista is fine, and so would be Linux or any other OS you choose to install. What is notably different?

a) The OS componentry responsible for interacting with the video driver.
b) The video driver itself.
c) The collection of other non-video drivers which could potentially be affecting the outcome, seeing as they're kernel-mode components which have full access to all hardware on the machine.

Let's disregard (a) for now - down that path lies madness.

If it's (b), then the following test should prevent an occurence of the problem under Win7. Use an elevated (run as admin) instance of the CMD prompt to issue this command:

BCDEDIT /SET VGA ON

Then, reboot. You'll be in "basevideo" mode which uses an extremely conservative video driver built into the OS partially for the purposes of troubleshooting. If the symptom doesn't manifest itself, obviously the "real" video driver used normally is somehow part of the problem.

The last category - (c) - is The Biggest Pain In The A##e to troubleshoot. You'd really want to bypass having to deal with all that by simply testing what happens when the OS is completely reinstalled from scratch in "vanilla" style - no updates, no new drivers, no additional software... Literally nothing at all except the code which comes on the Windows disc.

Lastly, if you can open the case without voiding the warranty, try what happens if you jiggle the cables around or even move the video card to another slot (if available). I have no means of knowing whether your theory regarding slimlineness and/or voltage is correct, but it's possible that reseating a few cable connectors and cleaning a few contacts (with compressed air) may help.

It really, really looks like the hardware just going nuts. There's no software command for "I want you to play 'insane'".
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02 Nov 2009   #14
brettlee25

Windows 7
 
 

Wow your knowledge is astounding I'm here at college Majoring in Computer Science Engineering, and I normally know my way around computer, but you are a master, I took off the side panel and cleaned the little dust off that i could find, cleaned the processor fan, and reseated the ram, i though maybe it was overheating, but after letting it run all night in BIOS it wasent hot at all, so i ran it in safe ode for a while until it crashed there too, and it still wasnt hot. Right now i did option # 2 and SET VGA ON and im in what seems to be 800x600, i hope nothing happens and it is my driver, but i really dont know what to do, i have the latest drivers NVIDA offers, and i used the one before that as well. If i must i'll reinstall 7 again fresh, i have all my software anyways, it just sucks that i have had to install it so many times, i'm wondering about this error because it did it when i was trying to install 7 with the home premium disks as well, so i guess that driver i was using was uncompatible with 7 as well. Hmmm.....
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02 Nov 2009   #15
brettlee25

Windows 7
 
 

well i ran it in VGA mode for a little over an hour and did as many things as i could, movies downloads, word, games, and nothing happened i took it out of vga mode and installed the graphics driver again, (onboard graphics, Geforce 6150 SE nForce 430) and am now waiting to see if anything changed. i think that was the 2nd longest it went without a crash so i have my fingers crossed that the drivers were just weird. if you can find a more compatible driver for this card please let me know, thanks
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02 Nov 2009   #16
brettlee25

Windows 7
 
 

well after an hour in normal mode it crashed again??? Any suggestions, maybe i didnt keep it in VGA mode long enough for it to crash. i have a paper due so i'm going to have to deal with this for now and save it every 10 sec but maybe i will try reinstalling it yet again. Let me know
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Nov 2009   #17
H2SO4

Win7x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by brettlee25 View Post
well after an hour in normal mode it crashed again??? Any suggestions, maybe i didnt keep it in VGA mode long enough for it to crash. i have a paper due so i'm going to have to deal with this for now and save it every 10 sec but maybe i will try reinstalling it yet again. Let me know
When you have the time to troubleshoot, I'd suggest once again going into "basevideo" and staying there over the weekend if necessary - long enough to convince yourself one way or the other whether you can say "it does not happen" in that mode.

Ideally, you'd do that just after a clean "vanilla" reinstall of the OS too, so that if the same symptom occurs when using the normal driver but not basevideo, you can go back to the shop and claim repairs or replacement under warranty.

My gut feeling is that the hardware is broken and using the "full-featured" driver exposes that brokenness in a way that basevideo doesn't. However, deterministic troubleshooting of such a condition would be what's technically called "a b##ch", seeing as how it would possibly involve digital capture CROs and a soldering iron

Given the box is under warranty, you really don't want to be doing that yourself. If it happens on a vanilla install, RMA it and let them sort it out - after they give you new hardware which works.

Thanks for the compliments! I derive a perverse enjoyment from troubleshooting strange and complex problems.
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02 Nov 2009   #18
brettlee25

Windows 7
 
 

Thanks for the help, i'll run it this way all day tomorrow during classes and stuff, i have never been able to use it longer than 2 hours so that will tell me for sure if it dosent mess up though i'm a little unclear to what that means. I guess i'll just find out how to do this warranty thing, i have never actually used a warranty before, i guess i'll just cal and ask questions. Have a great week

-Brett
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Nov 2009   #19
Snufffed

 

Your Video Card is Compatible with Win 7.
I'd find the latest driver and install the DRIVER in Vista SP2 Compatible MODE.

then try it...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Nov 2009   #20
brettlee25

Windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Snuffy View Post
Your Video Card is Compatible with Win 7.
I'd find the latest driver and install the DRIVER in Vista SP2 Compatible MODE.

then try it...
How exactly do you do that, i mean i know your right click and set compatibility to vista sp2, but what do i right click, their are about 3-4 application in the drivers folder for NVIDIA?? thanks for the help
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