Gasoline...WOW

DocBrown said:

It was just on the local news that Exxon/Mobil made 11 Billion $ profit in the 1st Quarter, 2011

That is only a 10% profit. They sold $114 billion worth or product.

Major countries listed.
Fuel tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

U.S. average State and Federal is right at $0.49 per gallon. Most if not all are no sales tax added.
Price posted is price you pay.

I read some of the European taxes and you also have 20% VAT some places on top of fuel tax.

I kinda get tired of hearing about how US citizens require so much energy compared to everybody else. From my perspective, I was born and raised here. For me, what we do, drive and consume is simply normal. Here, larger vehicles have always been the norm. Travel trailers and RV's are typical. We have boats, ATV's, motorcycles, etc. And most cities, in the US, have a dismal or non-existent public transportation system. You cannot exactly blame citizens for having a need to get around by car. And finally, with our housing market completely in the tank, it's not as if people who have long commutes to work, can reasonably expect to sell their homes and move closer to work.

For lots of people, that larger SUV isn't a selfish choice, but rather more or a necessity. For example, when you have 3-4 kids....how are you supposed to lug around everybody in the family in a smart car? And with the high price of cars, you cannot honesty have the larger SUV for traveling with the family and the smart car to commute to and from work.

And with regards to fuel efficient cars, Europe has tons of turbo diesel vehicles that get great gas mileage. Unfortunately, these turbo diesel engines here in the United States are simply few and far between. It's not that US citizen don't buy them, but they simply aren't available from many manufacturers at all.

I too am impacted by the higher fuel prices. While I realize that Europe and Australia are higher....I think over the past 5-10 years, the change hasn't been as dramatic there. For example, our prices have increased nearly 3x in 10 years. Have prices jumped by that much in other countries over that same time period? I'm changing driving habits, driving less, and not taking trips. I'm filling up my tank more often so that my fill up price doesn't seem as high.

And the profits made by the oil companies are just outrageous. Billlions of dollars a year....they must just be loving this.

LOL, you act like my wife. She always takes gas for $20 - so she thinks the price stays the same. But seriously - your story is understandable but unless you dramatically change, there will be a rude awakening. It does not matter what you used to do, it matters what you do now. And cars or trucks that do only 20 or 25MpG are no more appropriate. What are you going to do when gas costs $10 per Gallon - and that will happen. In Europe the increase in percent terms is not as dramatic because of the large tax portion in the price.

The problem with turbo diesels is different. They need very clean diesel fuel without sulfur and water content. And that is not available in the US because no new refineries were built in the last 30 years. It is ashame because a 2 litre turbo diesel has the same torque as a 5 litre V8 - and it has up to 190HP. That would make them ideal for e.g. pick-ups at less than half the consumption.

whs said:

It does not matter what you used to do, it matters what you do now. And cars or trucks that do only 20 or 25MpG are no more appropriate. What are you going to do when gas costs $10 per Gallon - and that will happen.

Well, hopefully our alternative fuel vehicles come a long way....because unless you can fit your family into a Prius....there aren't that many vehicles getting 30+MPG here that fit a family of 4 or 5. For us to comfortably go anywhere with our 2 kids and our dog...means that we either have to take our minivan or my Dodge Magnum (which is a wagon). There isn't enough room in my Passat....which gets around 28mpg on the highway.

Like I said, lots of people would like to live closer to work, but we cannot sell our homes because they aren't worth much. We cannot rely on public transportation because we have almost none. We cannot effectively commute via bicycle because we are so spread out and there is very little room to ride.

Well, hopefully our alternative fuel vehicles come a long way....because unless you can fit your family into a Prius....there aren't that many vehicles getting 30+MPG here that fit a family of 4 or 5. For us to comfortably go anywhere with our 2 kids and our dog...means that we either have to take our minivan or my Dodge Magnum (which is a wagon). There isn't enough room in my Passat....which gets around 28mpg on the highway.

I could name you at least 10 cars doing 40MpG+ where you would comfortably fit your whole gang. But unfortunately for here they are all turbo diesels. And until they make decent diesel fuel available, those cannot be used in the US. It is like I have observed since the 50s - in car matters the US is always 25 years behind the rest of the world - nice shells, crummy technology.

smarteyeball said:

Not by x3 - double is more like it, but all that reflects is that some countries have been paying through the nose for longer.

Actually, in the spring of 2000 prices were averaging $1.38 to $1.50 per gallon. I used to record all of my fill ups. Considering that we are at about $4.25 a gallon in Michigan now, that's pretty much 3x the price.

I only used that to explain why there is so much sticker shock with regards to this increase. It's not as if salaries have increased dramatically, or our public transit has increased much at all in these past 10 years. And while hybrids are nice and are far more fuel efficient these days....they are also fairly costly.

The Ford Fusion hybrid is approx $10,000 more expensive than the gasoline only Ford Fusion. At $4.25 per gallon of gas, that's approx 2350 gallons of gas that you can buy for the price difference.

So, if you average 15,000 miles per year and the standard gas engine averages 27mpg and the hybrid averages 39mpg...that means that over the course of 1 year you will consume 555 gallons of gas in the regular engine and 385 gallons of gas in the hybrid. That's a difference of 170 gallons of gas...and if you multiply that x the price of gas today (4.25), that is a savings of $722 per year. So, if the car costs $10,000 more and you save $1,000 or less per year on gas...it's going to take you 10 years simply to break even. Granted it will be faster than this because the cost of fuel is going to continue to rise....but you can see my point.

Taking my 2002 VW Passat as an example. Between City and Highway I average about 23MPG. The car is fully paid off with only 83,000 miles on it. So, I average around 10,000 miles a year on the car. It's average trade in value is around $5,000. A 2011 Ford Fusion Hybrid with Leather and approx same level of Trim of my Passat is $34,000. So, if I trade in my VW and get $5,000. I would have to finance $29,000 for the Fusion. At 3.5% (my current banks rate) at 5 years with 6% state Sales tax, that's roughly $560 a month for the payment. So, at $560 a month divided by $4.25 a gallon for gas...I would have to buy more than 131 gallons of fuel each month to save any money. Considering that at 10,000 miles per year divided by 23MPG...that's about 434 gallons of gas that I consume in a year....so I average about 36 gallons per month which is well short of 131 gallons per month.

So right now, as much as I don't want to pay $4.25 a gallon for gas, I cannot justify the expense of purchasing a hybrid to get better gas mileage. My monthly car payment would far and away exceed the cost of fuel.

smarteyeball said:

Like it or not - simply put the US has to adapt, just like the rest of the world.

Yes, and I am adapting by getting used to the higher costs.

smarteyeball said:

If that means replacing excessive resource hogging vehicles with more efficient ones that do the same task, then so be it.

As I demonstrate above, the difference in car prices and new car payments simply doesn't add up yet. After a few years, when hybrids can be had used and such, and gas prices go up even more, it will be more compelling.

There is still something you do NOT understand - hybrids are NOT the solution. Too heavy, too expensive, too complicated. Plus they are by far not as efficient as turbo diesels. Get a few modern diesel refineries into the country and you are in business. There are hundreds of car models (40MpG and better) in the world that would satisfy everybodies needs. For smaller cars, you can even look for 70 to 80MpG - and not only Smarts.