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Windows 7: Gasoline...WOW

29 Apr 2011   #31
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
There is still something you do NOT understand - hybrids are NOT the solution. Too heavy, too expensive, too complicated. Plus they are by far not as efficient as turbo diesels. Get a few modern diesel refineries into the country and you are in business. There are hundreds of car models (40MpG and better) in the world that would satisfy everybodies needs. For smaller cars, you can even look for 70 to 80MpG - and not only Smarts.
It's not that I don't understand this....it's that this is where the US seems to be going. Getting more and more turbo diesels doesn't seem to be happening here. So, I'm not sure why I would focus on alternatives that don't seem to be available.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mickey megabyte View Post
i'm 43 years old, and i've never owned a car (not bragging about it - i''ve always been poor, and cars are very useful things, especially if you have a family - which i don't). instead i have a scooter, and i remember being shocked just a couple of months ago by having to go over the psychological barrier of 10 (yes, a whole ten quid!) to fill her up.
I think it would be awesome to be able to get by without a car. My brother in law has lived in Switzerland and London and managed just fine without a car in both locations. Where I live in Michigan, we have snow on the ground for 1/2 the year...so getting by with a scooter would probably not cut it. In addition, we don't have subways, trolly's, and very, very few cabs even. And I used to have to drive 32 miles each way to work. I'm down to 12 miles each way now...it's the shortest drive of my professional life. Maybe i could get a scooter during the summer. I strongly considered riding my bicycle to work, but we have no place to shower in the office and I couldn't sit at my desk in a full blown sweat all day.
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29 Apr 2011   #32
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote:
It's not that I don't understand this....it's that this is where the US seems to be going. Getting more and more turbo diesels doesn't seem to be happening here. So, I'm not sure why I would focus on alternatives that don't seem to be available.
That would be something to take up with your Congress man/woman. It is high time that the US catch up with the leading industrial nations. And a public transportation infrastructure should be addressed too. The 2 options for transportation you have now (cars and defunct airlines) is not going to work for a long time any more.

Here is a long distance travel option that is available since 25 years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Layg7...eature=related

And this i even a better option: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPduAYKk_6I
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29 Apr 2011   #33
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
That would be something to take up with your Congress man/woman. It is high time that the US catch up with the leading industrial nations.
Well, this is something that while commendable, isn't going to help with our current high gas price issue....as this would take, years, upon years, upon years. I'm sure that somebody else is banging on this drum, so I'm not going to spend the rest of my life lobbying my local politicians...who seem to really only care about those things which increase their power and wealth.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
And a public transportation infrastructure should be addressed too. The 2 options for transportation you have now (cars and defunct airlines) is not going to work for a long time any more.
Unfortunately, both of these things have high costs associated with them, and if you haven't watched the news as of late, our economy is anything but booming. People are already strapped with the middle and lower classes failing entirely.
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29 Apr 2011   #34
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote:
Unfortunately, both of these things have high costs associated with them, and if you haven't watched the news as of late, our economy is anything but booming. People are already strapped with the middle and lower classes failing entirely.
If you go by that, there is never a right time. Think of the trillion Dollars that was sunk in Iraq - was that at the right time.

My plan would be simple. Increase the gas tax by 50 cents each year for the next ten years. That would get the gas price to the European level and people would have an incentive to change their car purchasing habits. That would also put trillions into the public budget which could be used for a transportation infrastructure (like the national highway initiative under Eisenhower).

In addition I would tax all other energies and give the money back to the people so that they insulate their houses, install solar power, etc. It is appalling how little insulation is being put into houses. In my Florida home it is a sheet of aluminum paper and the windows are single pane - and the AC has to do the rest. In Germany the code is 6 inch insulation on the outside and 2 inches on the inside, plus triple pane windows. That's how you get zero energy homes even in a German climate.

Half of the US is in the sunbelt but i hardly ever see solar. With proper tax incentives that could be changed and if you use only half of the energy from your supplier ( or even less), then twice the price does not hurt - the same with the gas consumption of cars.
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29 Apr 2011   #35
Swifty

Windows 7 x64 Professional
 
 

1.4/L Dx atrocious!
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29 Apr 2011   #36
fseal

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

Quote:
In addition I would tax all other energies and give the money back to the people so that they insulate their houses, install solar power, etc. It is appalling how little insulation is being put into houses. In my Florida home it is a sheet of aluminum paper and the windows are single pane - and the AC has to do the rest. In Germany the code is 6 inch insulation on the outside and 2 inches on the inside, plus triple pane windows. That's how you get zero energy homes even in a German climate.

Half of the US is in the sunbelt but i hardly ever see solar. With proper tax incentives that could be changed and if you use only half of the energy from your supplier ( or even less), then twice the price does not hurt - the same with the gas consumption of cars.
Florida is not exactly a future forward state. California has the very same construction laws as you are talking about for Germany. Please remember that the US is a lot like the EU, every state can be vastly diferent from the next WRT this stuff.

And solar...

Well there are nearly astronomical problems with large scale solar roll out. The complete and utter lack of a storage mechanism for massive amounts of power means that solar will have to be backed up by full power from non solar sources at all times unless we wish to simply accept that there will be no power at night or on cloudy days.

And even turning plants on and off with the sun is not something they were ever deigned for, entirely new systems have to be built around the concept. And then there are the clouds which can cut and surge megawatts of power in seconds across solar farms. Similar problem with systems where everyhouse has it's own solar feeding the grid. The grid can only take a small % of homes on solar before huge forward and backward swings of power generate cause serious problems on cloudy days.

Huge huge problems. Would be nice to simply put something on your roof to take care of all your power needs, and in very limited cases that can work. But rolling that out nation wide? It could take 50 years to get there even working hard on it now. The problems are being studied but, there are NO realistic solutions for it right now.

[Edit] California actually has quite a few solar farms and more on the way and a lot of these problems are actually being worked out in this state, which is why this kind of news and awareness of the issues is common here. At best they provide the peaker energy needed on hot sunny days for AC for local towns. Nothing to sneeze at, but just a % of the total need.[/edit]
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29 Apr 2011   #37
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Hmm, interesting. When I lived in San Jose, Cal, my house had no insulation either. But that seems to have changed in the meantime.

As to solar, even if it took 50 years to get to a complete solution, that is better than doing nothing. But I see nothing happening right now, and I doubt it would take that long once we put our minds to it. One day that may be the only option and we better start now working on it.

Granted, in Germany it is not pervasive either - in part because the climate is really not favorable. But I know people who installed solar as far back as 25 years ago. They cut their heating oil consumption by 80%. The savings there plus the goverment incentives made it well worthwhile.
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29 Apr 2011   #38
Joan Archer

Windows 10 64bit/Windows 10 64bit
 
 

Just my 2 pence worth but over here diesel is more expensive now whereas for years it was always cheaper to run a diesel car than a petrol one, not anymore.
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29 Apr 2011   #39
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
My plan would be simple. Increase the gas tax by 50 cents each year for the next ten years. That would get the gas price to the European level and people would have an incentive to change their car purchasing habits. That would also put trillions into the public budget which could be used for a transportation infrastructure (like the national highway initiative under Eisenhower).
So, over 10 years via tax alone they increase us from $4.25 a gallon to $9.25 a gallon. We already are evaluating our car purchasing habits...but our only real choices are hybrids (which you said are not the answer) and pure electric cars (those aren't the answer either with limited run capacities and the increasing costs of electricity). And I cannot help but think that our country would squander that tax collection and it would be used to somehow benefit the top 1% of the richest people.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
In addition I would tax all other energies and give the money back to the people so that they insulate their houses, install solar power, etc. It is appalling how little insulation is being put into houses. In my Florida home it is a sheet of aluminum paper and the windows are single pane - and the AC has to do the rest.
While I would love to insulate my house more, with the housing market doing as poorly as it is, it's an investment right now that I simply cannot get back. When I bought my house in 2000, it was valued around $130k. It got up to close to $150k and is now worth about $40k. I've only got 5 years or so left on a 15 year mortgage and I'm still under water. Honestly, the extra in the utilities is less than the cost of making it more efficient. In the long run, I know it's better for the world to make the changes...but I've gotta pay my medical bills, pay for my kids schooling, pay my insurance premiums, pay for my cars, pay for my mortgage, pay for my gas, deal with high unemployment, no raises, lost wages due to hour cutbacks, etc.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Joan Archer View Post
Just my 2 pence worth but over here diesel is more expensive now whereas for years it was always cheaper to run a diesel car than a petrol one, not anymore.
We have been more expensive for diesel here as well up until very recently. Now, it seems that gasoline is higher and diesel is about 15c per gallon cheaper.
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29 Apr 2011   #40
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

One advantage of high taxes on fuel is that the goverment can choose to tax diesel lower than gas - which they do in Germany. So you win twice - lower consumption and lower price. Plus more power and a longer lasting engine.
Quote:
And I cannot help but think that our country would squander that tax collection and it would be used to somehow benefit the top 1% of the richest people.
That would be a matter of proper legislation and earmarking.

Quote:
While I would love to insulate my house more, with the housing market doing as poorly as it is, it's an investment right now that I simply cannot get back. When I bought my house in 2000, it was valued around $130k. It got up to close to $150k and is now worth about $40k. I've only got 5 years or so left on a 15 year mortgage and I'm still under water. Honestly, the extra in the utilities is less than the cost of making it more efficient. In the long run, I know it's better for the world to make the changes...but I've gotta pay my medical bills, pay for my kids schooling, pay my insurance premiums, pay for my cars, pay for my mortgage, pay for my gas, deal with high unemployment, no raises, lost wages due to hour cutbacks, etc.
Now you touch on another whole set of problems. Education that is not free of charge, health isurance that does not cover you 100% (or nearly), cars that are being purhased on credit and general credit card debt that people have. None of those problems I ever had to face. But that is a discussion for another day.
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