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Windows 7: Linux is trying to kill me. Really.

29 Mar 2010   #51
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by fseal View Post
So Linux is all about "Thinking Different?"

Look I'm a linux developer. And I'll say straight out, Linux is insanely user hostle. No user should ever need to have development tools installed. Period. It's allso commercial software development hostle.
Agreed on that, but for some VERY rare case (like installing NVIDIA binary blob driver), you'd need GCC and some kernel source files (IIRC, I installed it on my OpenSuSE 10.3 back then, to try the infamous Compiz)

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by fseal View Post
Linux is a /personal/ developers OS and will never do anything in the mainstream user space as long as the current way of "Linux thinking" persists.

And maybe that's just fine! People shouldn't make Linux out to be anything other than what it is, and a mainstream desktop OS it's not, and frankly, never will be. There is WAY too much "Linux Thinking" in the way for that to happen in the next 10 years at least. That includes a lot of Linux people (people that get Linux "thinking") that say things that really are not true at all in some sort of hopeful dreamy defiance to reality. I meet far too many of those types as well. :/
Agreed yet again... For those who want to try Linux, must prepare for not so friendly "world". Linux "world" is an "idealist" world, and a harsh one at that.

zzz2496

Edit: As a desktop/mainstream OS, maybe Linux can't do much, but once you have a running Linux SERVER, that thing is nearly indestructible...
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29 Mar 2010   #52
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
Ouch, I'm sorry if I offended you...
Not at all. You should maybe know my manner is very direct and if I'm going to talk that way, I'd better be ready to be spoken to in a similar manner. If we've gotten off on the wrong track let me reassure you there's no animosity on this end.

Quote:
The reality is, Linux isn't quite ready to be used as a "real desktop" OS used by a "regular" user. Even some of my colleagues which are seasoned Windows administrator (most of them have MCP for both Client and Server OS plus Microsoft network certification), Linux can be a bit daunting. Linux is still to "open", everyone can pitch in, if one doesn't like it, feel free to not use Linux, it's a stark contrast with Windows... since you paid for it, you are illegible to some kind of support, plus there's the 90%++ market that uses Windows, so the "mentality" will form... In Linux world, it's a "free for all" world, very different than Windows. More like "wild jungle" than a "suburban community", it's the "wild west" of computing... Everyone is on their own to survive.

There's a saying in Linux world "RTFM", it really mean something. "Manual" is not just the man pages, or some blog entries, sometimes it can span to hundreds of mailing list topics that's being discussed by the devs/users. It's a free world. The fact that you missed "How-to" guide from Nvidia proved my point. You expect the driver installer to be run like in Windows, by double clicking the file - then follow the onscreen wizard (my vague point). Yet in Linux, you do "click" the file, by running a command as "root", with the requirement of having developer tools installed. If you see it from a Linux user, your default installation most of the time doesn't install developer tools by default, and most of the time - you don't need it, since Linux will auto discover, install, and configure MANY devices by default. Installing a binary blob is not a "normal' routine, thus needing "special approach". If you look at that from a Windows user point of view, it's fricking troublesome (because you expect Linux to run like Windows)...

Some of the Linux community had their lesson(s) the hard way, some of them are reluctant to help a "helpless" user, those with less effort more [bad] mouthing (I don't mean you), thus what you receive in Ubuntu forums... Can't really blame them, some of them might spend days just to install that driver, only to curse in the end for not reading the instructions on the other tab on the download page...

zzz2496
Your point is taken... I like the wild west analogy... However I don't believe I came to the Linux experience expecting it to be like windows... My first screen shot pretty much dispelled that notion. However, I do think it reasonable that when offering to help, people should actually help... really.

I do agree Linux is "not ready for prime time" although the curve seems to be leading it in that direction. As an old DOS instructor and a C language programmer, the only advice I can offer is the same as I offered to people starting out with DOS... Documentation, Documentation and more Documentation...

And yes, my friend, I certainly do know what RTFM referrs to
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29 Mar 2010   #53
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
It's just different, need to face the reality and accept that it's different then learn the "ways of Linux".
Absolutely... but *nobody* ... not even you, is there on day 1.

Grasshopper, you must allow the journey if you wish to reach the destination.
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.

29 Mar 2010   #54
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
It's just different, need to face the reality and accept that it's different then learn the "ways of Linux".
Absolutely... but *nobody* ... not even you, is there on day 1.

Grasshopper, you must allow the journey if you wish to reach the destination.
Ahahahahaa, agreed... I remembered the day I sat in front of RedHat Linux (I forgot the version), a Text based console, installed off 12 floppy disks (IIRC) and nothing is interesting at that time... By the time I understand the fundamental building blocks of Linux, I was already cursing at "cmd.exe" more than 3 curses/second

zzz2496
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29 Mar 2010   #55
Prisoner

Windows 8 Pro 64-bit
 
 

Well, that was a very interesting conversation to read through.

On a lighter topic... I finally got Mint working normally. gOS, in my -extreme novice- opinion, needs a lot of work...
The dock at the bottom of the screen uses a transparent image behind the icons to hide the program's window, but you can tell it's there by click-dragging from somewhere on the screen to the icons; the selection box just disappears...

Didn't see much a hard drive size difference between it an Mint, and even after updates (which fixed Mint's performance troubles), it still went slow. Wasn't working right with my graphics card. User menu was too small... but then again, it's for netbooks, not full desktops...
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29 Mar 2010   #56
geeve420

Windows 8, Ubuntu 12.04 64bit, Pear Linux Triple Boot
 
 

I use Fedora 12 and I like it. The problem Linux has is first the support is awful, I have printed off about 25 pages of stuff just to get things running. The other issue and why I don't think it is viable for everyone, is that not all hardware is supported. It is the hardware makers not releasing the info for the driver writers. I would be off Windows completely if my Emu sound card was supported. It is not and probably never will be. With out home audio recording I really have no need for anything but windows. I have Fedora installed just to play around with it and see what has changed at each release.
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29 Mar 2010   #57
CyberZeus

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 clean install
 
 

I had a dual boot with Vista x64 and Ubuntu 8. Why? Vista was too slow.
Now I have Windows 7, it's fast with the same hardware as Vista: no need for Linux.

Anyway, I was successful installing Nvidia drivers and getting SLI working. Difficult, I needed to read two guides on it, take the working parts from them and build my own guide on Nvidia and SLI.
If someone want that guide, I could post it.

CyberZeus
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29 Mar 2010   #58
TheSchaft

Windows 7 x64 HP, Windows 7 HP, Windows 7 Ult
 
 

I've looked at this thread, and the other one on Linux (shameless plug: Linux), and I'll reiterate what I've said before: My going-in position is if I cannot use a GUI to run EVERYTHING in the OS, it gets deleted. No more terminal or DOS - been there done that, got the t-shirt.

Ubuntu worked good, Linux Mint works great - a cross between XP and Windows 7 (old style menu + search bar and screenlets (read gadgets) for weather, machine info, etc.)

On the systems that I've tried it (32 bit laptop and 64 bit desktop) Linux Mint 8 has not given me any reason to toss it (so far). I have been able to play all the videos I have (thanks in part to Ubuntu Tweaks - Ubuntu Tweak - Let's rock with Ubuntu), convert my mail from Outlook to Thunderbird, even re-arrange the boot menu order via a small download.

Not ready for prime time? I'm not so sure. Granted, I don't play WoW, Wolfenstein, etc., but for day to day Office-type stuff, browsing, and e-mail it sure looks more and more like something that, as I've said before, Microsoft ought to be looking over their shoulder at.

Bottom line: I didn't have to tweak it any more than I've had to tweak Windows 7 to get it to look and feel like I want it, and all the tweaks were GUI based.

All that said, I'll be staying with Windows 7 because I believe that it is still the best out there (for now) and because I can't see Linus doing a Steve Ballmar monkey dance (try to get THAT image out of your head. )

Just my humble opinion.
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30 Mar 2010   #59
valtonray

Windows 7 Ultimate Signature Edition
 
 

i have to say i like the theory of linux more than i actually like using it.
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08 Apr 2010   #60
loaba

Windows 7 Home x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by valtonray View Post
i have to say i like the theory of linux more than i actually like using it.
Nailed it, man. I feel exactly the same way. Linux is neat to install and play with, the potential seems endless. Then you run into the first hurdle (of many), and if you're not the type who likes a challenge, you'll quickly become discouraged.
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