The perfect operating system....

Lordbob75 said:

First off, you can still see the router that the firewall is on.
Second, firewalls can be by-passed.

Not if it's set up properly.

Seriously, a hacker can ping and prod and try port connects on my IP address all day and as far as he'll know there's nothing there to connect to.

People who get hacked are almost always the kinds of people who bring this stuff home, plug it in, and never once think to open the manual.

Hacking is opportunistic... nobody is going to get into a machine or LAN they can't connect to...

Or unless something you did with your "stable" software messed it up through a bug in the OS or software code.

Microsoft has people so totally brainwashed... it's sad really.

When on Win2000 --before there were automatic updates-- I would get up in the morning, turn on my computers, go grab a coffee, flip through my email, maybe catch up with a forum ot two... and then fire up one of my programming languages and start pounding code... No Firewalls, No Automatic Updates, No System Restore... and here I am creating programs that well could have mangled my system through my own error... and you know what? In all those years... Not one problem that I didn't cause for myself... Not one.

Now the scernario has change radically... We all NEED our Auto-this and Reversible-that... or we think we're going to die... So some dumbass programmer at microsoft makes a change in a DLL, sends it out on Automatic Updates because he's miles behind his quota... We all very obediently install this latest and greatest update to our systems and within a few minuts about half the world starts having problems with their machines... It CAN'T be the OS... it's perfect. It CAN'T be this update, they're good for us... So why is my computer --the one that worked right for years-- suddenly giving me all this grief.

In point of fact... Once your system is stable and working... Automatic updates are far more likely to cause problems than they are to fix them.

Really... think about it... You're saying "What if I did something with my software that caused problems"... but you are perfectly willing to let a huge corporation on the far side of the continent do exactly that, without your consent and possibly without your knowledge...

MadMaxData said:

Lordbob75 said:

Ok then. Just because you have a firewall does not mean you cannot be hacked.

If it's configured properly it does.

If it can be bypassed there's not much point having it, is there?

Lordbob75 said:

If you have a computer, eventually someone will give it a shot (not necessarily successfully).

Seriously? That sounds a bit like paranoia to me Bro. I ran XP-Pro on my test machine for over a year without a applying a single update, and didn't get a single infection [not counting tracking cookies]. No anti-virus software installed either.

Same here... I don't run real time anti-anything. If I suspect a problem that defies normal intuitive diagnosis, I have anti-virus scanners on my system I can use. But there is absolutely no reason they need to be running all the time. Viruses don't magically appear. The machine needs to execute them before your system can be infected and It's beyond easy to adjust Email and Browser settings so that can't happen... Things like turning off installation of desktop items and requiring confirmation before installing active-x, coupled with a little common sense will do more to protect your system than any anti-virus program ever will.

I've done a lot of service calls in my day and there are certain commonalities I keep finding over and over again...

The machines with all the problems --virii, spyware, etc.-- are almost always being operated entirely on default settings, show a history of venturing into porno and warez sites and have multiple 3rd party anti-whatever programs installed.

In contrast the machines I visit where the sofware is fine, are usually carefully adjusted by their users and do not make excessive use of the paranoia tools... Most often I clean them up, fix a bad connection or replace a noisey fan and I'm on my way...

One's best defense against these problems always has been plain old common sense.

Is this thread about the impossible-to-achieve perfect OS or virus protection/system security? :)

When it comes to system security, MS pretty much needs to be on top of things and they need to make it possible for all users to update easily. If they didn't, they would be open to all kinds of liability. If you don't want the updates, then turn 'em off.

Really, in this age of wireless networks, I'm more concerned with wardriving and shopping cart privacy then OS security.

loaba said:

Is this thread about the impossible-to-achieve perfect OS or virus protection/system security? :)

I think it's all part and parcel of the same thing... Obviously a perfect operating system would have to be faultlessly secure and stable....

loaba said:

When it comes to system security, MS pretty much needs to be on top of things and they need to make it possible for all users to update easily. If they didn't, they would be open to all kinds of liability. If you don't want the updates, then turn 'em off.

I always do.

Really, in this age of wireless networks, I'm more concerned with wardriving and shopping cart privacy then OS security.

True enough....

CommonTater said:

I think it's all part and parcel of the same thing... Obviously a perfect operating system would have to be faultlessly secure and stable....

Then the perfect OS is a virtual impossibility. Code can be examined and holes can be found. The more code, the more holes. It's just that simple.

Windows greatest strength will always be it's greatest weakness; backward compatibility. In accommodating older software and hardware, a new OS has to pack in a lot of older legacy code. Again, more code ensures more chances for security issues.

One way around this would be a modular approach, perhaps something called a "legacy suite"? You could choose to include it during system install, or not. If you elected to pass on it, no related files would end up on your HDD.

loaba said:

CommonTater said:

I think it's all part and parcel of the same thing... Obviously a perfect operating system would have to be faultlessly secure and stable....

Then the perfect OS is a virtual impossibility.

Of course it is... and I knew that going in...

Code can be examined and holes can be found. The more code, the more holes. It's just that simple.

Windows greatest strength will always be it's greatest weakness; backward compatibility. In accommodating older software and hardware, a new OS has to pack in a lot of older legacy code. Again, more code ensures more chances for security issues.

One way around this would be a modular approach, perhaps something called a "legacy suite"? You could choose to include it during system install, or not. If you elected to pass on it, no related files would end up on your HDD.

This is one of the reasons my first point in the original message was that it would have to be modular. The smaller the granularity the better... I wouldn't want to see "suites" like with cars, where you have to get the 93 speaker stereo system in order to have cloth seats... Legacy hardware is usually a matter of drivers and it should only install the drivers you need not a load of crap you don't... Fewer holes... right?

Perfect OS