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Windows 7: The perfect operating system....

21 Apr 2010   #71
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lordbob75 View Post
I still maintain that no firewall can be 100% secure, no matter what. There will always be a way past it.
Simply not true... despite the monumental efforts taken by some... the first firewal in the chain only has to drop (i.e. not process) the packets and nobody is going to get into it no matter what they do. Really... If you need a visualization... you can spray your garden hose at someone and if they are on the other side of a closed window, they won't even know you've done it.

Quote:
CommonTater, that was a well written explanation, thank you. Still, no matter how secure you believe it can be, there are 2 problems:
1) Whether it is possible to actually combine them all (I don't actually know)
2) There will still be a way around it.
1) Even the lowly 4 port home router DOES combine everying I described.

2) No there won't.

Quote:
While I may sound paranoid or something saying all this, I am just saying that it is impossible for anything to be 100% secure.
Also, I am only in High School (senior) and I will be going to college as a Computer Engineer starting this September. I have zero experience working in the real world, and have yet to learn a lot of what most members on here already know.
That said, I don't mean that I don't know anything either...
Ahhh well, you'll find out soon enough....
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21 Apr 2010   #72
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

HAL 9000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But without the quirks and egomania of that in the movie. It's not clear if Hal is an OS, or simply hardware though. On the other hand, I do not believe that a sentient AI is even possible, and if it were, being a creation of man, could not be perfect. Imperfection creating perfection is an oxymoron.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Apr 2010   #73
Lordbob75

Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Mint 9
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lordbob75 View Post
I still maintain that no firewall can be 100% secure, no matter what. There will always be a way past it.
Simply not true... despite the monumental efforts taken by some... the first firewal in the chain only has to drop (i.e. not process) the packets and nobody is going to get into it no matter what they do. Really... If you need a visualization... you can spray your garden hose at someone and if they are on the other side of a closed window, they won't even know you've done it.

Quote:
CommonTater, that was a well written explanation, thank you. Still, no matter how secure you believe it can be, there are 2 problems:
1) Whether it is possible to actually combine them all (I don't actually know)
2) There will still be a way around it.
1) Even the lowly 4 port home router DOES combine everying I described.

2) No there won't.

Quote:
While I may sound paranoid or something saying all this, I am just saying that it is impossible for anything to be 100% secure.
Also, I am only in High School (senior) and I will be going to college as a Computer Engineer starting this September. I have zero experience working in the real world, and have yet to learn a lot of what most members on here already know.
That said, I don't mean that I don't know anything either...
Ahhh well, you'll find out soon enough....
Perhaps I will.
I suppose that I am including simply walking past the firewall and using an inside computer.

I think in the end this argument is rather pointless.
As you are saying, it does seem rather impossible to hack from a distance, but as I said, you can just walk in the building and use an inside computer that is on the INSIDE of the firewall (again, this is not plausible...).

But seriously, thanks for writing that up. It made more sense than trying to read the 6 links zzz supplied (no offense, just low on time).

~Lordbob
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.

21 Apr 2010   #74
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lordbob75 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
Really, I kid you not... This TV show stuff where some guy gets into a computer in 20 seconds or less, wrecks havoc on it and then leaves no trace... it simply that... TV show stuff. In real life it's as simple as "If you can't connect to it, you are crap out of luck."
Never once have I said it was easy or plausible.
I merely said it could be done.

I still maintain that no firewall can be 100% secure, no matter what. There will always be a way past it.

CommonTater, that was a well written explanation, thank you. Still, no matter how secure you believe it can be, there are 2 problems:
1) Whether it is possible to actually combine them all (I don't actually know)
2) There will still be a way around it.

While I may sound paranoid or something saying all this, I am just saying that it is impossible for anything to be 100% secure.
Also, I am only in High School (senior) and I will be going to college as a Computer Engineer starting this September. I have zero experience working in the real world, and have yet to learn a lot of what most members on here already know.
That said, I don't mean that I don't know anything either...

~Lordbob
See, Lordbob... In real world, you need to make sacrifices... Here's the analogy, if you want your home to be 100% break in proof, what would you do? The logical thing will be not making any doors, just concrete wall all around the house, including roof and floor. It becomes one impenetrable space, but what good would that be? You can't get in, right? That's why you have a door. With one door, you have one security hole already. How do you lock your door? you put a padlock on it. These are how the real world works.

It's the same in the internetwork world, can you have a 100% bulletproof firewall? I say YES - but there is a catch. Let's say we make 100% impenetrable but simple firewall, the first limitation is, you cannot in any way have an open port (this means no hosting your online game, no NAT OK in your Bittorrent clients, and similar limitation in apps that needs an open port). What you need is easy, 2 sets of your favorite broadband router, one will be facing your LAN, the other one will be facing your Internet. The connection diagram will look like this:

LAN >1st Firewall > 2nd Firewall > 3rd Firewall (presumably DSL modem) ---> Internet

Having 1 firewall in place already made MANY people have issues with closed ports, can't have green NAT indicator in BT clients, slow speed in BT apps, let alone THREE of them... This is just a simple form of impenetrable shield for your network. With CommonTater's explanation, this 3 layer of Firewalls is impenetrable... The setup I talked about few posts before has earth to moon distance difference in security level, auditing capabilities, safety measures, everything... It's like you used to your speed at crawling - to suddenly ride an ENZO Ferrari with it's 5 axis traction control, 500++ BHP at wheel, super fast transmission, computer assisted suspension, heaven and earth difference in every level... You know what IP address trying what port in your firewall, when, what the packet content is, is it dropped, if it's not dropped, who receive it, when, and what was the reply, why is it replying, and so on and so on and so on... You can control EVERY ASPECT of network traffic coming and going from and to your network. This is 100% bulletproof.

zzz2496
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Apr 2010   #75
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
HAL 9000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not clear if Hal is an OS, or simply hardware though
Neither really. He was initially programmed, which would make him software based but then he became an 'entity' unto himself. Loosely put, his hardware was just his 'body'.



The only 100% Safe Connection:

The perfect operating system....-antivirusoutyougo.jpg


My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Apr 2010   #76
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
HAL 9000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not clear if Hal is an OS, or simply hardware though
Neither really. He was initially programmed, which would make him software based but then he became an 'entity' unto himself. Loosely put, his hardware was just his 'body'.
I suppose, but I got the idea that Hal was run by crystals, which I assumed contained the programming, rather than merely power (Star Trek dilithium). Would such programming be called "software"?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Apr 2010   #77
Lordbob75

Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Mint 9
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
HAL 9000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not clear if Hal is an OS, or simply hardware though
Neither really. He was initially programmed, which would make him software based but then he became an 'entity' unto himself. Loosely put, his hardware was just his 'body'.
I suppose, but I got the idea that Hal was run by crystals, which I assumed contained the programming, rather than merely power (Star Trek dilithium). Would such programming be called "software"?
Technically, I would say so.

~Lordbob
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Apr 2010   #78
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Technically, is a concept that mutates depending on the current state of science, so it is not so "crystal" clear to me. Perhaps we should coin a term of "crystalware"...not to be confused with crystal ware...i.e. leaded glass.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Apr 2010   #79
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

LOL and of course we all know what we get if we shift HAL + 1 letter in the alphabet...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Apr 2010   #80
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
LOL and of course we all know what we get if we shift HAL + 1 letter in the alphabet...
"Although it is often conjectured that the name HAL was based on a one-letter shift from the name IBM, this has been denied by both Clarke and 2001 director Stanley Kubrick."
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