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Windows 7: Have mercy on the Less experienced!

10 Jul 2009   #21
Tepid

Win 7 Ultimate 32bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by cbleman View Post
reformating: There are still a lot of people that have no problrm with Vista.
Yes, and I am one of them.

Quote:
If all you do is go on the internet, get your mail, and perhaps create a few documents or use a couple of proven programs, you will not have a problem. It will do everything you want it to. there is no problem. If you realy want to USE the system to it's fullest extent (Networking, advanced user, Heavy multimedia and streaming), the blue screen of death starts showing up often.
This is Absolutely 100% not True. At all, not even a little bit true.
I do all those things and more and have never, not once, ever had a BSOD because of it. I also, RIP Home Movies from camcorder and build advanced DVD's for the family. I do heavy rendering with TMpeg, VDUB, Audio Converting, Photo Rendering.
I also heavily game on my system with Vista.
And you are absolutely incorrect on your assumptions, which appears to be saying that anyone who tries to do those things is going to experience the same problems you are. Which is not true.

Your system may not be up to the task, but I can assure you that mine very much is and has been since May of 2007.

Quote:
Who knows.... Maybe it's me messing up....
Yes. It is either you, Or your system just isn't what you thought it was supposed to be. But then a lot of people got ripped by the big OEM's or by trying to self build a system and totally under bought on hardware, or bought junk.

If it makes you feel better, yes, I have had maybe a total of 2 or 3 BSOD's since day one, and they were all my fault. I have not had a single one that was caused by windows in general, or software I have installed. I have had software crash on me, but it was not compatible and I had a feeling it would do so before I started so I knew what to expect. Infact, only that software crashed, and not everything else with it, unlike days of old XP.

I also work with Portable software testing and using. I download and install/uninstall a lot of software just checking it out. I clutter my system pretty good at times.

I have to do clean ups and maintenance (something that most people who complain about their PC's ,, DON'T DO).

I'm sorry, I don't mean to jack this thread, but it needs to be stated that your problems (even if they are reported by many) in windows usually are not windows problems, but user problems. You need to learn how to buy/build a better system and you won't have those problems. Do real regular maintenance with good software. And yes, it is hard to find, determine, there is so much crap out there.

Your generalization of .. (email and web only, don't try and really use your system or beware of BSOD's) is just uncalled for no matter how frustrated you are with YOUR PC. It is YOUR PC, that has the problem. It is NOT a general windows problem.

Don't get me wrong. Vista has some issues, not many, and is a very solid system overall on the right hardware. You obviously (and many others) made poor choices.

As for formatting regularly, No, never had to do it out of need that the system was in peril.
I have however had to do it for other reasons. Mainly cleanup and getting reorganized. And I have only done that a total of maybe 3 times.

I am however, now running Win7 7264 x86 and it still needs some polishing, Runs a bit faster and smoother than Vista in most areas, notably boot up and starting of apps.
Win 7 is another very solid system over all.

*******************

As to the original Topic. I have probably tried using every File manager on the market. And I still come back to Explorer. Vista/7 explorer is much better than XP. Although I do wish is was a bit more powerful.

Copenhagen is where Windows really needs to be at.
Too bad it ain't there yet.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
12 Jul 2009   #22
cbleman

XP Media Edition / Vista /Win 7 Home Premium
 
 

Good for you! It's true, Not everyone has problems with Vista. Just me, and others like me. Large groups of people all having the same or similar problems indicates to me, that there may be an actual problem, or there was a problem when the interface was designed. the latter is why this thread was started. As I said in the original post. perhaps it IS me. It's just that more people I talk to have had frustration with Vista than not. I'm glad you haven’t had problems.
You are also right about user problems. These are also some of the MOST frustrating things; and sometimes NOT the users fault! Have you tried switching from XP to Vista, and setting up a network connection to an FTP client? It's easy! ....If you can find out how to do it. My Network Places disappeared. The most logical place then, to look for a menu item to create a new network connection one would think, is under Network. Nope... Not there. Old menu items and icons disappear for no apparent reason, sometimes to surface buried under an array of options with no, or inadequate documentation. Change is good! ....but there must be a way to keep the re-learning curve down. hence the reason for the thread. It's a plea for KISS, when redesigning the interface. Yes.... I don't like Vista. But that wasn't the original purpose of the thread. Perhaps it was me that got off topic. I was just trying to make a point using Vista, and may have gotten carried away. It dosn't change the fact that people have problems with it; but that's a topic for another thread.
As far as hardware is concerned, Should I have to buy another computer every time a new operating system comes out, or should the new operating system keep (Slightly) older systems in mind. Yes... There is a point where harware is outdated. At what point is that? ....also a topic for another thread.

Running Vista on a new dell laptop, and Win7 on an HP Touchsmart. and XP on a Sony Vio Desktop
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Jul 2009   #23
Antman

 
New Coke

Perception IS reality.

Vista sucked, therefore, it failed. Vista failed, therefore, it sucked.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

12 Jul 2009   #24
Tepid

Win 7 Ultimate 32bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Antman View Post
Perception IS reality.

Vista sucked, therefore, it failed. Vista failed, therefore, it sucked.
Yes, and that is the point,,, among many the perception IS,,,

It's vista, therefore it sucks (i'll try it anyway on my old 4 year old PC without upgrading, or I have to because I need a new PC and it came with it, but I was only willing to spend 300 or 400$ on it, why is it sucking?> and it failed, therefore it sucks even more.

People should know what Minimum and Recommended Requirements means by now.
As all games/software/OS's come with them marked. And should know that the Minimum is to get a picture on screen and may be usable, but realize it will be degraded performance, with Recommended meaning it'll be a bit better, but you know you will need higher specs to make it work fully. And if you have been buying, using software for the last ten years and don't know that, then it is your ignorance that should frustrate you most.

And when it comes to an OS,....
Minimum means, don't install anything else
Recommended means, ok, you can install a few things
Want more, you need to provide more resources
That is the nature of all things computer, and should be well known by now.

*************

Quote:
As far as hardware is concerned, Should I have to buy another computer every time a new operating system comes out, or should the new operating system keep (Slightly) older systems in mind. Yes... There is a point where harware is outdated. At what point is that? ....also a topic for another thread.
In this case yes, you did, in the case of XP (de ja vu anyone?) yes you did.

Win 7 may run on a bit older system as they have streamlined it a bit more, but once you start loading it down with software (ITunes, Norton 360) and other junk, your system is going to choke.

Software advancements, (provide more functionality, and try to improve performance) but you can't have both. One has got to give. And you may need to add RAM to get a performance boost.

Either you advance or you stagnate. Vista is a huge advance, far more stable than XP has ever been (on the right hardware).

I blame ignorance of many, and the big OEM's for selling underpowered systems.

You get what you pay for, and everyone should know that when it comes to technology.

*********

See here ...

And pay very close attention to....

Additional requirements

Actual requirements and product functionality may vary based on your system configuration. Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor can help you determine which features and edition of Windows Vista will run on your computer.
While all editions of Windows Vista can support multiple core CPUs, only Windows Vista Business, Ultimate, and Enterprise can support dual processors.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Jul 2009   #25
Antman

 
A tepid response, not.

I purchased Vista, retail, at the same time that I built the system listed in my system specs. I also replaced my existing XP era/class video capture card, TV tuner card, and RAID controller card. I kept my SB X-Fi Platinum - it still performed the single function that I purchased it for.

Vista was pretty to look at. My beautiful wife liked using it much better than XP. To a certain degree, I liked it well enough, but somehow, I felt a bit removed from my hardware. Vista was just "too thick" for me. I dealt with driver issue after driver issue. After about three months, I removed it from my system. I also have several PC techs in my employ, many of them loathe Vista. On the other hand, one in particular sees it much the same way I do - as a revenue stream.

I have no pressing reason to abandon XP for Windows 7. XP does everything I use it for almost perfectly well. There are a few usage tweaks that I like in Vista and Win7, but the functionality of XP remains intact. Like many of the more experienced and truly knowledgeable members here, I am not as affected by some of the security issues as a number of you are. You sleep around, you get the clap.

Here, the OP has asked for mercy - he is due this mercy. The majority of users, likely 99%, are simply using a tool. They have no need or desire to be "computer geeks". They need their desktop to function reliably and completely, and to operate as easily as a telephone, fax machine, copier or coffee pot. It is in the audience where Vista failed. "I can't watch the video my sister sent in email because I need to spend another hundred dollars" is an "epic fail", to borrow a younger vernacular.

For those of us who are the geeks, nerds, and bit heads, the issues, problems and wizardry of our preferred OSes are exactly what they are. Who among you uses a single OS? Have mercy on my customers. They have provided me a nice home and livelihood and they are funding my children's education - the same way you might be funding your plumber's dreams.

BTW, I love Windows 7, insofar as you can love an OS.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Jul 2009   #26
cbleman

XP Media Edition / Vista /Win 7 Home Premium
 
 

"They need their desktop to function reliably and completely, and to operate as easily as a telephone, fax machine, copier or coffee pot. It is in the audience where Vista failed. "I can't watch the video my sister sent in email because I need to spend another hundred dollars" is an "epic fail", to borrow a younger vernacular."


Thank you Antman. If you need to purchase near top of the line equipment to get an OS to run properly, (And I don't think even that would help in my case.) the problem MAY lie with the OS.
I have had ill behaved programs crash and disappear off the screen without taking XP down. I cannot say the same about Vista. I too had driver problems, and other issues.
Vista is pretty to look at, and not everything is bad. ....but it DOES have to work first. If it works for you, GOOD! keep it. This is not a war. Be happy for yourself. Nobody else matters. (Just don't design software with that attitude. hehehe.)
Like Antmans techs, My initial trial of Vista lasted less than 90 days. It just didn't work for me. The only reason I have it on a laptop, is because of waranty threats. Even then; if this OS works out, Vista will disappear.

WIN 7 still needs quite a few tweaks, and polishing, but it looks like it's going to turn out to be a fairly stable OS. Stability and usability are what’s important to me right now. Pretty is low on the list. Cross platform compatibility (Windows) would be nice also. Playing with others is important. I posted the earlier FTP issue on the networking thread also. That seemed a good place for it. I still haven’t heard anything back. I would like to see that fixed, or an explanation of why a fix isn't needed.

I also wonder why I cannot get a folder view with a single picture on the folders (Like in XP) instead of the open folder look with pages sticking out. This is pretty low on the priority list, but if anyone has an answer......

My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Jul 2009   #27
Tepid

Win 7 Ultimate 32bit
 
 

As I said before, it is XP DeJa Vu all over again.

Every single one of the complaints on stability, looks and functionality were all expressed about XP when it first arrived. With all the same resistance to it. Now people can't/refuse to give it up. Almost all of them were fixed with hardware upgrades, namely RAM (for the most part) and Video. And 3rd Party Vendors slowly getting on board with proper drivers, and software. The same holds true with Vista.

Back then, People refused to give up 98SE and Win 2000 for all the same reasons express about Vista and soon, 7.

Back then, "Why can't I run XP on my 386/486 with 64M of ram and all my software?"
When it was found later that 512M was unheard of and the sweet spot.
Oh and today, in XP with newer setups and latest software, 1G is pretty much minimum for RAM if you want XP to run smoothly. So, it is not only the OS that should be taken into account when it comes to functionality/stability, you have to look at all of it as a whole.

What are you running (software wise), how good is the hardware/drivers. Am I providing enough resources? Is this the right OS for me?

Just cause you and other have had problems, doesn't make it the sole fault of the OS.
And refusing to look at all of it as a whole, you are just pointing fingers in the air and saying there's the dark cloud causing all my problems, even if is a 100 miles away, that's what I'm blaming for my problems, regardless of the real reason/s.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Jul 2009   #28
Antman

 

You may well be the most experienced and brilliant tech on staff, but we are running a business. The customer comes first. While you are correct, for the most part, in the whole of your argument, you are not progressing in the discussion. For refusing to see the big picture while insisting that you are focused on it, Tepid, you're fired.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Jul 2009   #29
cbleman

XP Media Edition / Vista /Win 7 Home Premium
 
 

Yes, Tepid, you are correct. XP did meet resistance, and did need post production tweaks. These I believe however were ironed out within 24 months.

BTB.... How long has vista been around?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Jul 2009   #30
fseal

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

28 months? And with Vista SP3 (Windows 7) it's good to go right?

I've been usig Vista since day one, before actually since RTM. I like the improvements to the UI and the small tweaks here and there in W7 a lot. But I have always loved Vista, it is a major improvement over XP in nearly every way. But frankly, W7 still has virtually every "problem" that made Vista "Suck".

Vista did not suck, but simple things like changing the name of the "Add/Remove" prgrams control panel to "Programs and settings" is enough to send some people into hysterics. I've whitnesed it live.

The only REAL difference in launching Vista and W7 is that 2.5 years out, enough hardware manufaturers have gotten on the ball with the new driver model that the initial hardware incompatibilities with W7 will be lower. But there are some Vista drivers that do not install on 7 due to poor installers Arg! All the UI changes that made people cringe are still there and even "worse" as far as the people that think Vista "Sucked" goes. As cool as the new task bar is, when released I expect a HUGE backlash against it

So yes, "impression is everything" and Vista's impression went south fast because of the jarring changes from XP coupled with unfortunate hardware incompatibilites because so many companies (HB, SB, etc) didn't take Vista seriously till it was too late. We can only hope that Vista has softned the blow by now and that W7 gets a fair chance by the mass public this time around. Frankly though, I'm not optimistic.
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 Have mercy on the Less experienced!




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