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Windows 7: Any ideas on how to replace Segoe UI 9pt with Tahoma 8?

12 Dec 2009   #1
ClassicWinFan

Windows 7/Windows XP
 
 
Any ideas on how to replace Segoe UI 9pt with Tahoma 8?

I'm not a fan of ClearType, it might work for some people/monitors, but not me and Windows 7's default font Segoe UI looks horrible without ClearType (and with it too actually). After changing all fonts to Tahoma 8 thru Personalize -> Window Color -> Advanced Appearance Settings, or even switching to Windows Classic theme Segoe UI still remains in a lot of places as the default system font, so I went into the registry and manually changed it to Tahoma, by doing this:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Fonts]

"Segoe UI (TrueType)"=""
"Segoe UI Bold (TrueType)"=""
"Segoe UI Italic (TrueType)"=""
"Segoe UI Bold Italic (TrueType)"=""

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes]

"Segoe UI"="Tahoma"

which worked beautifully, except the default Windows 7 system font's size is 9, which makes Tahoma looks pretty big. The default system font of XP and most of 7's Classic Theme is Tahoma 8, so I've been trying to figure out a way to change it from 9 to 8 to no avail. I don't think it can be done through the registry.

Has anyone thought of/tried the same thing and figured out a solution for the font size? Is there an app that can do this?


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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13 Dec 2009   #2
sergiogarcia9

 

You can change these font colors with WSB/VSB. But it's pretty advanced theme tool, you will need to have patched system files, and apply these font changes to the themes.

Ave's Vista Style Builder
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Dec 2009   #3
Eric G

Windows 7 x64
 
 
Windows Aero (Tahoma Font)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Aero Theme (Fixed) now outdated. See below.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Hello Everyone,

I'd like to offer my solution, which is an improvement upon that which ClassicWinFan is offering. I have figured out how to use Tahoma at 8pts in the Windows interface, in part thanks to the posts above.

In Windows 7 and Vista, one has the option to change portions of the user interface (UI) to whatever font he or she desires. Unfortunately it is not an option to change certain parts of the interface. After having thoroughly searched for a solution to change all instances of the Windows 7 UI font from Segoe UI to Tahoma (the old default in previous versions of Windows), I eventually found Steve Halpern’s NoSegoe solution. It simply uses the Registry to specify Tahoma (or any other font of your choosing) an alternative to Segoe. More information on NoSegoe can be found here: http://steve.fsxtrem...type-on-vista/. While this completely clears up the interface on screens that cannot properly render Cleartype and Segoe UI, things still look awkward. This is due to the fact that Segoe is generally used at a font size of 9pts, whereas Tahoma was always displayed at 8pts.

I was able to create my own solution to this problem by modifying the default Aero theme. The only changes made in my theme were to the font settings. All instances of Segoe UI where changed to Tahoma. Additionally, all 9pt instances (which constitutes most of them) were set to 8pts, the others were left at their default font size. The Aero theme was modified using Vista Style Builder (http://vistastylebuilder.com/).

My fixed Aero theme can be used by itself, however it will only replace instances of Segoe in the Windows user interface. External programs that are hard coded to use Segoe UI, even ones included with Windows 7, such as Calculator and Resource Monitor, will continue to use Segoe. For best results, and in order to completely eliminate Segoe UI, I recommend using NoSegoe in conjunction with the fixed Aero Theme. The Aero Theme (Fixed) package only works with Windows 7, however NoSegoe works with both Vista and 7.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Aero Theme (Fixed) Outdated

I have created an installer for what I previously referred to as "Aero Theme (Fixed)". I would highly recommend that anyone interested in it now use the installer for Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) instead.

Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) has four important improvements over Aero Theme (Fixed):
  1. Now supports Windows Vista in addition to Windows 7.
  2. All Aero-based themes automatically use Windows Aero (Tahoma Font). Previously, only the default theme took advantage of the font changes. If desired, Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) can still be installed along-side the standard Windows Aero, however this is not supported by the installer and, as such, must be done manually.
  3. Certain portions of the Windows interface no longer render incorrectly. This issue was due to the fact that I attempted to rename all of the files that aero.msstyles relies on but missed one. In my own experiences, it only affected the address bar in Firefox, but there are surely other programs that were negatively impacted as well.
  4. The Active Title Bar no longer needs to be set to Trebuchet MS at size 10. This setting is now built into aero.msstyles.


More information on Windows Aero (Tahoma Font), as well as downloads, can be found here.
_____________________________________
RightClick Computers: Computer Repair
Serving Bucks and Montgomery Counties, PA
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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06 Apr 2010   #4
dphreak

Windows 7 Pro
 
 

hi,Eric G i found your solution is the best one, i have researching this common problem with fonts over a month or so.Thank you for this. Is it possible to modify other theme to use same font as Aero Fixed?. Can u tell me what i need to change in order to achive this ? Thank you!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Apr 2010   #5
Eric G

Windows 7 x64
 
 

Hi dphreak,

I actually just released an updated version of Aero Theme Fixed, now called Windows Aero (Tahoma Font). In addition to having an installer, this new version has a couple other improvements. One of them is that all Aero-based themes automatically take advantage of Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) after it is installed. If you were looking to modify another Aero based theme to use Tahoma, you no longer need to worry about that.

In a second I'll be modifying my original post to reflect the updated version and provide a download link. If you're still interested in changing the fonts in visual styles yourself, you'll need to purchase Vista Style Builder. Keep in mind that what Microsoft refers to as a theme relies on a visual style. All Aero-based themes rely on aero.msstyles. Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) simply replaces the original aero.msstyles so that all Aero-based themes can use it without modification.

Once you have Vista Style Builder, start a new visual style (it's based off of your current aero.msstlyes) or load the one you wish to modify. After loading, set the Search box to "Values" and then type in "segoe". This will show you all instances of Segoe UI. For a list of what I changed specifically, refer to the Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) Readme.

By the way, thanks for your support. Let me know what you think of Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) if you decide to use it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 May 2010   #6
myfreexp

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

@Eric G

Great stuff, thank you for the effort. I have been searching for two days now for a real solution to the font size problem in Win7, and this seems to be the first (and so far only) overall working approach. Two questions:
  1. Do you know where to change the default font size if the Classic theme is active (i.e. no .msstyles is used at all)?
  2. I have just the opposite problem: On my VAIO 16,4" notebook screen, fonts are too small in the native resolution of 1920x1080. Would it be a big deal for you to provide aero.msstyles also in 9, 10 and 11 pt (currently I simply don't know what would suit me best)? Or is there a way to hexedit these values? Or should I better purchase the Vista Style builder?
Thanks again!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 May 2010   #7
Eric G

Windows 7 x64
 
 

Hi myfreexp,

Thanks! Unfortunately I have no idea how to edit a theme that doesn't use a .msstyles file. As for using Tahoma at any size other than 8pt, I'm worried that may cause some problems. There's the potential that, even at 9pt, text in many windows belonging to the Windows UI will run off the edge of the window. Additionally, changing the font size in a .msstyles file only affects the font size of Windows UI windows and not third-party programs. As such, and since it's quite time consuming and cumbersome to edit all of the font sizes in a .msstyles file (there are dozens of entries to change), I won't be able to do it for you. Rather than buying Vista Style Builder though, I'd highly recommend lowering your resolution (to another of the same aspect ratio of course). If you do decide to buy Vista Style Builder, follow the instructions I gave dphreak. If you need any other assistance, I'd be happy to help. Good luck.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 May 2010   #8
Kukag

Windows 7
 
 

I have purchased Vista Style builder and am more than willing to help out with any issues or changes you guys need. Just provide the theme file and what you'd like down and I should have it done for you about 20 - 30 mins after I get the actual file.

Thanks again and like I said just PM me or post here but if I don't respond here pm me!
Thanks,
Kukag
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 May 2010   #9
myfreexp

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

Thanks for feedback, Eric G.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Eric G View Post
Thanks! Unfortunately I have no idea how to edit a theme that doesn't use a .msstyles file.
Well, what I meant, was: If you're switching to classic theme, then I believe that the values stored in the aero.msstyles file have nil effect (and in this case the defaut font size must be stored somewhere else - registry most likely). I may be wrong, though, and shall test it as soon as I have my VAIO laptop available again.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Eric G View Post
As for using Tahoma at any size other than 8pt, I'm worried that may cause some problems. There's the potential that, even at 9pt, text in many windows belonging to the Windows UI will run off the edge of the window.
You're absolutely right, that will definitely happen (rstrui.exe for instance). But I simply can't stand this extremely tiny font all over the place, and will have to live with those downsides of using a larger font size in aero.msstyles.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Eric G View Post
Additionally, changing the font size in a .msstyles file only affects the font size of Windows UI windows and not third-party programs.
Again, you're right (I experienced that already). 3rd party programs (such as the Vista Style builder itself, but also MS apps!) respect the .msstyles values only partially (especially input masks do not). But well, I can do nothing about it... I simply like to see the larger font in as many places as possible. And the fonts in the task bar for instance can't be set via the standard display settings in Win7, you have to create your own .msstyles for that.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Eric G View Post
As such, and since it's quite time consuming and cumbersome to edit all of the font sizes in a .msstyles file (there are dozens of entries to change), I won't be able to do it for you.
No prob. In the meantime I got my hands on a licensed version of Vista Style Builder and instantly realized that indeed dozens of entries need to be changed. Plus that it's not enough just to increase the font sizes, also the metrics (height of task and title bars etc.) need to be adapted. This I still have to do, otherwise it looks pretty good already.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Eric G View Post
Rather than buying Vista Style Builder though, I'd highly recommend lowering your resolution (to another of the same aspect ratio of course).
IMHO not a good idea on an LCD notebook display with a native resolution - things will get blurry. Also setting the display to 125% or so is not a good option (that's why I'm here...)

As to Visual Style Builder and your installer: Isn't there an officially supported way to implement a second, third etc. etc. style in Win7? Following your instructions for a manual installation, I realized that some system files need to be patched (which works well, BTW). But what if these files will be overwritten some day by MS update? Then they need to be patched again, don't they?

I hoped that Vista Style builder would be able not only to create styles, but also to install them properly. But when I save a style and confirm the question if I now want to use it with the "Use Visual Style" button, nothing noticeable happens. Or am I missing something here...? Not sure, what "use" exactly means in this respect: "Use" it in the Style Builder or in Win7?

Also, I sometimes get a compilation error when trying to save a style. At a second attempt, it suddenly works (although I didn't change anything in the style).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 May 2010   #10
myfreexp

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kukag View Post
I have purchased Vista Style builder and am more than willing to help out with any issues or changes you guys need. Just provide the theme file and what you'd like down and I should have it done for you about 20 - 30 mins after I get the actual file.
Thanks for your friendly offer, but see my previous post: In the meantime I can play with Visty Style Builder myself and thus can test the effect of many more entries than I would be able to if I would always have to ask someone to change just one particular setting. Didn't know before how cumbersome this stuff is.

But others may very well be most thankful for the support you're offering.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Any ideas on how to replace Segoe UI 9pt with Tahoma 8?




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