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Windows 7: Any way to make folders in Start Menu - All Programs expandable

17 Jun 2010   #11
dunfiddlin

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zamar21 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dunfiddlin View Post
So why abandon it for something which you consider inferior?
I never said that. In fact, Win 7 is working very well, and its UI (which is a small part of it's code) is way better in many aspects compare to Win XP. What I'm saying, there was no need to abandon such proven features as cascadable folders in Start Menu, even so their look and feel could be different from XP folders, and that feature could be switched off by default to make an impression of an entirely different and thoroughly reworked OS (if UI can be a solid indicator of that - probably for some users ). As well, there was no folder expansion within XP Start Menu Pan on Mouse Hover, so your reference to that is strange, so to speak. But it should be in Win 7, because its a better more productive and convenient way to browse start menu, and the UI team is supposed to concentrate namely on these targets for the next SP. As to "never will be", its laughable, as everything in this world is in relative terms, not absolute. If All Programs is not a folder or shortcut to a user's Programs folder, how would you call this folder: C:\Users\Your_Name\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs ?
I would call that folder part of the resources called upon in the assembly of the All Programs Panel largely because it is just part. Unless you have manually arranged it thus there is no folder that contains all the constituents of this panel.

The XP start menu cascaded ... if that's not folder expansion, I don't know what is!

And as for being a more productive method, the W7 start panel can be brought up and completely navigated without your hands ever leaving the keyboard (which makes your earlier comment about selling more mice even more ridiculous!) and without needing to memorise weird key combinations - all you need is the arrow keys and Enter. How is that less productive than chasing cascading menus across the screen?


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17 Jun 2010   #12
zamar21

Win 7
 
 

Cascading Folders in Start Menu give a user a Bird View of installed programs scope at once. Some people have very large collections there, not possible to navigate efficiently by other means. Some create extra folder structure there to store closely related program shortcuts within to clear the common view. There was never an official reason given, why that feature, not particularly linked to any OS, was abandoned. I suspect that the reason was purely based on deficient marketing considerations proven to fail based on minuscule (on MS scale) Vista sales. When 7 was in the works, I suspect nobody timely turned attention of a Program Manager to that feature, otherwise it would be a part of the deal, as it costs nothing to add in exchange for a large number of satisfied users. Also, folder expansion within the Pan is not the same as cascading beyond it, but of similar "class". Example is All Programs content expansion on mouse hover.
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17 Jun 2010   #13
Ivo

Windows 7 Home 64, Vista Ultimate 64
 
 

My guess is that one of the design goals was to support tablets, netbooks and other mobile devices with limited screen size. Unfortunately this comes at expense of us desktop users with big monitors that are largely unused by the start menu. My guess may be wrong.
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17 Jun 2010   #14
zamar21

Win 7
 
 

This may be one of considerations, but it doesn't explain lack of "cascadable" option in Start Menu Prefs, and not fully working "expandable" option, which is already there. Another consideration may be lack of the issue priority at development time. And very stubborn ignorance of the web buzz about it since Vista times tells that some personalities and ambitions got on the way at some point, like "MY decision is FINAL", which in turn requires now higher involvement level to fix, or some time or event passage.
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18 Jun 2010   #15
zamar21

Win 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dunfiddlin View Post
I would call that folder part of the resources called upon in the assembly of the All Programs Panel largely because it is just part. Unless you have manually arranged it thus there is no folder that contains all the constituents of this panel.
I'd like to add some structure to above Programs folder, as it's getting too big to browse in All Programs Pan. Is there a way to replicate All Programs filter shortcut to add a few of them to above Programs folder and group Programs under them by category, creating a simple hierarchy? The view will get uncluttered, and these shortcuts will expand within All Programs Pan on mouse hover, providing fast and easy orientation, while preserving Win 7 UI style. It may be a good idea to enrich All Programs Panel in next SP by allowing a user to add such expandable filters, as they won't prevent complete programs uninstall, while greatly improving usability. It will also play well under mentioned "Single OS fits all PC sizes" vision, and bypass "obsolete" cascading folder concept, so no personalities clash expected. The only request would be to make folder expansion a bit faster.
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19 Jun 2010   #16
jebuchanan

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 (Retail)
 
 

Not wishing to get in the middle of this discussion, I just wanted to comment that I am one of those silent users that actually prefer the Start Menu as it is now over the way XP presented it.
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19 Jun 2010   #17
prospero

Windows 7 Professional 64-bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zamar21 View Post
Btw, if anyone wants to make a suggestion to MS on any improvement in Win 7, you can do it using this Feedback Form:

Give Us Feedback for Windows 7
I've been a Windows user since 3.1 and have gone through that and various incarnations: '95, '98SE, 2000, XP and now Windows 7 Pro and I've found (so far) 7 to be the best platform yet for speed, stability and usability.

Leave well alone, do you really want to add third-party software to your system?

Win 7 SP1 is, we are told, is on it's way; why not wait and see what's included in that - your issue might well be resolved there.
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19 Jun 2010   #18
zamar21

Win 7
 
 

I agree with you that Win 7 is awesome OS, as I commented above. The whole point is, I don't want to add any 3-d party utility to change its UI, but instead to have more flexibility and options available within it. Not sure, if SP1 will address any UI issues at all, since such changes are usually spared for major releases to push sales, not bug fixing SPs, despite the effort required to fix bugs and inadequacies can be a lot bigger. But since such option (expandable folders on mouse hover) already exists in Start Menu Prefs, there is a small hope it can be finalized to include other filters & folders in Start Menu apart from All Programs filter. The way to do it seems to be allowing to add such expandable filters within All Programs Pan, so that users can organize things there and avoid overcrowding. It may ONLY happen, if people express their need for such functionality. Simply waiting for MS to come with such solution after years of loud requests all over the web to return cascadable folders is naive - it won't happen without us.
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20 Jun 2010   #19
dunfiddlin

 

Well, heartening as it always is to hear from a true believer (no matter how strange the faith), has any of you actually addressed this wave of protest to Microsoft itself? Cos there's nothing more naive than expecting them to respond to (or indeed even read) whiny posts in niche forums! If you get your way and they do render the start menu unusable again I certainly won't be making my protests here (except to thank you personally for forcing me to resort to 3rd party launchers, of course!)
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20 Jun 2010   #20
zamar21

Win 7
 
 

Thanks for the suggestion. I posted my requests to the mentioned MS link, but they are usually processed on statistical basis, taking also myriad of other policy and marketing, and "what the boss wants" considerations first. Don't get it, how enabling the ability to add expandable filters in All Programs Folder can affect you, if you don't want to use it? It'll just allow to clear the view, but only if you installed a lot of programs and consider your view cluttered. Basically, File Manager like Win Explorer serves the same purpose on a larger scale. Do you question the need to have a file manager & organizer too? Btw, I do think that many ppl in MS read and participate in forums and blogs, and some of those do this for leaving as prime job duty. Its also typical for a lot smaller companies, and very useful for such consumer product giants.
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 Any way to make folders in Start Menu - All Programs expandable




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