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Windows 7: ATI Catalyst - Win7 64 updates

19 Mar 2010   #1
mjm64

win7 64 home premium
 
 
ATI Catalyst - Win7 64 updates

I don't know where to turn. I built a new machine to do photoshop CS4. I have throughly tested everything that I can and cannot find any hardware errors on the machine.

So my problem is as follows:

If I run any of the windows updates, my system blue screens with Stop 0x50 erros memory page fault errors. When you restart windows, the ATI Catalyst gives errors. It will blue screen in Safe Mode, and many of my programs just won't start. Like photoshop gives an error and crashes. Then it will work for 3-4 days no problem.

If I just do a clean install and load non of the microsoft updates, I have absolutely no issues.


I have tried using the ATI drivers that shipped in the CD with my motherboard. I have tried the drivers downloaded from my Gigabyte (motherboard manufacturer) as well as the latest drivers direct from ATI.

If I install the updates and try to roll back, it still crashes.


Is there something fundamentally wrong with Windows 7 and ATI?


The video card is part of the motherboard, so there is no way to remove it short of buying a new MB. I am beginning to wonder if Windows7 was just another bad Microsoft investment that I have made. Or do I just live with never doing another update as it seems stable right now. I am not looking to debug Microsofts OS as they sure are not paying me.

Matt.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
19 Mar 2010   #2
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mjm64 View Post


Is there something fundamentally wrong with Windows 7 and ATI?
In a word, no.

Quote:
The video card is part of the motherboard, so there is no way to remove it short of buying a new MB. I am beginning to wonder if Windows7 was just another bad Microsoft investment that I have made
If the machine is crashing insafe mode, it's nothing to with ATI drivers as safe mode uses Windows own generic VGA driver.

When you say you have tested your hardware, how and what was tested?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Mar 2010   #3
Seven Eleven

Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mjm64 View Post
Is there something fundamentally wrong with Windows 7 and ATI?
Aero on onboard HD 4200 with Catalyst 10.2 works like a charm here. so, nope.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

19 Mar 2010   #4
mjm64

win7 64 home premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post

If the machine is crashing insafe mode, it's nothing to with ATI drivers as safe mode uses Windows own generic VGA driver.

When you say you have tested your hardware, how and what was tested?
I don't know if the errors that I get when you boot Windows 7 after it get's into it's tizzy and blue screens have anything to do with what is going wrong.

ATI Catalyst comes up and says that it is not working. I have a dual monitor setup, and you loose the second monitor. And generally it just keeps on crashing every 5-10 minutes.

As for what and how I have tested this.

1. I have run memtest 4 doing a full battery of tests for 24hours. No errors generated.
2. I have run Prime95 inside of Windows 7 HomePrem. with not updates for 24+ hours with zero errors.
3. I have used Seagate's seatools on my hard drive to verify there are no bad sectors or errors on the disk. None
4. I have swapped all the memory to verify that it isn't a bad memory module.
5. I have tried removing memory to make sure there isn't a bad socket on the MB
6. I have checked the CPU for bent pins. Upgraded the Cooling Fan.
7. I have tried 2 different power supplies.

The problem starts when I allow windows 7 to download updates from the Microsoft update server. When the updates are installed, the computer bluescreens. This is even with no other software installed except what comes with the standard Win7 install and the drivers for components required by the MB suck as the ATI drivers.

I have not tried a different Windows 7 install disk as I refuse to repurchase software that may not work especially when you are having problems with a very new system that says it is Win7 compatible.

Matt.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2010   #5
smarteyeball

 
 

You've certainly run the full gamut of tests and I can understand your frustration. (know the feeling well )


When you installed the different ATI driver versions, did you un-install the existing drivers first, or just install over the top of them?

At this stage, it may be worthwhile un-installing ATI Catalyst Install Manger (which will remove both CCC and drivers) via the Control panel > Uninstall Programs , re-booting into safe mode, running driver sweeper to clean/remove all the ATI components, re-booting normally and then re-installing the latest CAT drivers.

Guru3D - Driver Sweeper

However the fact it's fine with zero updates and yet it blue screens even in safe mode after updates, suggests that the problem may lie elsewhere.

CCC errors, loosing the 2nd monitor etc may just be a symptom, and not a cause. As a normal non-updated installation still uses the default ATI WHQL driver, and as I mentioned earlier, safe mode uses the generic VGA driver.

If you are forced to do yet another fresh installation, it may be worthwhile installing the updates individually, instead of installing them all at once automatically.



Also, do you have you any unknown devices / warning symbols showing up in Device manager?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2010   #6
stormy13
Microsoft MVP

Win 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote:
The problem starts when I allow windows 7 to download updates from the Microsoft update server
If any of those are motherboard or video drivers, don't install them. This is one of those things that I don't care how much it is supposed to be improved over previous Windows versions, you do not ever install a driver for a major component from Windows Update.

For your video and motherboard get them from here,

Drivers & Support | GAME.AMD.COM

don't bother getting them from Gigabyte as they are several months and driver releases behind.

One quick question, how are your two monitors connected?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2010   #7
mjm64

win7 64 home premium
 
 

I have installed windows 7 on this computer about 14 times. Wasted well over a week trying to figure this one out. Part of me says that the machine was purchased to do one thing,.. Photoshop. So I might as well not bother with doing any updates. Not as if I am surfing on the internet with it, or running programs that I have not purchased from a known company.

Quote:
When you installed the different ATI driver versions, did you un-install the existing drivers first, or just install over the top of them?
No, I installed newer versions with a clean install. I was trying to isolate any potential problems with drivers.

Quote:
If you are forced to do yet another fresh installation, it may be worthwhile installing the updates individually, instead of installing them all at once automatically.
The only problem is that there are too many updates to do a try every combination test. Also, I bought the machine to use, not debug Microsofts mistakes. It's pretty sad affair if a MS update kills a computer. As you said, in safe mode it is not supposed to be using the 3rd party video drivers... not knowing if they are really causing the problem or getting taken out by something else.

I just lament back to my old XP install that just worked. I however need 64bit OS to do my work. If it wasn't for the AMD I might look into a Hackintosh.. I'm told they are the best thing since sliced bread... or at least thats what the commercial on TV says.

Guess time will tell if they fix the bugs. Will wait for SP2... statistically that is when the bugs get fixed.


Matt.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Mar 2010   #8
smarteyeball

 
 

Without knowing the exact reason for the failure, it's impossible to know who to actually blame.


If it's a Seven specific update that is causing the problem, then the finger of blame should indeed be rightly pointed at MS.

However, if it's an 'optional / recommended update' which is from a 3rd party that is causing the issue, then it's not actually Microsoft's fault. The onus and blame rests on the manufacturer. Regardless, it's little comfort when all you want to do is 'just use your machine' for work, I know.

A quicker way to eliminate the updates combination would be to install the 'important' MS updates in 'batches' rather than individually. For example if you had 20 updates to install, only install 5 at a time. No Blue Screen, do the next 5 etc Rinse, repeat, swear, sigh.

At the very least, only install the 'important' updates and none of the 'optional / recommended' updates. At least this will potentially and hopefully narrow down the cause to a MS specific update, or a 3rd party one.

Whilst it certainly is possible to use the machine without updates, it's still not a desirable one. Then again, a crashing PC is even less desirable.


When you mentioned it still crashed after 'rolling back' - were you referring to using a restore point or just removing the updates via the control panel?

If / when it crashes again, it may be worthwhile zipping the contents of C:\Windows\minidump and uploading the zip file and creating a new thread in 'Crashes and Debugging' section of the forum where those who analyze Crash dumps may have a better chance of back tracing to the faulting component / module. (Just provide a link to this thread to save a bit of time on repeating yourself)


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mjm64 View Post
I might look into a Hackintosh.. I'm told they are the best thing since sliced bread... or at least thats what the commercial on TV says.
If I didn't know you were frustrated before - this confirms it

TV commercials promise me a lot of things too. The same TV will tell me in one ad that sliced bread is fantastic yet the next ad can tell me that sliced bread can kill you...

Quote:
Guess time will tell if they fix the bugs. Will wait for SP2... statistically that is when the bugs get fixed.
Matt.
Which is around the time that your lamented XP started to 'just work'

Current company excluded (I've personally seen far more Blue screens in Seven than I did with either XP or Vista), statistically, pre-Service Pack Seven is definitely a lot more stable than any other pre-service pack release of Windows. The majority of problems either stem from incompatible 3rd party drivers or failing / incorrect hardware settings.

(My Blue Screens were always either 3rd party driver or h/ware related. It didn't stop me from cursing at Seven though )
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Mar 2010   #9
blackramair

windows 7
 
 

Does it do it with only 1 monitor connected to the computer? Could be a issue trying to run dual monitors on onboard video.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Mar 2010   #10
mjm64

win7 64 home premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
Without knowing the exact reason for the failure, it's impossible to know who to actually blame. If it's a Seven specific update that is causing the problem, then the finger of blame should indeed be rightly pointed at MS.
You are correct. I think that the only two optional updates that were included were for the display screens. I didn't think that having the settings for a NEC and Dell monitor would do much harm, but I will try the update without them and see what happens.

Quote:
A quicker way to eliminate the updates combination would be to install the 'important' MS updates in 'batches' rather than individually. For example if you had 20 updates to install, only install 5 at a time. No Blue Screen, do the next 5 etc Rinse, repeat, swear, sigh.

Whilst it certainly is possible to use the machine without updates, it's still not a desirable one. Then again, a crashing PC is even less desirable.
Well, I will give it a try with the Security updates.. Let's se the list. KB971468, KB972270, KB974571, KB975467, KB975560 & KB978251. 6 in total.. we will give it a few weeks to see if this is stable.

Quote:
When you mentioned it still crashed after 'rolling back' - were you referring to using a restore point or just removing the updates via the control panel?

If / when it crashes again, it may be worthwhile zipping the contents of C:\Windows\minidump and uploading the zip file and creating a new thread in 'Crashes and Debugging' section of the forum where those who analyze Crash dumps may have a better chance of back tracing to the faulting component / module. (Just provide a link to this thread to save a bit of time on repeating yourself)
Uninstall through the Control Panel option for installed service packs. As for the crash dump.. if I run into problems I will definitely link back to this thread and see about how to do that minidump option. Is there anything that I would need to setup on my end so that this dump is automatically generated, or is windows setup to do that automatically?

Thanks for the help.

Matt.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 ATI Catalyst - Win7 64 updates




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