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Windows 7: ShellFolderFix - Manage folder window positions/size

03 May 2010   #181
tweaker

w7-64, w2k
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by koalacarlo79 View Post
I want to suggest a feature: like sizer of brianapps, i want to set some default sizes to apply to the windows (right click on windows border)...
I can look into it, allthough I suspect it would have some technical requirements which differ too much from the current functionality. Keep in mind that this app only deals with folder windows, unlike Sizer which works on all apps. I take it Sizer doesn't work on win7?

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kazink View Post
The program doesn't seem to work for me, not in the way it should at least. For Save/Restore workspace and when it starts at Windows start it restores folders at random positions on the desktop (sometimes with weird sizes), but when I open and close the program without restarting Windows it seems to restore the folders just right. I tried both 64 and 32-bit versions (without installer), also tried the /portable switch - no luck, except that 32-bit version works more strange: with the first using of Load Workspace option it restores folders at random places, and when I click Load Workspace again it does nothing but flashing folder buttons on taskabar. I can provide more details, including the database file and screenshots if it helps solving the problem. Just tell me if I should post them here or send directly to you. I have Polish version of Windows 7, could that be a reason for the problem? (However, none of the opened folder titles contained polish national characters when I performed the tests).
If you use 64bit windows then the 32-bit version of the app can never work as it should (and vice versa), so there's no need to involve that for testing.

For some reason it appears that the app doesn't receive events for tracking folder windows (when starting the app it works because it actively scans for open windows and doesn't rely on event notifications). One possible reason could be that some other (badly written ) app is gobbling up the events and not passing them on like they're supposed to. Do you have any other similar app running or other shell/explorer extensions? Or maybe running Window Manager too?


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04 May 2010   #182
kazink

Windows 7 - 64, Windows XP
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tweaker View Post
For some reason it appears that the app doesn't receive events for tracking folder windows (when starting the app it works because it actively scans for open windows and doesn't rely on event notifications). One possible reason could be that some other (badly written ) app is gobbling up the events and not passing them on like they're supposed to. Do you have any other similar app running or other shell/explorer extensions? Or maybe running Window Manager too?
Well, the only app I have that could mess with this, as I think, is Classic Shell, so I have uninstalled it, created a new user for testing and disabled antivirus (NOD32) just to make sure. There was no other software (including window managers) running in background other than touchpad driver and antivirus (I didn't want to remove them from autostart, but I can try if you think that may help).
I think it's very unlikely that the events could cause this (or at least it's not the only source), because of the following observations (I'm not a Seven expert, but I know what messages are ):
1. I click Save Workspace, then Restore Workspace - widows get placed in random positions. I click Restore Workspace - again windows get placed in random positions different from the previous positions. Another click and they get different positions again. If it was for messages, I think they should get always placed at the last positions that made it into the database (or not moved at all in case no position has been stored for particular window yet).
2. The same randomness applies to the case when the app starts with the system, even if I choose "Save database now" or close the app before rebooting, only sometimes it manages to restore the windows properly (but it happened once or twice only - it seems random too).
3. When browsing through folders it works perfectly fine - when I use the "When navigating to new location: Update folder" option, the window sizes and positions are updated as they should to the last values they had.

I'm still thinking about the case in point 2, that it puts windows in random positions even if I manually close the app before restarting the system. This is strange, because this should be technically the same case to when I restart the app manually without restarting the system. I have checked it and the only difference is that that the app is started before the folder windows appear on the desktop. if I then close the app and run it again the windows will get updated correctly. I though that it might be that the app couldn't properly detect opening the last folders by Windows Explorer, but I see that the "Restore last folder windows on login" option in the Windows' folder options is disabled, so I'm confused. It seems that ShellFolderFix restores the windows properly when started manually, but not when started automatically with the system (using the built-in auto-start option).

Just checked: when I disable built-in autostart and manually add the app to the Autostar folder in the Start Menu it restored the folders properly (it didn't work when I last tried it), so the problem is worked around. But it would be better to have the regular autostart and workspaces working .
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2010   #183
jr1421

Windows 7
 
 

From the mini-FAQ:
"Q: My view layout ... settings are not properly restored for folders, is something wrong?
A: No, it works as it should. Currently ShellFolderFix does not affect ... layout ..., even though I'd like to add support for it in future if possible. Only window position and size are affected/restored."

Any updates on when/if this feature will be implemented in the future? Note, I'm not talking about "view" settings, such as list or details. I'm talking about layout, under organize->layout. I don't need every folder to have the details pane & navigation pane, but I'd prefer not to turn them off for every folder. I hope this can be made possible in future releases of shellfolderfix. Even if not, thanks so much for making this software available.

Sigh...microsoft, why must you always take two steps back to take one forward?
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04 May 2010   #184
tweaker

w7-64, w2k
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kazink View Post
I think it's very unlikely that the events could cause this (or at least it's not the only source), because of the following observations (I'm not a Seven expert, but I know what messages are ):
1. I click Save Workspace, then Restore Workspace - widows get placed in random positions. I click Restore Workspace - again windows get placed in random positions different from the previous positions. Another click and they get different positions again. If it was for messages, I think they should get always placed at the last positions that made it into the database (or not moved at all in case no position has been stored for particular window yet).

...

Just checked: when I disable built-in autostart and manually add the app to the Autostar folder in the Start Menu it restored the folders properly (it didn't work when I last tried it), so the problem is worked around. But it would be better to have the regular autostart and workspaces working .
To be more specific, it doesn't use normal windows messages but a windows hook. Every registered hook (by an application) is responsible for passing on a received "event", a badly/nasty written app could omit doing that and breaking other apps.

Restoring a workspace also relies on receiving events for each restored windows so that it sizes/positions it correctly right after it's opened. Should it for some reason fail to receive an event, the restored window would end up at a random size/pos like you describe. In any case, another app is not the issue here since you say normal usage works. I was under the wrong impression that it never worked.

I had some problems with that when starting up windows when the windows option to restore windows was also enabled, which I found a solution for that appeared to work (as in I haven't had any issue for months now). That shouldn't affect restoring workspaces though, so that part is a bit confusing. Not sure at the moment what the problem could be.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jr1421 View Post
From the mini-FAQ:
"Q: My view layout ... settings are not properly restored for folders, is something wrong?
A: No, it works as it should. Currently ShellFolderFix does not affect ... layout ..., even though I'd like to add support for it in future if possible. Only window position and size are affected/restored."

Any updates on when/if this feature will be implemented in the future? Note, I'm not talking about "view" settings, such as list or details. I'm talking about layout, under organize->layout. I don't need every folder to have the details pane & navigation pane, but I'd prefer not to turn them off for every folder. I hope this can be made possible in future releases of shellfolderfix. Even if not, thanks so much for making this software available.
Nothing new on that yet I'm afraid. Too much other stuff to do, and not enough time
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2010   #185
jr1421

Windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tweaker View Post
Nothing new on that yet I'm afraid. Too much other stuff to do, and not enough time
No problem - thanks for letting me know
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 May 2010   #186
kazink

Windows 7 - 64, Windows XP
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tweaker View Post
To be more specific, it doesn't use normal windows messages but a windows hook. Every registered hook (by an application) is responsible for passing on a received "event", a badly/nasty written app could omit doing that and breaking other apps.
I have some (little) experience with hooks too, so I know what you're talking about

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tweaker View Post
Restoring a workspace also relies on receiving events for each restored windows so that it sizes/positions it correctly right after it's opened. Should it for some reason fail to receive an event, the restored window would end up at a random size/pos like you describe. In any case, another app is not the issue here since you say normal usage works. I was under the wrong impression that it never worked.
And the winner is... Classic Shell, unfortunately . Actually, only the Classic Explorer part. I have installed it again (the newest 1.9.6 RC version), and then SFF started to 'randomize' windows restoring while it was either closed/run manually or run by the shortcut in the Autostart folder. That's why it seemed the app wasn't working good at all before. I see the author of Classic Shell is registered here too. It would be nice if you two get in touch to solve the problem on whichever side it is .

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tweaker View Post
I had some problems with that when starting up windows when the windows option to restore windows was also enabled, which I found a solution for that appeared to work (as in I haven't had any issue for months now). That shouldn't affect restoring workspaces though, so that part is a bit confusing. Not sure at the moment what the problem could be.
Based on what you said I have made more discoveries:
1. The app is working when put in the Start Menu -> Autostart folder manually. I thought it was working always, but now it seems it's not true. It works good only if the system manages to restore the last folder windows before ShellFolderFix starts. If it SFF starts before or during restoring the windows, their positions get randomized.
2. Closing and running SFF manually doesn't close and reopen existing folder windows, it just sets positions <- this works good (not counting the Classic Shell issue).
3. Saving and restoring the workspace do closes all the existing folder windows and recreates them already in target positions <- this seems to work improperly.

I suppose in case 1 SFF decides which method (from case 2 or 3) to use depending at which point it is started, that's why it sometimes works good and sometimes bad. And I suppose when using autostart option in SFF the program is always started before system folder windows restoring, that's why the problem always occurs then.

If you have an idea for a program (or a test-mode SFF version) collecting information that could help you find the source of the problem, I would be happy to run it on my machine and/or perform some more specific tests. I'm so desperate to have this functional .
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 May 2010   #187
johngalt

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kazink View Post
1. The app is working when put in the Start Menu -> Autostart folder manually. I thought it was working always, but now it seems it's not true. It works good only if the system manages to restore the last folder windows before ShellFolderFix starts. If it SFF starts before or during restoring the windows, their positions get randomized.
2. Closing and running SFF manually doesn't close and reopen existing folder windows, it just sets positions <- this works good (not counting the Classic Shell issue).
3. Saving and restoring the workspace do closes all the existing folder windows and recreates them already in target positions <- this seems to work improperly.

I suppose in case 1 SFF decides which method (from case 2 or 3) to use depending at which point it is started, that's why it sometimes works good and sometimes bad. And I suppose when using autostart option in SFF the program is always started before system folder windows restoring, that's why the problem always occurs then.

If you have an idea for a program (or a test-mode SFF version) collecting information that could help you find the source of the problem, I would be happy to run it on my machine and/or perform some more specific tests. I'm so desperate to have this functional .
Hmmm. WinPatrol has a delayed start method that allows you to delay how long an app will autostart - for example, I have several IM clients running, so to help speed my desktop and limit their interference I have delayed them all by a minimum of 1 minute, and each loads in a 30 second increment after the last, up to 2.5 minutes.

End result - my IM clients load, but after I am already running around doing things like loading apps / Thunderbird, etc.

I wonder if this can be applied to SFF once you place it in AutoStart, so that you could *force* it to wait until after every folder loads to then start running?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2010   #188
Ivo

Windows 7 Home 64, Vista Ultimate 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kazink View Post
And the winner is... Classic Shell, unfortunately . Actually, only the Classic Explorer part.
Can you try to disable the Classic Explorer features one by one to see if you can find which one is causing the problem? I am away from home and can't do anything till the end of the month aside from posting here.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2010   #189
kazink

Windows 7 - 64, Windows XP
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Ivo View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kazink View Post
And the winner is... Classic Shell, unfortunately . Actually, only the Classic Explorer part.
Can you try to disable the Classic Explorer features one by one to see if you can find which one is causing the problem? I am away from home and can't do anything till the end of the month aside from posting here.
This is very strange, but after installing CS again to make the tests the problem has gone. I tried changing several settings, including restoring it to state when it caused problems before, and it doesn't cause problems any more. I suppose I made a mistake, and the problem was caused by something else or it was a random issue (I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case ).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2010   #190
johngalt

 

What if this happened:

You installed CS, and then rebooted and a Windows Update hosed SFF....

You then installed CS again, which actually reverted the changes made by said Windows Update, and presto, it works again?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 ShellFolderFix - Manage folder window positions/size




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