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Windows 7: Bioshock not working. DX11?

03 Nov 2009   #21
crimson

Windows 7 Retail
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by crimson View Post
Windows 7 comes standard with DirectX 11. What is unclear is whether or not DX11 is backwards compatible. Also whether W7 has DX9 or DX10 preinstalled.

For people that installed certain games that ran fine on W7, it is possible that those games installed DX9. However, on a clean install of W7, everything remains unclear.
Did you not see this post?

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post

Quote:
While Windows 7 is fully compatible with games and hardware that use older versions of DirectX, the new DirectX 11 features are available with a DirectX 11 compatible graphics card and games designed to take advantage of this new technology.

Also, if you read the brief description here Download details: DirectX End-User Runtime and look at system requirements you will see that DX9 is part of Windows 7
Hint...

DirectX End-User Runtime Web Installer Brief Description

August 2009
The Microsoft DirectX® End-User Runtime provides updates to 9.0c and previous versions of DirectX — the core Windows® technology that drives high-speed multimedia and games on the PC.

Key operative word in the above statement is "update" to 9.0c

More info...

System Requirements
  • Supported Operating Systems: Windows 2000; Windows 2000 Advanced Server; Windows 2000 Professional Edition ; Windows 2000 Server; Windows 2000 Service Pack 2; Windows 2000 Service Pack 3; Windows 2000 Service Pack 4; Windows 7;
Note Windows 7

A little reading would help clear things up
Yes. I saw that post. I forgot to mention that I couldn't find what you were talking about on that page. It doesn't say whether or not DX9 is installed on W7. Furthermore, that download doesn't update anything. It's the web installer for DX9 latest version DX 9.27.17349.

Installer download: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...1-442d8712d553

Web installer: Download details: DirectX End-User Runtime

Neither of those are updaters for DX9. Both of those are the latest MS updates to DX9 (latest updated versions of DX9). Thus, if you install that, what you are doing is installing the latest version of DX9.

The statement " Microsoft DirectX® End-User Runtime provides updates to 9.0c" is not very good. What it is saying is that this installer includes 9.0c updates meaning it is the updated version of DX 9.0c.

It doesn't mean DX9 is preinstalled in W7. Unless you know for sure that DX9 is preinstalled in W7, you're possibly missinforming people that it is. We do not know if DX9 was there prior to your game installations which install DX9. I tried to run a game that I installed by bypassing the DX9 installation. Which leads me to the conclusion that:
1. DX9 is probably not preinstalled in W7. Only DX11.
2. DX11 isn't backards compatible.

Also, the DX9 that installs with Bioshock isn't even the latest version. It's a 2007 version of DX9. DX11 isn't even backwards compatible with that. I don't know why.


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03 Nov 2009   #22
mushroomboy

Windows 7, Linux
 
 

Win7 comes with DX9 on it but it's not up to date. Why? Because when they started the 7000 builds I'm guessing DX9 wasn't what it is now... When they do new builds of windows it doesn't mean they incorporate new DX9 it means they incorporate new windows accessories/programs and you update DX9 yourself. That's why most games come with a certain version of DX9, because if a person doesn't have this amazing internet they can play the game because the version of DX it needs comes with it.

And to clarify DX10 IS NOT BACKWARDS COMPAT WITH DX9!!!!!!!!!!!! They are so different, what they utilize is compeletly different. As well as DX11 won't work with 10 or 9. That's why DX has versions and the hardware you get says what it supports. Because they have to A) have the physical hardware/firmware built for it and B) they have to have the program/game run specific DX functions.

So yes windows 7 yas DX9/10/11 but they aren't up to date. It's just they don't updated DX9 on Win7 every time it comes out with an update, you would have to create a new install disc every time, that may not seem like much work but it's a lot cheaper to just let the consumer do the updates.
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04 Nov 2009   #23
crimson

Windows 7 Retail
 
 

Bioshock comes with a 2007 version of DX9. Bioshock didn't run on W7 without the need to install this or any version of DX9. That is why I've concluded that DX9 doesn't come on W7.

And that DX11 isn't backwards compatible. It says on Wikipedia that DirectX 11 will have compatibility modes for 9, 10, and 10.1. Not sure what this is or how it works.
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04 Nov 2009   #24
mushroomboy

Windows 7, Linux
 
 

Compatibility API's are the same way 32bit programs run on 64bit OS's. Really you still have all the libraries and files, it just converts the calls over to the newer format. 8, 9, and 10 all come on Win 7, it's just no updates the base DX. I guess the other reason they do that is space, make a bare minimum, for those who don't need it installed.
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04 Nov 2009   #25
crimson

Windows 7 Retail
 
 

What do updates have to do with it? If W7 came with DX9, Bioshock should work.
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04 Nov 2009   #26
mushroomboy

Windows 7, Linux
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by crimson View Post
What do updates have to do with it? If W7 came with DX9, Bioshock should work.
They have everything to do with it, they ship a stripped down version of DX9. If you don't like how or why they do it then you should probably ask MS. I have a fresh install of Win7 on my computer now and the files that come with it are d2d1.dll d3d8thk.dll d3d9.dll d3d10.dll d3d10_1.dll d3d10_1core.dll d3d10core.dll d3d10level9.dll d3d10warp.dll d3d11.dll All those files are DX files in sys32, but since you don't have the added files such as d3d9_41.dll ect you don't have the full library which means it's a stripped DX9, which means they ship it with a stripped DX9. Why? Maybe they just had it in for testing and didn't bother to intagrate the full DX9. Maybe they had space issues and didn't put everything in because of that? They could have possible compiled the OS with a size projection and got it smaller than they anticipated. Who knows, but it's stripped down so you need the updates for DX9.
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05 Nov 2009   #27
crimson

Windows 7 Retail
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by crimson View Post
What do updates have to do with it? If W7 came with DX9, Bioshock should work.
They have everything to do with it, they ship a stripped down version of DX9. If you don't like how or why they do it then you should probably ask MS. I have a fresh install of Win7 on my computer now and the files that come with it are d2d1.dll d3d8thk.dll d3d9.dll d3d10.dll d3d10_1.dll d3d10_1core.dll d3d10core.dll d3d10level9.dll d3d10warp.dll d3d11.dll All those files are DX files in sys32, but since you don't have the added files such as d3d9_41.dll ect you don't have the full library which means it's a stripped DX9, which means they ship it with a stripped DX9. Why? Maybe they just had it in for testing and didn't bother to intagrate the full DX9. Maybe they had space issues and didn't put everything in because of that? They could have possible compiled the OS with a size projection and got it smaller than they anticipated. Who knows, but it's stripped down so you need the updates for DX9.
Yes. But what relevance does this have to the updated version of DX9? So either they don't have DX9 installed or they have a stripped down version of DX9 installed. Either way, DX9 old version or updated version doesn't seem to be installed. In fact, it's unclear what is installed. What does DX11 look like. Are you saying those files that you mentioned aren't part of DX11? What are you basing all this information on? IOW where did you find out DirectX9 is in W7 or where did you find out a stripped version of it is installed?
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05 Nov 2009   #28
mushroomboy

Windows 7, Linux
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by crimson View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by crimson View Post
What do updates have to do with it? If W7 came with DX9, Bioshock should work.
They have everything to do with it, they ship a stripped down version of DX9. If you don't like how or why they do it then you should probably ask MS. I have a fresh install of Win7 on my computer now and the files that come with it are d2d1.dll d3d8thk.dll d3d9.dll d3d10.dll d3d10_1.dll d3d10_1core.dll d3d10core.dll d3d10level9.dll d3d10warp.dll d3d11.dll All those files are DX files in sys32, but since you don't have the added files such as d3d9_41.dll ect you don't have the full library which means it's a stripped DX9, which means they ship it with a stripped DX9. Why? Maybe they just had it in for testing and didn't bother to intagrate the full DX9. Maybe they had space issues and didn't put everything in because of that? They could have possible compiled the OS with a size projection and got it smaller than they anticipated. Who knows, but it's stripped down so you need the updates for DX9.
Yes. But what relevance does this have to the updated version of DX9? So either they don't have DX9 installed or they have a stripped down version of DX9 installed. Either way, DX9 old version or updated version doesn't seem to be installed. In fact, it's unclear what is installed. What does DX11 look like. Are you saying those files that you mentioned aren't part of DX11? What are you basing all this information on? IOW where did you find out DirectX9 is in W7 or where did you find out a stripped version of it is installed?

Well I've been dealing with libraries and dependencies probably a lot more than you, I run linux and that has a much more interlaced setup with libraries. When I say stripped you can also say core libraries, enough for compatability and to run the bare requirements for DX9.

DirectX Problem

There is another thread with the issues, if you knew how the OS runs and the different levels of security you'd understand where to look for the different files. Every file has it's place in the Windows dir, if you have dealt with modifying windows (or any OS based off a kernel with run levels) you would know the different file setups and what they actually do for the OS. So in short I know because I program, that's why I know. It's not unclear, it's very clear... I said it's stripped down, meaning it will run DX9 but the BARE REQUIREMENTS. Go get a compiler and make a program to do all the base DX9 calls and build it then run it.... it runs!!! There is a huge difference between the DX9 that first came out and the DX9 that runs COD4. When I mean differences I mean the functions calls. See DX9 is really just a library of functions for video, if it's not updated and a program calls functionX you get epic failure. That happens when you run the core DX9 instead of the updated. Now if you run a program that was built when DX9 first came out it might call functionA instead of functionX. FunctionX is newer and looks better, but is only in new games as it is only in the new updated DX9.

I know this sounds mean, but people should stop assuming something isn't their just because you get the error "blah blah won't work".
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Nov 2009   #29
chiefboo

Win7 Pro (6.1, build 7600)
 
 

hey guys. i'm trying to get bioshock working as well. I"ve tried to download the installer from the link provided in this thread but i keep getting an error message upon installation that says:

An Internal System Error Occured
Please refer to DXError.log and DirectX.log in your windows folder to determine problem.

Please help.. i really want to be bioshock! i even drove 40 minutes to pick up a copy!

also... bioshock said it was updating directX components during installation... why wouldn't it work then?

When i load bioshock.exe it says "Bioshock.exe has stopped working..." and something along the lines of Windows will search for a resoluation and never get back to you or help you in your time of relatlve crisis.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Nov 2009   #30
mushroomboy

Windows 7, Linux
 
 

we need a post of your bioshock log. and this is really unrelated to windows not having DX9 so much as the DX9 doesn't work. So you should start a new thread with your directx.log printed out
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 Bioshock not working. DX11?




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