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Windows 7: Building a gaming rig. First timer.

26 Apr 2010   #61
not so gray matter

W7 Ult. x64 | OS X
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kurahk7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by notsograymatter View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kurahk7 View Post

Your current system build would be perfect for the OP
I agree in that he won't need to upgrade a newer dual core cpu or ddr2 to ddr3 for gaming. The only thing he'd need to upgrade is the gfx card and the sound card if he doesn't buy a PCIe card at first.

Other guy: He doesn't need a quad core CPU for gaming. They don't use 4 cores. Max of two.
Actually, according to some review sites, they actually benefit from the 3rd core in some games, but in general, your right, 2 cores is enough. But some people, do like to multitask, so the other 2 cores would come in handy, not to mention a quad core is only $100.
That's my point, there's only a handful that can use 4 cores and it's easy enough to switch to a Phenom II X4 in a few years if he really has to. I'm sure they'd be dirt cheap if he found he really needed one.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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26 Apr 2010   #62
kurahk7

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by notsograymatter View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kurahk7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by notsograymatter View Post
If he's got a $700 dollar limit then here's a decent build:

NZXT Beta Evo Case - $40
GIGABYTE GA-MA78LM - $50
Patriot Viper II 4GB DDR2 1066 - $93
AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black - $100
NVIDIA 9800 GT - 1GB 256-BIT GDDR3 - $100
Antec 550W PSU - $50
Cooler Master 120MM Case Fans (4) - $10
2 x NZXT 140mm Case Fans - $20
Caviar Black 640GB HDD - $75
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio 7.1 - $55
SAMSUNG SATA DVD WRITER (24x, 16x) - $25

Total: $615 before tax and shipping.

You really don't need the latest and greatest quad core CPU for gaming. Especially if you're not planning on playing games on super high settings. Quad Cores are great for multi tasking but they're not being utilized by most games. Most of the newer games can utilize a dual core cpu but many of them can't even come close to utilizing a quad core cpu. Nor do you need a system with USB 3.0 or DDR3 if you're not planning on doing the latest and greatest. Moral of the story... Instead of buying the latest motherboard and processor, spend that money on your graphics card, you'll see more of a different gaming. Keep in mind though, that graphics card will need to be replaced in a year or two, you'd need a GTX 260 if you want it to last longer. That would cost you an extra $100.

Tip   Tip
As mentioned many times before: I don't recommend that you skip buying a sound card because Realtek onboard sound absolutely sucks for gaming. You do not want to rely on an onboard sound card of any kind for your gaming needs, it's just ludicrous.


In response to Hexoroot: That's the point though, he'd be able to play the games now but he wouldn't be able to play them in a year or two when they all of the higher end games start requiring the newer spec. Even the GFX card I recommended would need to be replaced in that time period. It's really a matter of whether he wants something cheap that can get him through a few years or something that might last 3 or 4. Plus i was talking more to the people that recommended he buy a brand new quad core cpu with ddr3 ram and skip buying a graphics card to rely on the onboard junk. A gaming system will rely on graphics twice as much as it will a quad core cpu. Quad core is for multi-tasking, not gaming, atleast not yet that is.
For the same price, he can buy an AMD Athlon II x4 620/630 and overclock it to 3Ghz, which is a safer bet than trying to unlock the other 2 cores of the Phenom II x2.
1. No clue if he wants to or knows how to overclock
2. There's no need to buy a quad core cpu if he's using it to game. Games will utilize quad cores in a few years but they're just barely utilizing two cores now.

Note: That's not to say that some games like Supreme Commander and GTA IV don't utilize quad cores, they do. It's just that 80-90% of games on the market don't. Nor do most source engine games and that's what a lot of the PC gamers play (TF2, L4D2, etc)
L4D and L4D2 are tweaked for multicores, so they do benefit from quad cores, but the others only use 2 cores, but that is kinda pushing it since people do run other programs in the background and would benefit from the extra cores.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Apr 2010   #63
kurahk7

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

26 Apr 2010   #64
Heroxoot

Windows 7 Pro
 
 

They are not for sale, but I keep mentioning the switch to them. The athlon 630 went DOWN, because when I bought a 620 the 630 was like 50 more. Damn you AMD! I don't think the performance is that much different though. Still, get the 630.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Apr 2010   #65
Lordbob75

Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Mint 9
 
 

Alright, enough of the fanboism (that's you Heroxoot).

Things to consider when looking to build a rig:
-If you want to keep it a while, consider spending a little more to future proof it
-Overclocking is a great way to save some money, but does need slightly better cooling and can reduce the lifespan of components
-Don't skimp on your motherboard or PSU. Get a motherboard that will support the next level processor and RAM (if possible) and get a good quality PSU at around 600 watts (mine is 750 I think, it works great).

So if you are looking to keep this rig for 4+ years, go with a quadcore processor, DDR3 (is at DDR2 price levels now), and a slightly better GPU (5770, 260gtx).
In my experience, the onboard RealTek sound works GREAT. I use it for games and music, and am quite pleased with it (plus I am too cheap to shell out for a sound card).

Also, if you think you will upgrade your rig in the future, look to see if there is a way you can sell the old parts to recover cost and allow some better components.

Overall, my main recommendation is to get a good mobo, get a decent CPU and overclock it, a good GPU and PSU.
(If you really want I can sketch out a system.)

~Lordbob
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Apr 2010   #66
Heroxoot

Windows 7 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lordbob75 View Post
Alright, enough of the fanboism (that's you Heroxoot).

Things to consider when looking to build a rig:
-If you want to keep it a while, consider spending a little more to future proof it
-Overclocking is a great way to save some money, but does need slightly better cooling and can reduce the lifespan of components
-Don't skimp on your motherboard or PSU. Get a motherboard that will support the next level processor and RAM (if possible) and get a good quality PSU at around 600 watts (mine is 750 I think, it works great).

So if you are looking to keep this rig for 4+ years, go with a quadcore processor, DDR3 (is at DDR2 price levels now), and a slightly better GPU (5770, 260gtx).
In my experience, the onboard RealTek sound works GREAT. I use it for games and music, and am quite pleased with it (plus I am too cheap to shell out for a sound card).

Also, if you think you will upgrade your rig in the future, look to see if there is a way you can sell the old parts to recover cost and allow some better components.

Overall, my main recommendation is to get a good mobo, get a decent CPU and overclock it, a good GPU and PSU.
(If you really want I can sketch out a system.)

~Lordbob
Excuse me? I aint fan boying. Intels got good cpus but a Phenom x4 is better than a core 2 duo. If you don't like it tough. Fact of the matter is, AMD is the best way to go for a budget gaming rig. Thats how it is, if you don't like it, tell Intel to start selling more reasonably. AMD is more for your money. Intel is great if you can spend it. I only fanboy video cards, cpu are their own world. Next time do not assume.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Apr 2010   #67
not so gray matter

W7 Ult. x64 | OS X
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lordbob75 View Post
Alright, enough of the fanboism (that's you Heroxoot).

Things to consider when looking to build a rig:
-If you want to keep it a while, consider spending a little more to future proof it
-Overclocking is a great way to save some money, but does need slightly better cooling and can reduce the lifespan of components
-Don't skimp on your motherboard or PSU. Get a motherboard that will support the next level processor and RAM (if possible) and get a good quality PSU at around 600 watts (mine is 750 I think, it works great).

So if you are looking to keep this rig for 4+ years, go with a quadcore processor, DDR3 (is at DDR2 price levels now), and a slightly better GPU (5770, 260gtx).
In my experience, the onboard RealTek sound works GREAT. I use it for games and music, and am quite pleased with it (plus I am too cheap to shell out for a sound card).

Also, if you think you will upgrade your rig in the future, look to see if there is a way you can sell the old parts to recover cost and allow some better components.

Overall, my main recommendation is to get a good mobo, get a decent CPU and overclock it, a good GPU and PSU.
(If you really want I can sketch out a system.)

~Lordbob
I agree with everything said except for the sound. Realtek sound is absolutely horrible for gaming. If the person asking this question reads anything in anything I've said, I really hope he reads about the sound. Research gaming and sound cards and you'll see that people hate realtek onboard sound. It's absolutely horrible. Why is it that people think it's alright for gaming? Sure it might be fine for normal casual whatever, but if you want to distinguish between an enemy coming down two paths 30 degrees apart you need something more powerful and distinct than Realtek.

In other words: Do not settle for the Realtek onboard sound, if you're using this PC to game, buy a sound card or you'll regret it.

LordBob, if you think it's alright, see if you can borrow a friends Sound Blaster, HT | OMEGA or M-AUDIO card for day or two. Install it and listen to the difference between the two, it's especially noticeable in VOIP which is key in online gaming. I saw a huge difference between my onboard Realtek and a Sound Blaster X-FI 5.1 USB.

On the subject of L4D2 and a quad core. While it does take advantage of the quad core and the benchmarks look amazingly better, the differences are all above 60fps which makes them almost neglible for most people. There's no real need to have a game running at higher than 60 fps unless you have 3d-glasses or are playing in a competitive league for $$.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Apr 2010   #68
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Heroxoot View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lordbob75 View Post
Alright, enough of the fanboism (that's you Heroxoot).

Things to consider when looking to build a rig:
-If you want to keep it a while, consider spending a little more to future proof it
-Overclocking is a great way to save some money, but does need slightly better cooling and can reduce the lifespan of components
-Don't skimp on your motherboard or PSU. Get a motherboard that will support the next level processor and RAM (if possible) and get a good quality PSU at around 600 watts (mine is 750 I think, it works great).

So if you are looking to keep this rig for 4+ years, go with a quadcore processor, DDR3 (is at DDR2 price levels now), and a slightly better GPU (5770, 260gtx).
In my experience, the onboard RealTek sound works GREAT. I use it for games and music, and am quite pleased with it (plus I am too cheap to shell out for a sound card).

Also, if you think you will upgrade your rig in the future, look to see if there is a way you can sell the old parts to recover cost and allow some better components.

Overall, my main recommendation is to get a good mobo, get a decent CPU and overclock it, a good GPU and PSU.
(If you really want I can sketch out a system.)

~Lordbob
Excuse me? I aint fan boying. Intels got good cpus but a Phenom x4 is better than a core 2 duo. If you don't like it tough. Fact of the matter is, AMD is the best way to go for a budget gaming rig. Thats how it is, if you don't like it, tell Intel to start selling more reasonably. AMD is more for your money. Intel is great if you can spend it. I only fanboy video cards, cpu are their own world. Next time do not assume.
It all depends what the PC is going to be used for.

You can not compare a benchmark of a Quad VS a Dual to get an idea of everyday performance. as some of the benchmarks are using all 4 cores such as encoding.
If you look at benchmarks of the same 2 CPUs, on apps that use 2 cores, youll see which is really faster.
I mean, who cares if the Quad is faster at encoding a X264 video if you have no intentions ever of doing video encoding?
May as well get one thats faster with the things you do often.

The quad really doesnt make much difference, other than apps that actually take advantage of it.
Even Shut down, boot, and app launches times are about the same for the most part.
HDs play are far larger role and are the biggest bottleneck in any system.

Only if the app in question is making full use of all 4 cores, then youll benefit from the quad.
Many think, more cores makes everything faster. This just isnt true.
It's only true if you have and use apps that can make use of it.


In most day to day tasks, the Core2 is simply faster per core. (Which is 80% + of what most do)
Keep in mind, clock speeds aren't always what they seem.
Core2 @ 2.6ghz is equal to AMD Phenom at approx. 3.0-3.1ghz.

None-the-less. I find that a Quad is a huge benefit.
But I do alot of multi-tasking and video encoding, taking advantage of it.

I personally would still go with a Quad Core build, if budget allows. Even if AMD, but it suits my needs.
Even for games that only use 2 cores, you still have 2 dedicated to gaming, And 2 for all background process etc.

Either way, a Core2 or AMD Quad should serve you well. Theres nothing wrong with either.
Really depends on what youll be doing with the PC other than Gaming, and you know that more than we do.

And as already stated, do NOT skimp on the PSU or MOBO. Its the heart of everything.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Apr 2010   #69
Heroxoot

Windows 7 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Heroxoot View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lordbob75 View Post
Alright, enough of the fanboism (that's you Heroxoot).

Things to consider when looking to build a rig:
-If you want to keep it a while, consider spending a little more to future proof it
-Overclocking is a great way to save some money, but does need slightly better cooling and can reduce the lifespan of components
-Don't skimp on your motherboard or PSU. Get a motherboard that will support the next level processor and RAM (if possible) and get a good quality PSU at around 600 watts (mine is 750 I think, it works great).

So if you are looking to keep this rig for 4+ years, go with a quadcore processor, DDR3 (is at DDR2 price levels now), and a slightly better GPU (5770, 260gtx).
In my experience, the onboard RealTek sound works GREAT. I use it for games and music, and am quite pleased with it (plus I am too cheap to shell out for a sound card).

Also, if you think you will upgrade your rig in the future, look to see if there is a way you can sell the old parts to recover cost and allow some better components.

Overall, my main recommendation is to get a good mobo, get a decent CPU and overclock it, a good GPU and PSU.
(If you really want I can sketch out a system.)

~Lordbob
Excuse me? I aint fan boying. Intels got good cpus but a Phenom x4 is better than a core 2 duo. If you don't like it tough. Fact of the matter is, AMD is the best way to go for a budget gaming rig. Thats how it is, if you don't like it, tell Intel to start selling more reasonably. AMD is more for your money. Intel is great if you can spend it. I only fanboy video cards, cpu are their own world. Next time do not assume.
It depends. Only if the app in question is making full use of all 4 cores, then youll benefit from the quad.

You can not compare a benchmark of a Quad VS a Dual to get an idea of everyday performance. as some of the benchmarks are using all 4 cores such as encoding. Day to Day use, you will seldom use 4 cores.


In everything else the Core2 is simply faster per core. (Which is 80% + of what most do)
Keep in mind, clock speeds aren't always what they seem.
Core2 @ 2.6ghz is equal to AMD Phenom at approx. 3.0-3.1ghz.

None-the-less. I find that a Quad is a huge benefit.
But I do alot of multi-tasking and video encoding, taking advantage of it.

I would still go with a Quad Core build, if budget allows.
Even for games that only use 2 cores, you still have 2 dedicated to gaming, And 2 for all background process etc.

And as already stated, do NOT skimp on the PSU or MOBO. Its the heart of everything.
Oh I never said to skip on it. I had posted a really good OCZ S series 80 cert one. Single rail. OCZ is a fine maker of PSUs. The mobo you could fanboy on, but I always pick Gigabyte because its the only one to not fail me. If its good for one I think its good for all, and people will agree gigabyte is a very good provider of mobos. Thats not to say ASUS and MSI are not good to. Its still a good Idea for muti core. If you are a weirdo like me, you run a MMORPG afk selling in the background while you play counter strike or SFIV. The quad helps a lot for multitasking. So a game won't run all 4 cores YET. Some do, like BFBC2. But then say you need to have stuff running in the back while you game? Its much easier on a quad. In the end, its going to help him somewhere, somehow. Maybe he becomes a art student? He can have a gaming pc that can do renders in a decent time frame. Or maybe he is one of the crysis fans? He can play maxed with a quad core. I do believe crysis uses at least 2 cores, having 4 will help keep his pc from slowing down with it. Not sure on the crysis thing, never played it. Intel makes great CPU, but they have horribly high prices. Its a budget pc so use a budget processor that will beat some ass. Its not impossible to get a good cpu and gfx card without spending. Its 2010, games are going to start using multi core processing. Its only a matter of time, they have become priced to reason, so game developers should start making more powerful games. Its only a matter of time.

We need to get back down to it though. When I built my pc, I took suggestions and mixed it to my choosing. I would not take any one of our builds, but instead take what you see and buy what you like and mix it up to make a pc you feel is good.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Apr 2010   #70
kurahk7

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Or, the OP can go for the new AMD Phenom II x6 AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2.8GHz 6-Core CPU for $149!! - Legit Reviews but that's if Tigerdirect still has it in stock (they're selling it for $50 dollars off; meaning you can get a hexcore for $150)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Building a gaming rig. First timer.




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