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Windows 7: Weird lag in seemingly ALL applications.

26 May 2010   #41
spyknee

W7 Ulti/64, XP Pro/32
 
 

You need to run the ram at its manufacturers specs, volts and timings. I suggested auto settings just too see what the timings, volts are doing. Get matching hardware, put it in with manufacturers settings and see.
If you decide to OC, put the ram timings on auto while you push the 800MHz to 1066MHz, the timings will change with MHz bump.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
27 May 2010   #42
Fletchrr

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Hey guys.

I did what you said Stew and went through the ratios, 6, 7 and 8 were all fine, 9 caused crashing. So atm I have 8x375/750 (Hopefully that wasnt the wrong thing to do)

I have read through the guides you posted, I have the TechRepository one constantly open for reference. It just takes me a while to digest it all, I know I ask a lot of questions lol. I'm thinking about leaving PRime95 running overnight to see if it *is* stable. (Anyone know if theres a 64-bit version out there? :<)

Update:
WEI still crashed. Took it down to 350/700. Will try again >.>
Ok ran it at 8x350/700 and it hasn't crashed.

So yea, current settings are 8x350/700 CPU@1.2375v, 1x1GB DDR2 4-4-4-12@2.1v
While the speed isnt as fast as I would like it seems stable enough, no weird lag and atleast I've learnt something.
As far as the overall voltages go, VCORE is 0.1-0.2v higher, VIN1 is 0.1-0.2v higher and VIN6 is 0.1v lower.

Temps are lower across the board.

Just for clarification though. Once I buy the new modules, I'll need to change the timings and voltage of the RAM on the NB, and increase the FSB of the RAM to as close as 1066 without exceeding it. Do I have that right? (Should I leave the Ratio and FSB of the CPU as they are or do I need to change those aswell to match the RAM?)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 May 2010   #43
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Crash is likely due to instability.

This is the exact reason I recommend manually setting RAM timings and not using 'Auto"

When you are looking for a stable overclock, there are 3 key areas that can cause issues.

1. The CPU is unstable
2. The RAM is unstable
3. The NB is unstable

If you leave the RAM (Or any major setting for that matter) to "Auto" and crashes occur you need to guess where the problem is.
Setting things manually, and taking RAM out of the picture at the start, eliminates guess work as to the issue.

First thing you should do is Run MEMTEST to ensure the RAM itself is good.
(remember, just because MEMTEST passes, doesnt mean the system will be free of problems due to memory. It only means the RAM itself is good. You could still have NB issues for example under full load when OCd or a RAM failure)

Then, you manulally lower the RAM setting to just below what it is rated, say 667Mhz RAM @ 5-5-5-18 timings if its DDR2 800 CAS4 or 1066 CAS5 for example

Now you start OCing the CPU and get thimngs stable. If theres a crash or instability you know where to look.

Once you know what the CPU is capable of, then you can start tweaking the RAM.

The best stress test is Intel Burn test (MAX stress) at least 10 passes. This will give a fast idea if stable or not far faster than Prime. Within minutes rather than hours.
IntelBurnTest v2.3 download from Guru3D.com

Watch those temps!

If you lower RAM speed and test with CPU at a x9 multi, once you get an idea where it stays stable, you can lower multi to x6 and start working with RAM.
Once you have an idea of RAM speed, you can then up the multi and start working on them together with both those figures in mind (likely staying just below it)
Once all thats stable, then start working with Timings. (RAM timings should be the last adjustment)

Something else to keep in mind.
Hardware plays a huge role. If you have DDR2800 4-4-4-12 RAM for example, it may run well at stock speeds at those settings.
However, depending on the board and RAM itself, It may not be able to run at 800/CAS4 with higher FSB speeds. the board may not be able to handle it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

27 May 2010   #44
spyknee

W7 Ulti/64, XP Pro/32
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Crash is likely due to instability.

This is the exact reason I recommend manually setting RAM timings and not using 'Auto"

When you are looking for a stable overclock, there are 3 key areas that can cause issues.

1. The CPU is unstable
2. The RAM is unstable
3. The NB is unstable

If you leave the RAM (Or any major setting for that matter) to "Auto" and crashes occur you need to guess where the problem is.
Setting things manually, and taking RAM out of the picture at the start, eliminates guess work as to the issue.

First thing you should do is Run MEMTEST to ensure the RAM itself is good.
(remember, just because MEMTEST passes, doesnt mean the system will be free of problems due to memory. It only means the RAM itself is good. You could still have NB issues for example under full load when OCd or a RAM failure)

Then, you manulally lower the RAM setting to just below what it is rated, say 667Mhz RAM @ 5-5-5-18 timings if its DDR2 800 CAS4 or 1066 CAS5 for example

Now you start OCing the CPU and get thimngs stable. If theres a crash or instability you know where to look.

Once you know what the CPU is capable of, then you can start tweaking the RAM.

The best stress test is Intel Burn test (MAX stress) at least 10 passes. This will give a fast idea if stable or not far faster than Prime. Within minutes rather than hours.
IntelBurnTest v2.3 download from Guru3D.com

Watch those temps!

If you lower RAM speed and test with CPU at a x9 multi, once you get an idea where it stays stable, you can lower multi to x6 and start working with RAM.
Once you have an idea of RAM speed, you can then up the multi and start working on them together with both those figures in mind (likely staying just below it)
Once all thats stable, then start working with Timings. (RAM timings should be the last adjustment)

Something else to keep in mind.
Hardware plays a huge role. If you have DDR2800 4-4-4-12 RAM for example, it may run well at stock speeds at those settings.
However, depending on the board and RAM itself, It may not be able to run at 800/CAS4 with higher FSB speeds. the board may not be able to handle it.
Hope your willing to pay for what he burns up. You keep giving him high end info and he might not be ready.

Bottom line is to get a set of matching, 800MHz ram. Install it with manufacturers recommended specs. AND SEE! Get the hardware right before you start getting fancy.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 May 2010   #45
Fletchrr

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Well at the moment my RAM is set the same as it would be on Auto, without the weird timings ASUS force. So its set at 4-4-4-12 at 2.1v (the recommended voltage as far as I know)

The only things that I've changed is the FSB (from 266 to 350) and CPU ratio. (from AUTO(9) to 8)

Ok ran IntelBurn and the first time (FSB 8x350/700 @1.2375v) after a couple of seconds I got a BSOD.

Went into BIOS, increased the voltage to the CPU to 1.25v, got an error after 7 seconds.

Not really sure what I should do tbh. I'm assuming that I should take the FSB down to what it was originally and then slowly bring it back up and keep trying with IntelBurn? :/

Spyknee - thats exactly what I'm going to do. I'll be buying a 4GB 1066mhz kit and starting from the default settings.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 May 2010   #46
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by spyknee View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Crash is likely due to instability.

This is the exact reason I recommend manually setting RAM timings and not using 'Auto"

When you are looking for a stable overclock, there are 3 key areas that can cause issues.

1. The CPU is unstable
2. The RAM is unstable
3. The NB is unstable

If you leave the RAM (Or any major setting for that matter) to "Auto" and crashes occur you need to guess where the problem is.
Setting things manually, and taking RAM out of the picture at the start, eliminates guess work as to the issue.

First thing you should do is Run MEMTEST to ensure the RAM itself is good.
(remember, just because MEMTEST passes, doesnt mean the system will be free of problems due to memory. It only means the RAM itself is good. You could still have NB issues for example under full load when OCd or a RAM failure)

Then, you manulally lower the RAM setting to just below what it is rated, say 667Mhz RAM @ 5-5-5-18 timings if its DDR2 800 CAS4 or 1066 CAS5 for example

Now you start OCing the CPU and get thimngs stable. If theres a crash or instability you know where to look.

Once you know what the CPU is capable of, then you can start tweaking the RAM.

The best stress test is Intel Burn test (MAX stress) at least 10 passes. This will give a fast idea if stable or not far faster than Prime. Within minutes rather than hours.
IntelBurnTest v2.3 download from Guru3D.com

Watch those temps!

If you lower RAM speed and test with CPU at a x9 multi, once you get an idea where it stays stable, you can lower multi to x6 and start working with RAM.
Once you have an idea of RAM speed, you can then up the multi and start working on them together with both those figures in mind (likely staying just below it)
Once all thats stable, then start working with Timings. (RAM timings should be the last adjustment)

Something else to keep in mind.
Hardware plays a huge role. If you have DDR2800 4-4-4-12 RAM for example, it may run well at stock speeds at those settings.
However, depending on the board and RAM itself, It may not be able to run at 800/CAS4 with higher FSB speeds. the board may not be able to handle it.
Hope your willing to pay for what he burns up. You keep giving him high end info and he might not be ready.

Bottom line is to get a set of matching, 800MHz ram. Install it with manufacturers recommended specs. AND SEE! Get the hardware right before you start getting fancy.
not to sound rude but,

This is not high end info.
Its Overclocking basics 101, so to speak.

You do not just start cranking everything up all at once hoping for the best. You OC in steps, checking for stabilty along the way.
This way you know where the issue is when BSODS or errors occur.

if you just crank it all up all at the same time, how do you know what area is causing the BSOD or instability? A wild guess?

We've already established matched RAM is a must.

Get you CPU stable at your desired goal with RAm as slow as possible.
Drop multi on CPU get RAM stable at desired goal.
Then try both together. if issues, the likely culprit is the NB.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 May 2010   #47
Fletchrr

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

So if I focus on the CPU to begin with, I need to get the FSB and voltages balanced and stable, then drop the ratio on the CPU and focus on RAM speed/voltages (timings aswell or?) If I then go on to try them both together and have problems, which settings should I switch around on the NB?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 May 2010   #48
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Well, the goal will be to see if you can hit you goal stable.

If the CPU will run stable where you want it, then try RAM to get stable. It may or may not run where you want it too. Thats the purpose.

If the CPU will run stable and the RAM where you want it, pretty much alone,
and errors when running at that speed together, the likely culprit is NB voltage.

Sometimes, one small bump in CPU Vcore can help as well.

Just rememebr keep a close eye on temps, and dont go too overboard.

Your current RAm may not be able to OC at all, or very little. So you may have to settle for a CPU OC, and try to keep the RAM at or just below rated speed.

Also, RAM is the easiest thing to kill by pushing it too hard (especially voltage) so keep that in mind. I wouldnt run over the advertised max voltage on the RAM. (IE it says 1.9-2.0 volts, set at 2.0 and dont go over that)

As I mentioned before, depending on the board, it may not be able to handle tighter latencies with higher FSB speeds. Then again it may.

Make sure you have done your research and know your theramal limits, and voltage limits as to where danger zones are.
Better cooling will also be required. if your still using stock, I wouldnt OC very much at all.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 May 2010   #49
Fletchrr

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Ah ok, thanks for that.

Scythe "INFINITY" 5HeatPipes CPU Cooler is the CPU cooler I use atm, and I also have an OCz RAM dual fan thingie.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 May 2010   #50
stew2

 

Hi fletch

Once you get new ram you will need to change the timings and voltage the ram takes. You will probably have to change the fsb as well which means youll either have to change the multiplier you uses or increase the voltages to the cpu and nb.

For instance you could uses the stock fsb of 266 and run the ram at 1066 however this means that the maximum speed your cpu will go is 2400mhz by using the x9 multiplier.

Or you could push the fsb really high and have it 533 which would give you 1066 ram and allow a maximum cpu speed of 4979 mhz with a x9 multiplier. Which is unlikely to be achieved lol.

In my sig you can see i use 1066 ram and the e6600 cpu. It has a x6 to x9 multiplier and the speed is 2400mhz, so its pretty similar to the q6600 you are using and the ram you will have.

I use a fsb of 450 with a x8 multiplier and use the ratio of 1:1 which lets me run my ram at 900mhz with tighter timings and a lower voltage than stock. Iv given my cpu a 50% overclock and the fsb has a 69% overclock however my ram is underclocked by about 15%. It all about finding the right balance for your pc.

In your case id recommend running the ram closer to what iv got as im not sure your board will handle any faster well. I think it would be better to run the ram slightly slower as like wishmaster says, ram is the most likely component to fail inside your pc and an extra 100mhz in ram speed is practically unnoticeable for real life computing.

Lowering the ram speed will increase the stability of your pc and if you wanted more speed then increase the speed of your cpu by using higher multipliers.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Weird lag in seemingly ALL applications.




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