Multi Purpose PC - Your Opinions Please

thehappyman · 05 Sep 2010

pparks1 said:

thehappyman said:

Wow, thats quite an article on SSD's. It looks like the TRIM process prevents most of the Degradation that I heard about.

Yes,that problem was way back in the first generation drives. A lot has changed since then.

thehappyman said:

I wont be suffering too much with a 10,000 rpm Raid 0 C drive.

You won't be suffering, but then again your random access speeds will be abysmal compared to an SSD. It's the low random access times and subsequent fast as all get out random I/O speeds that make the SSD's ideal for the OS.

thehappyman said:

And since the raid 0 drive I am getting is 600 GB, I can keep one of my 50,000 picture photo library databases on the C drive along with the OS and all my other programs rather than keep the photos on a secondary drive which is what I would have to do if I had a 250 GB SSD. The average picture size is at least 5 megabytes. But I am sold on a SSD down the road.

What would be the point of being able to store pictures on the SSD?? Seriously, you can only look through them so fast. I've got an 80GB SSD for my OS and applications..but my data sits on a mechanical storage drive. You want the SSD for it's ultra low access times and blistering fast random I/O speeds...which greatly benefit the OS. I'm just always taken aback by how many people want to hold off on purchasing an SSD drive until it's xxx big. These things are not ideal for storage...and won't be for quite a number of years.

I'm sure your new box will run great. But in all honesty, it would have been faster with a slower CPU, less RAM, etc....and an SSD drive. Just saying.

Believe me I am already sold on the SSD, you need say no more - I WANT ONE !!!!!!! But the reason I want to keep one of my 50,000 picture databases on the C drive is not just so that I can view the pictures individually, - its so the database software can sort, rearrange, and manipulate the pictures as a group without having to access a secondary drive. Keeping the picture database on the C drive will be far more efficient than storing them on a secondary SATA drive. As soon as I can get an SSD thats at least 500 Gb (that I can afford) I'll get one and sell the raid 0 drives. I am pretty sure well be seeing much larger SSD's soon. A few years back the largest Thumb Drive I could buy was 8 Gb - now I can pick up a 64 GB Thumb Drive, an 800% increase in capacity. Solid State memory capacities are increasing rapidly. It wont be long until they completely replace mechanical drives. Beside my application is NOT solely dependent on disk access, read and write times and data transfer, the CPU has to do a LOT of work in this database and it needs a lot of Ram to do it in. Super fast Disk I/O would be icing on the cake (which I would love to have).

Thanks for the comments Verdana

Sounds like you are enjoying your SSD !!!!

pparks1 · 05 Sep 2010

thehappyman said:

Keeping the picture database on the C drive will be far more efficient than storing them on a secondary SATA drive.

I don't honestly see where the extra efficiency comes into play, but that is really neither here nor there.

thehappyman said:

As soon as I can get an SSD thats at least 500 Gb (that I can afford) I'll get one and sell the raid 0 drives.

It's just too bad that these capacities will be awhile and will remain costly. Because you have to forego ultimate performance right now today to hold off on using an SSD for storage. My SSD was one of the best upgrades I have made to a computer EVER.

thehappyman said:

It wont be long until they completely replace mechanical drives.

Easily more than 10 years away.

wysiwyg · 05 Sep 2010

The SSD article is just over a year old, a year in computing terms is a long time.

thehappyman · 06 Sep 2010

Thank You All, especially LOMAI, PETEY7, VERTEX, PPARKS1, and WYSIWYG

Several Days ago I posted the specs on a new system I purchased and asked for opinions on the configuration. Everybody that replied had the same comment - Nice system but get an SSD instead of the 600 GB 10,000 rpm Raid 0 Drive. At the time I didnt think it possible for me to still change my order or come up with some extra cash. And I didnt think I could find an SSD with enough capacity for my requirements.

But your opinions mattered and I researched the SSD some more and changed my mind. I turned my piggy bank upside down again and a little more cash fell out so -

I insisted that my old order be cancelled and I reordered the identical system EXCEPT instead of the 600 GB 10,000 rpm Raid 0 Drive I ordered a 512 GB SSD RAID 0 Drive (2x256 GB) instead. The SSD's wont suffer much degradation because of the TRIM operation supported by Windows 7. And they will be in a Raid 0 configuration for even more speed !!!! (yes, it did cost more)

So I thank you all, I think I will be happier

- this system should last me quite a while.

New Computer REVISED SPECS
=================
Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit OS
Core I7 980X CPU overclocked to 3.73 Ghz (water cooled)
12 Gigabytes 1600 Mhz DDR3 triple channel ram
Single Nvidia GTX 480 Video Card

600 Gig Raid 0 10,000 rpm C Drive --------------------XXXXXXXXX Cancelled
512 Gig Raid 0 SOLID STATE C Drive (2 x 256 Samsung SSD) ---- SUBSTITUTED

Additional 7200 rpm data drives (computer holds up to 6 drives)
USB 2.0 and 3.0
Blu Ray Read/Write DVD/CD
30 inch Dell 3007WFP LCD Display @ 2500 x 1600 resolution
850 Watt Power Supply

Lomai · 07 Sep 2010

Thanks for keeping us posted.
Enjoy

Regards

DeaconFrost · 07 Sep 2010

I'm glad you ditched the RAID0 with mechanical drives. I don't have any comments on RAID arrays with SSDs, but I would have easily dropped the processor a notch, saved some serious cash, and gone with the SSDs from the very beginning. You wouldn't be giving up much in the processor department, but you could be saving hundreds.

pparks1 · 07 Sep 2010

thehappyman said:

The SSD's wont suffer much degradation because of the TRIM operation supported by Windows 7. And they will be in a Raid 0 configuration for even more speed !!!! (yes, it did cost more)

Just be sure that whatever RAID option you went with actually supports TRIM. I know that for quite a long time, there wasn't TRIM in a RAID configuration....that may still actually be the case. I haven't researched it greatly as I have no need for my OS drive to be that big.

thehappyman · 07 Sep 2010

pparks1 said:

thehappyman said:

The SSD's wont suffer much degradation because of the TRIM operation supported by Windows 7. And they will be in a Raid 0 configuration for even more speed !!!! (yes, it did cost more)

Just be sure that whatever RAID option you went with actually supports TRIM. I know that for quite a long time, there wasn't TRIM in a RAID configuration....that may still actually be the case. I haven't researched it greatly as I have no need for my OS drive to be that big.

Hello Pparks1
Yes, I have researched this to death - I know I need the TRIM operation and I know its supported by Windows 7. The Company I am purchasing my system from has assured me that they "came up with" a patch to the Samsung "Firmware" that allows the SSD's to respond to the TRIM command in the RAID 0 ARRAY.

I tried to convince the Company that a single 256 GB SSD would be more than enough capacity for me as I only intend to keep the OS and other "Programs" on the C drive, not any data. But being a bit inflexible they told me they dont want to support any "non-standard" configurations. I can understand that.

Since the computer (and all the components in it) are backed by a 4 year "bumper to bumper" warranty, I'm going to take a chance and "go for it". After I get the system I am going to do a few benchmarks on it and I'll do them once a month. If the SSD ARRAY starts slowing down, they will be the first to hear about it and I will then be getting two new SSD DRIVES. I have dealt with THIS company for the last 4 years and found their service and warranty to be "impeccably good", actually quite out of the ordinary. So I do trust them and am willing to take the risk to get the better performance.

And actually, I am looking forward to having
a 500 GB Solid State Raid 0 C Drive

DeaconFrost · 08 Sep 2010

thehappyman said:

The Company I am purchasing my system from has assured me that they "came up with" a patch to the Samsung "Firmware" that allows the SSD's to respond to the TRIM command in the RAID 0 ARRAY.

That sounds awfully fishy to me. I would be very nervous about going with a system from this company.

thehappyman said:

I tried to convince the Company that a single 256 GB SSD would be more than enough capacity for me as I only intend to keep the OS and other "Programs" on the C drive, not any data. But being a bit inflexible they told me they dont want to support any "non-standard" configurations. I can understand that.

A single drive is non-standard? That would be my final straw, after already being cautious from the first point. If they won't let you customize something so simple, don't give them one cent of your money.

Honestly, I always have to ask this...if you researched the parts yourself, why pay someone else to assemble them and load the OS, when you'd be reloading the OS yourself anyway? By the parts, build the computer the way you want, and save yourself a nice pile of cash.

If they want to BS you into paying more for a RAID array with made up answers, you'd be crazy to give them any money. If you simply refuse to build it yourself, tell them to make it a single drive or else you'll buy from another competing company.

thehappyman · 08 Sep 2010

DeaconFrost said:

thehappyman said:

The Company I am purchasing my system from has assured me that they "came up with" a patch to the Samsung "Firmware" that allows the SSD's to respond to the TRIM command in the RAID 0 ARRAY.

That sounds awfully fishy to me. I would be very nervous about going with a system from this company.

thehappyman said:

I tried to convince the Company that a single 256 GB SSD would be more than enough capacity for me as I only intend to keep the OS and other "Programs" on the C drive, not any data. But being a bit inflexible they told me they dont want to support any "non-standard" configurations. I can understand that.

A single drive is non-standard? That would be my final straw, after already being cautious from the first point. If they won't let you customize something so simple, don't give them one cent of your money.

Honestly, I always have to ask this...if you researched the parts yourself, why pay someone else to assemble them and load the OS, when you'd be reloading the OS yourself anyway? By the parts, build the computer the way you want, and save yourself a nice pile of cash.

If they want to BS you into paying more for a RAID array with made up answers, you'd be crazy to give them any money. If you simply refuse to build it yourself, tell them to make it a single drive or else you'll buy from another competing company.

Hello DeaconFrost,
I totally agree with you - And everything has turned out just fine for me. I called the company back and this time hooked up with a different Sales Tech who was most helpful. He, We, I, made a number of changes to the system and now I am quite happy with the whole deal. I happened to "Hit" a "Sale Day" at the company too which is great.

The chages are - I will get the single 256 GB SSD for my C Drive so will have no problem with the TRIM operation, and the Video Card has been changed from the Nvidia GTX 480 (single GPU) to the ATI Radeon HD 5970 (dual GPU)w/2 GB Vid Ram and I will be getting a 10K rpm 600 GB SATA Drive for Data. I already have other SATA drives to complement the new 600 GB drive so I am all set.
And to top it all off, because of the "Sale" Date I will end up saving 22% of the total cost of the system. Now I am a happy camper.

I also kind of agree with you too about building the system myself except it's just too much hassle for me now, dont have the energy anymore - remember this system is over clocked and water cooled. I just dont want to have to order lots of parts from lots of manufacturers and have to do an integration myself (and then there would be no 4 year warranty). Buying it from this highly reputable company saves me a lot of trouble and everything arrives working and GAURATEED to stay working for 4 years.
So along with one of the fastest Processors available (over clocked and water cooled), I get one of the fastest Video Cards available with Lots of high speed ram, a Solid State C Disk Drive, USB 3.0, a Blu Ray DVD Read/Writer and Windows 7 Ultimate. It all comes tested and gauranteed.

Too bad I ran into the wrong Sales Tech the first time around.

Thanks for your good input :):):)

Multi Purpose PC - Your Opinions Please

Multi Purpose PC opinions - Revisited