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Windows 7: Stability Question

10 Sep 2010   #51
Mellon Head

Win 7 Pro x64/Win 10 Pro x64 dual boot
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Keiichi25 View Post
When people were saying don't mess with the settings, it was more of don't tweak them if you don't know what you are doing or trying to eek out more performance.
I suggested that the OP not change the timings at the moment because it would introduce new variables into the troubleshooting process. Until he solves his current issues, I would advise not changing anything that is currently set up correctly and is within spec.

Once the problem you're trying to troubleshoot is corrected, then yeah, tweak to your heart's content. Go nuts if you want to, but until it's running properly at spec, leave it alone.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
10 Sep 2010   #52
gregrocker

 

Win7 doesn't require any tweaking other than normal system settings. It will work against you over time.

It is perfectly balanced so that tweaks introduce incremental instability which can subtract from it being feather-light and instantaneous

What more could you want?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Sep 2010   #53
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

My first suggestion would be to start a thread in the Crashes and Debugging forum.



EDIT:
You should go back to this thread you started and follow the recommendations given in the Crashes and Debugging forum.

Bad_pool_header


I see you have already updated your drivers and most importantly the chipset drivers in this thread in the Drivers Forum.

Driver causes BSOD

This information would have been useful for all the people trying to help you here.


I see that the information given here was confirmed in your post in the Hardware & Devices forum.

RAM Timings


Your Driver Verifier issue was explained and discussed here.

Page fault in non paged area


And another in Crashes & Debugging where you were getting BSoDs analysed and suddenly stopped saying you would live 'with 2.1 audio till I reinstall again' !! What does that mean?

BSOD after reinstall

You should stay with one thread until you get the issues resolved instead of starting several and not completing them.

Not giving the things that you have already tried when you post a new thread is not being honest with the people that are trying to help you.

These methods will get you less help from the members here, instead of getting the answer you want to hear.

End/EDIT




Mention or include a link to this thread for reference.

You need to have the BSoDs analysed, the people there are good at this.
Once the causes are narrowed down, this will help to get to the source of the BSoDs.

This may or may not be the cause but, there is a known AMD integrated memory controller issue that has been fixed by setting the RAM timings manually and bump the RAM voltage if necessary.

VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING AMD AM3 CPU's and RAM SPEEDS

Be sure to read the first post on page two, it clarifies ganged and unganged.


The first step needs to be analyse the BSoDs to determine the causes.

I have seen that setting the RAM timings and voltages to the appropriate JEDEC settings mentioned in this thread and many others in several different forums.
The does help issues with both Intel and AMD boards.
This AMD CPU memory controller issue suggested fix has shown positive results here in Seven Forums as well as other forums.

Overclocking or tweaking anything for performance gain at this stage is, of coarse, not recommended.
Manually setting the RAM timings to JEDEC specs, first four are usually sufficient leave the rest on Auto, and voltage will help the system stability.

We need to keep in mind that AMD and Intel CPU/boards are different and may need other methods to troubleshoot issues.

Search this issue with AMD CPU integrated memory controllers, you will find many, some with no resolution except RMA until the problem goes away, this above link's recommendation has helped.

My second suggestion, after starting a thread in Crashes and Debugging, is to use JEDEC specs and manually set the first four RAM settings, the voltage and insure it is in unganged mode. This will eliminate this variable and allow further troubleshooting to be more accurate.



@jalebi the OP,

What setting information is on the RAM cards?

You are in unganged mode, as is standard with default settings on AM3 AMD boards.

If your RAM cards show higher than 1333 MHz, the AMD board BIOS will set it to 1333 MHz or lower, this is for stability with the CPU integrated controller. It is not recommended to raise this as it can cause BSoDs.

Having 2X2GB RAM cards has been mentioned as being more susceptible to this known issue.

Also have noticed that previously you said that you changed the RAM voltage to 1.7v, Your JEDEC recommends 1.5v.
I would recommend to set it back to 1.5v for now.
Where did you get the information that 'it should have been 1.7v'?

Edit: Just found the recommendation for 1.7v is for Intel CPU/motherboards. More info below.
You should follow the JEDEC settings listed in CPUZ.

Too much RAM voltage can damage your CPU and integrated memory controller.

If it later is necessary to bump the RAM voltage you should do it in small steps and test each step with Memtest86+ and then Prime95.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jalebi View Post
I've performed a memtest for 10 hours overnight and it passed the test 10 times with no errors. I don't think the RAM is a problem.

One thing I did find curious was that the timings were 9-9-9-24 instead of the 9-9-9-20 detailed on the website. Should I change it?

Also, memtest clocked the speed at 667mhz instead of 1333mhz. The BIOS lists the setting at AUTO - should I change it to 1333mhz manually?
This RAM link states the RAM is optimized for Intel boards.

There is known problems with using Intel optimized RAM in AMD boards.
AMD AM3 boards can have problems with RAM not made for AMD, mentioned previously as being finicky.

Your best bet will be to return this RAM and get OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 / 1333MHz / Gold Edition / AMD Edition.

This RAM is optimized for AMD AM3 CPU integrated memory controller and boards.
It does state 1.65v, I would try to find RAM that will run with 1.5v.

RAM can pass these tests and still cause BSoDs, it's possible to have the same RAM fail the same tests if ran again. This is the same as your system not crashing every time you play games.
It's not a 100% indication that the RAM is OK.

As mentioned previously, the RAM will show 667MHz in BIOS but is actually running at 1333MHz, DDR means Double Date Rate, so you have to double the 667MHz to get the actual speed of 1333Mhz.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

11 Sep 2010   #54
CarlTR6

Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jalebi View Post
I suppose attacking the OS for my problems was a bit rash, but isn't it possible that the drivers would just work better with XP or Win 7 32bit? (assuming it is even somewhat software related).

Another strange thing is that I had some issues/BSODs with my first install (Win 7 ultimate x64) but different ones with my second (Win 7 Pro). Wouldn't faulty hardware cause the same problems across the two installs?
If you are running old software and hardware designed for XP and not updated for Win 7, you are going to have problems. (Almost) all of your 3rd party drivers (non-MS drivers) should be dated July 13, 2009 or later. Older drivers will cause problems on both the 32 bit and the 64 bit versions. Have you checked the compatibility of your hardware and software with Windows 7?

Windows 7 Compatibility: Software Programs & Hardware Devices: Find Updates, Drivers, & Downloads


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
Win7 doesn't require any tweaking other than normal system settings. It will work against you over time.

It is perfectly balanced so that tweaks introduce incremental instability which can subtract from it being feather-light and instantaneous

What more could you want?
Greg is spot on.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
My first suggestion would be to start a thread in the Crashes and Debugging forum.

Mention or include a link to this thread for reference.

You need to have the BSoDs analysed, the people there are good at this.
Once the causes are narrowed down, this will help to get to the source of the BSoDs.

This may or may not be the cause but, there is a known AMD integrated memory controller issue that has been fixed by setting the RAM timings manually and bump the RAM voltage if necessary.

VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING AMD AM3 CPU's and RAM SPEEDS

Be sure to read the first post on page two, it clarifies ganged and unganged.

The first step needs to be analyse the BSoDs to determine the causes...
Please start a thread in Crashes and Debugging. We would be glad to try and help you.

By the way, what antivirus and firewall are you running?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Sep 2010   #55
Keiichi25

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 and Home Premium x64
 
 

FYI, I am running on stock settings myself... I never really suggest messing with the system myself. Well, other than making sure certain drivers were in place.

One thing I do know, is there are some people who want more out of their system... Often times will try to mess with the stock settings to 'eek out more' from it, which is where the tweaking of memory settings and other things come into play.

The important thing to note... As many of us have stated... You really don't want to be messing with the settings unless you know what you are doing. It is a nightmare to tweak unless you have the patience and will power to go through all that.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Sep 2010   #56
jalebi

Windows 7 x64 Professional
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
EDIT:
You should go back to this thread you started and follow the recommendations given in the Crashes and Debugging forum.

Bad_pool_header

This is no longer a problem since I reinstalled.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post

And another in Crashes & Debugging where you were getting BSoDs analysed and suddenly stopped saying you would live 'with 2.1 audio till I reinstall again' !! What does that mean?

My audio drivers will not work without causing BSODs. Without them I can only use my speakers in a 2.1 configuration instead of 5.1



I'm sorry I did not mention those other threads but in most cases the problem has either gone away or is no longer relavant (i.e. I reinstalled).


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
My second suggestion, after starting a thread in Crashes and Debugging, is to use JEDEC specs and manually set the first four RAM settings, the voltage and insure it is in unganged mode. This will eliminate this variable and allow further troubleshooting to be more accurate.

@jalebi the OP,

What setting information is on the RAM cards?

You are in unganged mode, as is standard with default settings on AM3 AMD boards.

If your RAM cards show higher than 1333 MHz, the AMD board BIOS will set it to 1333 MHz or lower, this is for stability with the CPU integrated controller. It is not recommended to raise this as it can cause BSoDs.

Having 2X2GB RAM cards has been mentioned as being more susceptible to this known issue.

Also have noticed that previously you said that you changed the RAM voltage to 1.7v, Your JEDEC recommends 1.5v.
I would recommend to set it back to 1.5v for now.
Where did you get the information that 'it should have been 1.7v'?

Edit: Just found the recommendation for 1.7v is for Intel CPU/motherboards. More info below.
You should follow the JEDEC settings listed in CPUZ.

Too much RAM voltage can damage your CPU and integrated memory controller.

If it later is necessary to bump the RAM voltage you should do it in small steps and test each step with Memtest86+ and then Prime95.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jalebi View Post
I've performed a memtest for 10 hours overnight and it passed the test 10 times with no errors. I don't think the RAM is a problem.

One thing I did find curious was that the timings were 9-9-9-24 instead of the 9-9-9-20 detailed on the website. Should I change it?

Also, memtest clocked the speed at 667mhz instead of 1333mhz. The BIOS lists the setting at AUTO - should I change it to 1333mhz manually?
This RAM link states the RAM is optimized for Intel boards.

There is known problems with using Intel optimized RAM in AMD boards.
AMD AM3 boards can have problems with RAM not made for AMD, mentioned previously as being finicky.

Your best bet will be to return this RAM and get OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 / 1333MHz / Gold Edition / AMD Edition.

This RAM is optimized for AMD AM3 CPU integrated memory controller and boards.
It does state 1.65v, I would try to find RAM that will run with 1.5v.

RAM can pass these tests and still cause BSoDs, it's possible to have the same RAM fail the same tests if ran again. This is the same as your system not crashing every time you play games.
It's not a 100% indication that the RAM is OK.

As mentioned previously, the RAM will show 667MHz in BIOS but is actually running at 1333MHz, DDR means Double Date Rate, so you have to double the 667MHz to get the actual speed of 1333Mhz.
It seems I have linked to the wrong page for the RAM (I didnt know RAM was different for AMD and Intel mobos). This is the one I bought - its voltage spec seems to match the AMD edition but the link says its optimized for Intel...

Should I set it to the manufacturer recommended 1.65V or the SPD/JEDEC recommended 1.5V?


EDIT:
I've just done some research (e.g. source 1, source 2) and it seems that when using "Intel optimized" RAM in an AMD system, you should manually input the voltage and timings because the BIOS wont recognize them correctly by itself. Is this what I should do?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Sep 2010   #57
spyknee

W7 Ulti/64, XP Pro/32
 
 

You should use ONLY what the ram's manufacturer specifies, when it comes to voltage and timings. You keep asking, I keep saying same thing reguarding ram. Use manufacturers specs! Put 1 stick in, enter bios and configure ram, exit , add other sticks.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Sep 2010   #58
jalebi

Windows 7 x64 Professional
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by spyknee View Post
You should use ONLY what the ram's manufacturer specifies, when it comes to voltage and timings. You keep asking, I keep saying same thing reguarding ram. Use manufacturers specs! Put 1 stick in, enter bios and configure ram, exit , add other sticks.
I'm sorry, but other are saying don't touch the voltage/timing so I wanted a definite answer. I'm going to change the voltage and timing to the manufacturer specified numbers and run a memtest to see if it holds up.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Sep 2010   #59
spyknee

W7 Ulti/64, XP Pro/32
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jalebi View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by spyknee View Post
You should use ONLY what the ram's manufacturer specifies, when it comes to voltage and timings. You keep asking, I keep saying same thing reguarding ram. Use manufacturers specs! Put 1 stick in, enter bios and configure ram, exit , add other sticks.
I'm sorry, but other are saying don't touch the voltage/timing so I wanted a definite answer. I'm going to change the voltage and timing to the manufacturer specified numbers and run a memtest to see if it holds up.
They said, my friend, not to overclock your ram settings in bios. Every ram manufacturer has its own specs. Thats why mobos have choices. The auto setting is a default setting. It allows you to get a POST so you can go in and configure bios.

Your cpu should be at specs as well. All that you can configure manually should be. Think of it as removing a trains track switching, one track, one path, no decisions, better performance.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Sep 2010   #60
Keiichi25

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 and Home Premium x64
 
 

Yes, we said not to touch the settings as in not try and change them beyond the factory specs, Jalebi. In majority of your questions you kept asking us if you should change the RAM settings. Each time we told you not to because you gave us the impression you wanted to change them to something other than the base settings.

By all technicality... Auto should not be setting the ram settings to something questionable. If everything was set to default spec settings for the processor, everything else should be in proper settings.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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