Shut down/Restart

Shootist · 20 Apr 2011

Bare Foot Kid said:

Shootist said:

BFK. That is a little misleading. On most desktops, unless change by the user, hitting the power button shuts down Windows and then turns off the computer..

I don't know what PC you're using but with my ASUS board, holding the power button to shut-down the PC or the power restart button, I get a "Windows did not shutdown correctly" message at restart.

My point was it's foolish to use the power button to shut down Windows when there's a correct way to do that.

I have said all I will here, do as you like.

BFK he was NOT asking about holding down the power button. He was asking about shutting down using the Shut Down option in Windows.
QUOTE:
What is the difference between Restart and Shut down and starting again with the button on your computer
END Quote:

On all my PCs if I "PUSH" the power button the computer shuts down Normally, shutting down Windows and turn the PC OFF.
If I HOLD down the power button it takes between 5-10 seconds for that to register as SHUT THE POWER OFF NOW.
That is not Pushing the power button.

EDIT:
Quote BFK
My point was it's foolish to use the power button to shut down Windows when there's a correct way to do that.
End Quote BFK:

The power button can be used to shut the PC down normally and can be the correct way to do that. That changed when ATX boards came out. With AT boards the power switch was wired to the power supply and turn the power off or on to the PSU. It was a 120V switch. With ATX boards the power switch is a momentary contact switch and is wired to the motherboard. Allowing it to do many different things because the motherboard is in control of how it interacts with the OS and PSU.
Of course the power button is NOT the Reset button. That will Reset the motherboard and should never be pushed unless the OS is unresponsive, locked up.

gregrocker · 20 Apr 2011

I have a question about Restart vs. Shutdown with certain kinds of Updates.

I had always been told that if you have Updates cued with a "!" on your Shutdown button, it means they need install during boot mode and won't be completed until you Shutdown, since it assumes a simple Restart might interrupt your work too much.

However sometimes I see the "!" go away after a simple restart which installs the Updates, other times I see it remain until a Shutdown itself is done and a big wad are installed.

Which is it? Anyone know for sure? I'm tired of not knowing for sure.

Shootist · 20 Apr 2011

gregrocker said:

I have a question about Restart vs. Shutdown with certain kinds of Updates.

I had always been told that if you have Updates cued with a "!" on your Shutdown button, it means they need install during boot mode and won't be completed until you Shutdown, since it assumes a simple Restart might interrupt your work too much.

However sometimes I see the "!" go away after a simple restart which installs the Updates, other times I see it remain until a Shutdown itself is done and a big wad are installed.

Which is it? Anyone know for sure? I'm tired of not knowing for sure.

As far as I know shutdown, completely turn the PC off, and restart do basically the same exact thing.
They both shut the OS down properly, unloading all drivers and whatnot, saving any files back to the HDD/SSD and start the BIOS POST process.
On my system when I do a restart once the OS has shut down my fans start turning at full speed and the monitor power buttons go yellow until the BIOS starts to load and then the fans go back to the Silent setting I have in the BIOS setup and a short time latter the monitor power buttons go back to green.
That tells me the computer has started just like it does from a cold boot. Only not turning the power off completely from the PSU.

Layback Bear · 20 Apr 2011

I want to say first; thank you all for hanging in their. Yes I do understand the proper way to restart or shutdown a computer. Is either one better. Do they do the same thing with the operating system other than me walking across the room and pushing the button to reboot. The reason I ask is some times I will get instructions to restart and sometimes I get instructions to reboot. Is their a difference with the operating system. It's my fault for the confusion. With Windows 7 is their a difference between rebooting and restart. For example. In restart I sit their and it does it all by it's self. If I use shutdown off of the Start button I have to walk accross the room and at that time hit the button on the tower to start the computer. I'm trying to make sure that my updates ect. are handled properly by me.

Shootist · 21 Apr 2011

Restart and Reboot are the exact same thing.
There is no real difference between restart/reboot and shut down completely and starting the PC from hitting the power button. The only real difference between those 2 things is with a restart/reboot the power supply never turns off and with the other it does turn power off.
Is one better then the other, No. Is one faster and accomplishes the same thing, Yes.

Mike Connor · 21 Apr 2011

Layback Bear said:

What is the difference between Restart and Shut down and starting again with the button on your computer? What I mean is; does the operating system do something different other than I have to push the button on shut down? i.e. after a update does shut down and starting with button on tower do the same thing a hitting restart?

Shut down switches off power to the machine. When power is restored,( a "Cold Boot" ), the machine is completely reset and a POST runs.(Power On Self Test). These things are not done on a restart or "Warm Boot".

EDIT: It seems this is no longer true on most modern machines. The machine is completely reset and goes to a POST

A "normal" Windows shutdown flushes all relevant data, saves required data to the system, and then removes all power to the machine. Power to memory (RAM), etc is removed, and all stored data is lost.

A "Restart" or "Warm Boot" flushes data, saves required data to the system, stops program execution and then calls the 'unmaskable interrupt', (Int zero), the pointer is set on the input data bus to the first byte of memory, and this reads BIOS "bootstrap". If devices and memory have not been powered off the boot is a lot faster. This can sometimes cause transient errors, as there is always a small risk of "Data out of bounds" errors.

See edit above!

Simply removing power from the machine will not carry out any flushing or other operations, and there is a risk of damage to the Windows system and the risk of other data problems is greatly increased.

"Logging off" simply flushes data and restarts the shell.

As a general rule, a correct shutdown and a cold boot is the most reliable method.

What happens when you push various buttons depends on how those buttons are set up!

Regards....Mike Connor

Mike Connor · 21 Apr 2011

gregrocker said:

I have a question about Restart vs. Shutdown with certain kinds of Updates.

I had always been told that if you have Updates cued with a "!" on your Shutdown button, it means they need install during boot mode and won't be completed until you Shutdown, since it assumes a simple Restart might interrupt your work too much.

However sometimes I see the "!" go away after a simple restart which installs the Updates, other times I see it remain until a Shutdown itself is done and a big wad are installed.

Which is it? Anyone know for sure? I'm tired of not knowing for sure.

It depends on the update. Some require a complete shutdown as they can only be installed when Windows is not yet running.

EDIT. The above is apparently incorrect! That being the case, I do not know why some apparently need a shutdown and others don't.

Regards....Mike Connor

Shootist · 21 Apr 2011

Mike Connor said:

gregrocker said:

I have a question about Restart vs. Shutdown with certain kinds of Updates.

I had always been told that if you have Updates cued with a "!" on your Shutdown button, it means they need install during boot mode and won't be completed until you Shutdown, since it assumes a simple Restart might interrupt your work too much.

However sometimes I see the "!" go away after a simple restart which installs the Updates, other times I see it remain until a Shutdown itself is done and a big wad are installed.

Which is it? Anyone know for sure? I'm tired of not knowing for sure.

It depends on the update. Some require a complete shutdown as they can only be installed when Windows is not yet running.

Regards....Mike Connor

Well doesn't a restart completely shut down Windows and then completely restart it? It does on my PCs.

Mike Connor · 21 Apr 2011

Shootist said:

Mike Connor said:

gregrocker said:

I have a question about Restart vs. Shutdown with certain kinds of Updates.

I had always been told that if you have Updates cued with a "!" on your Shutdown button, it means they need install during boot mode and won't be completed until you Shutdown, since it assumes a simple Restart might interrupt your work too much.

However sometimes I see the "!" go away after a simple restart which installs the Updates, other times I see it remain until a Shutdown itself is done and a big wad are installed.

Which is it? Anyone know for sure? I'm tired of not knowing for sure.

It depends on the update. Some require a complete shutdown as they can only be installed when Windows is not yet running.

Regards....Mike Connor

Well doesn't a restart completely shut down Windows and then completely restart it? It does on my PCs.

Normally yes, but a warm boot does not reset the machine itself. Some things require a complete shutdown. Graphic drivers and other things are not reset on a warm boot. If the drivers are running, they can not be replaced.

EDIT: This is apparently no longer true on modern Windows machines. My apologies if I misled anybody.

Regards....Mike Connor

Shootist · 21 Apr 2011

Mike Connor said:

Shootist said:

Mike Connor said:

It depends on the update. Some require a complete shutdown as they can only be installed when Windows is not yet running.

Regards....Mike Connor

Well doesn't a restart completely shut down Windows and then completely restart it? It does on my PCs.

Normally yes, but a warm boot does not reset the machine. Some things require a complete shutdown. Graphic drivers and other things are not reset on a warm boot. If the drivers are running, they can not be replaced.

Regards....Mike Connor

You know I have to kinda disagree, at least on my system and any system I have ever used.
When I do a Restart from inside Windows my system goes through all the POST Processes. Screens turn completely off going into power save mode, power buttons turning yellow. Motherboard doing all the checks of RAM, CPU, Chipset and the corresponding MB LED lights doing there thing telling you which check it is doing. Then the power buttons on my monitors turn back to green. Keyboard light flash. Mouse starts to light up. BIOS screen is then displayed listing RAM and other hardware in the system. Then the OS starts with the Windows splash screen.
I would have to say that all hardware is being reset during this process. I wouldn't think anything is retained in RAM or any drivers loaded during this process, especially video drivers. How could it be.
Now if I did a Log Off of Windows, where nothing turns off, and then Logged back on then most everything stored in memory would be retained.

Maybe your system is different then any I have ever used. But in all my years of using a computer a Restart is just that. A complete shutdown of the system, other then the power supply turning off, and then a restarting of all processes including the BIOS POST.