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Windows 7: Windows 7 x64 - 16 bit games - Dual boot XP

23 May 2011   #21
theog

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

ME/XP/Vista/Win7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Shadowjk View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mirriam View Post
I have been fighting with this for some time now and I can tell you what I have found so far, its not a pretty picture. As others have said running XP in a virtual machine is not going to help you. XP Mode running under Win7 is not going to support anything even approaching high end graphics..the performance just isn't there, it appears to me at least to just be a method of running older non-game software under Win7 so people don't have to buy newer updated versions of software they already own. VmWare is better but installing it is not going to be any easier than just dual booting XP and as you plan on partitioning your drives anyway, you may as well set your system up as a dual boot. Problem no one has mentioned is XP does not have drivers for SATA drives. Therefore you are going to have to find and install SATA drivers during the install of XP or it won't even see your HD's. I would suggest as you are building the system yourself, installing a floppy, it will make installing the drivers easier, otherwise you have to create a custom XP installation disc with the drivers on it, which is more complicated than it sounds. In my case I just bought a used older computer that doesn't have SATA drives and already had XP on it to begin with, but what you want is possible its just a little harder than you might have thought. Also if you decide to go with a dual-boot system, install XP first, it will save you some additional problems with XP overwriting Win7 boot files if you install Win7 first.
SATA Drives may work with XP If not try to Disbale the Native SATA In your BIOS

Josh
No need to play with BIOS.

First check for all the Win XP drivers for your hardware on the manufacturer's web site.
If your Win XP CD, does not support your Sata Controller, you will need to load drivers to uses at F6.
Load Sata Controller drivers with a floppy disk is the best way.
SATA Drivers - Load in Windows XP Setup on Dual Boot
OR
SATA Drivers - Slipstream into Windows XP CD


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
23 May 2011   #22
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18.2 MATE, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
jDoom

JDoom works without needing DOSBox.

A bonus is the inclusion of 3D models for the 2D originals.
It also allows you to play updated versions of Heretic and Hexen. #
Doom Jdoom package - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com

# You need to get the wad files to play all of the different versions though. #
You could try here:
Doom Wad Station

I found the setup a little bit tricky (when I last installed it).
Actually I might try installing it again now.

Additional
My bad.
You can install it in W7 SP1 (32 bit) NOT W7 SP1 (64 bit).

I'll see if I can get DOSBox to run it in W7 64 bit
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2011   #23
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
Try installing the older games in Win7 Compatibility Mode
I don't think 16-bit apps will install under a 64-bit OS, even in compatibility mode.

64-bit versions of Windows do not support 16-bit components, 16-bit processes, or 16-bit applications
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

24 May 2011   #24
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by theog View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Shadowjk View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mirriam View Post
I have been fighting with this for some time now and I can tell you what I have found so far, its not a pretty picture. As others have said running XP in a virtual machine is not going to help you. XP Mode running under Win7 is not going to support anything even approaching high end graphics..the performance just isn't there, it appears to me at least to just be a method of running older non-game software under Win7 so people don't have to buy newer updated versions of software they already own. VmWare is better but installing it is not going to be any easier than just dual booting XP and as you plan on partitioning your drives anyway, you may as well set your system up as a dual boot. Problem no one has mentioned is XP does not have drivers for SATA drives. Therefore you are going to have to find and install SATA drivers during the install of XP or it won't even see your HD's. I would suggest as you are building the system yourself, installing a floppy, it will make installing the drivers easier, otherwise you have to create a custom XP installation disc with the drivers on it, which is more complicated than it sounds. In my case I just bought a used older computer that doesn't have SATA drives and already had XP on it to begin with, but what you want is possible its just a little harder than you might have thought. Also if you decide to go with a dual-boot system, install XP first, it will save you some additional problems with XP overwriting Win7 boot files if you install Win7 first.
SATA Drives may work with XP If not try to Disbale the Native SATA In your BIOS

Josh
No need to play with BIOS.

First check for all the Win XP drivers for your hardware on the manufacturer's web site.
If your Win XP CD, does not support your Sata Controller, you will need to load drivers to uses at F6.
Load Sata Controller drivers with a floppy disk is the best way.
SATA Drivers - Load in Windows XP Setup on Dual Boot
OR
SATA Drivers - Slipstream into Windows XP CD

Hi there
XP DOES have SATA drivers although you need to slipstream them into the OS install disk before doing the XP install.

Most machines don't have a Floppy disk so you won't be able to load the drivers at XP Install time prompt -- the XP system will ONLY load these at install time from a FLOPPY DISK - that's why the Slipstream method has to be used for a NATIVE XP install.

Read more here on how to do this especially if you can't find or download the original manufacturers drivers -- they might have gone out of business or whatever -- however the driver packs have almost every nown driver for XP in the known universe incorporated into their system.

News | DriverPacks.net

An XP VM these days does have decent graphics -- 3D is supported.

The main problem is when you need to access the REAL hardware which unless using USB devices a VM will get into trouble. This is why things like editing graphics and really fast gaming that require direct access to a good GPU won't work on a "Normal VM". The VM is isolated from the REAL Hardware.

(Using something like ESXi with a high end computer will allow "PCI pass through" which will allow the VM to access PCI / PCIcie cards just like the REAL hardware but that is way beyond the scope of this post)

Note XP MODE won't run on W7 HOME PREMIUM so you will need W7 PRO or above.

I'd be tempted to try a "Bog standard" XP Virtual machine using vmware player (FREE).

Set the XP VM to use 512 MB RAM so it will use almost no resources. You won't have to worry about drivers either when using the VM -- the "Virtual Hardware" is fairly simple - vmware will have it all set up when you create the VM.

Give the VM a decent amount of Video RAM (VRAM in the config file) too -- 48 MB should be fine -- the default is often quite low giving lousy graphics performance.

Note that "Virtualisation" has moved a long way forward since the early days -- the current version of vmware player (V7) can give almost 90% of Native speed whe the Host isn't too busy.

I'd avoid a dual boot scenario unless there really wasn't any other way.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 May 2011   #25
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18.2 MATE, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
jDoom and DOSBox

You can't install jDoom in DOSBox.
DOSBox won't run 32 bit programs.

jDoom only works on 32 bit Windows OS.
I've tried it in XP and a W7 virtual machine (presumably Vista 32 bit is OK too).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 May 2011   #26
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

With regards to XP Mode - I have hot swappable drives that use SATA and XP sees them when I plug them in. I also plugged in an external drive and XP saw it.

My point would be that if you used XP Mode the SATA drivers are included or are used through the host machine so that shouldn't be an issue.

Bear in mind that that XP Mode requires at least W 7 Professional (Professional, Enterprise, Ultimate)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 May 2011   #27
Mystere

Windows 7 64 bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mirriam View Post
I have been fighting with this for some time now and I can tell you what I have found so far, its not a pretty picture. As others have said running XP in a virtual machine is not going to help you. XP Mode running under Win7 is not going to support anything even approaching high end graphics..
I'm sorry, but what 16 bit application will require high end graphics? 16 bit was before Windows 95, and well before DirectX even existed. Some apps, like certain versions of Doom required OpenGL, but even the worst virtual machine today should be able to emulate pre-1995 OpenGL speeds.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 May 2011   #28
TanyaC

Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon | Win 7 Ult x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi there
XP DOES have SATA drivers although you need to slipstream them into the OS install disk before doing the XP install.
There has been a lot of discussion regarding SATA on XP in this thread. I've actually never had a problem with SATA drives on XP. My XP install CD is SP2

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Note XP MODE won't run on W7 HOME PREMIUM so you will need W7 PRO or above.
Ahh... Well that narrows the options. I've already bought Win7 HP.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I'd be tempted to try a "Bog standard" XP Virtual machine using vmware player (FREE).

...

I'd avoid a dual boot scenario unless there really wasn't any other way.

Cheers
jimbo
k, thanks for the tips.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 May 2011   #29
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Hi there
You *might* have been lucky with the SATA operating in "IDE Legacy mode" - In general if you have a later computer say with things like the INTEL ICH** Chipsets you'll probably find a "bog standard SP2" XP install will come up with a message "No Hard Disks found" which is why some (these days most) computers will need to slipstream the software for the chipsets into theXP install CD.

Running a full XP Virtual machine won't require this of course.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 May 2011   #30
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18.2 MATE, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
I second that suggestion.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
...
I'd be tempted to try a "Bog standard" XP Virtual machine using vmware player (FREE).

Set the XP VM to use 512 MB RAM so it will use almost no resources. You won't have to worry about drivers either when using the VM -- the "Virtual Hardware" is fairly simple - vmware will have it all set up when you create the VM.
I agree with jimbo45.
You'd only need to create a shortcut for your parents (on the host machine) and then create any shortcuts for the games on the VM.

VMware Player
VMware Player: Run Windows 7, Chrome OS - Free Download for a Virtual PC

The only "difficulty" that I've experienced with VMware is, I couldn't successfully create a VHD and install the OS at the same time.
I've always had to create an empty VHD and then install the OS as a separate action.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
Reply

 Windows 7 x64 - 16 bit games - Dual boot XP




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