Ubuntu 9.10 and Windows 7

wwoods said:

When and IF (and thats a HUGE IF) any linsux distro works out of the box without me tweeking config files, AND runs all the software and hardware I have connected to my system, I will consider putting it on my $2400 laptop, untill then....not a chance of useing any linsux distro. If I want a UNIX system, I have plenty real ones at work.

Why would I put a VW engine in my Lamborghini of a laptop ?

I think you are being a bit on the dramatic front. I've had a few Dell laptops, including my current E6400 machine that work right out of the box with Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04. Sound, wireless, network card, DVD Burner, webcam, etc. I notice that you mention "hardware connected to your system"...so you might have something that won't work (maybe a lexmark printer, etc).

Lots of problems with Linux come down to driver support and manufacturers who don't provide any information for getting their equipment to work. Personally, I just avoid these vendors and I have fewer problems.

I'm sorry to see that you feel that linux sucks (i can only imagine that is what you meant when you said linsux distro). It certainly isn't for everybody. However, for those who need/want/desire an alternative to Windows or OSX, it's a very capable, highly secure, robust system that can often run for years when properly setup without much of a concern.

And as far as the comment about Linux being a VW engine....I've personally seen quite a number of instances where Linux can run circles around Microsoft OS's on the same level of hardware. Again, I'm not trying to be a Windows basher...that's not my goal here....but in the proper environment with a competent/trained user...Linux can really shine.

pparks1 said:

I think you are being a bit on the dramatic front. I've had a few Dell laptops, including my current E6400 machine that work right out of the box with Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04. Sound, wireless, network card, DVD Burner, webcam, etc. I notice that you mention "hardware connected to your system"...so you might have something that won't work (maybe a lexmark printer, etc).

Lots of problems with Linux come down to driver support and manufacturers who don't provide any information for getting their equipment to work. Personally, I just avoid these vendors and I have fewer problems.

I'm sorry to see that you feel that linux sucks (i can only imagine that is what you meant when you said linsux distro). It certainly isn't for everybody. However, for those who need/want/desire an alternative to Windows or OSX, it's a very capable, highly secure, robust system that can often run for years when properly setup without much of a concern.

Nope, not being dramatic at all, even if I if I diconnect my external hardware (BTW I dont have a lexmark printer, I have a HP Laserjet) Linsux will not, out of the box, run every itrem on my laptop, I have tried, I have had several others try, It dont work.

On top of that, most of the software I use there is no GOOD linux alternative. As to your avoiding specific vendors...I will not buy hardware to support a specific OS, I buy hardware/software that does what I want.

Windows 7 RC supports every item on this laptop, and all the external hardware I have, right out of the box.

As for your contention its the hardware manufactures fault they are not releasing specs, why should they ? What benefit would that get them. Last I remember NVIDIA released a binary driver for their cards, yet the Linsux communtiy complained its binary, not source....shesh.

No, I will not use Linsux untill out of the box it supports what I use on MY systems, which at present, it doesnt. Its not that I am not capable of configureing a linsux system, I have a RHCE, several systems here at work I admin on are RHEL 5..thats not the issue.

The issue is that if I am going to use linsux on my laptop, it must be a 100% replacement for windows, all my software must have 100% replacements and all my hardware must perform at 100%, or it is not a viable replacement. And yes I realise that is a un-compromising attitude, but its my $$, why should I compromise ?

masterB said:

It's not worth it. I did this once in 2001 and I bought a $2200 laptop and now it's a brick.

It was well worth it to me, it all depends on the value you put on things, honestly, dropping 2k on a high end laptop every 2 years for me is ok.

bigcitycat said:

Ubuntu sucks. I really don't want to go out and buy a new printer so I'll stick with what actually works.

So, let's see if I understand. You have a printer which is provided by a manufacturer who doesn't provide any driver support for their hardware device in Linux and because of this, Linux sucks???????

I can see being frustrated and disappointed if this were to happen...but the fact remains that the printer works under Windows because the mfg provided a driver and information to Microsoft to make sure it worked and they didn't do the same for Linux. Avoid that manufacturer in the future would be my recommendations.

pparks1 said:

So, let's see if I understand. You have a printer which is provided by a manufacturer who doesn't provide any driver support for their hardware device in Linux and because of this, Linux sucks???????

I can see being frustrated and disappointed if this were to happen...but the fact remains that the printer works under Windows because the mfg provided a driver and information to Microsoft to make sure it worked and they didn't do the same for Linux. Avoid that manufacturer in the future would be my recommendations.

No, you dont understand...the issues are much more than a printer, that was just a simple example.....there are several things on my laptop that dont work under linsux. If you read my post, you would see I said all the external hardware asside, there are several things on my laptop that do not function, as well as software I use where replacements are not avaliable under linsux. Untill every function on my laptop functions underlinsux, I have no reason or desire to use it. NOTE I am at this time just speaking of the laptop, not external hardware

wwoods said:

On top of that, most of the software I use there is no GOOD linux alternative.

Well, that is a very viable argument. If you have very specific software requirements, then Linux might not be a good solution. It certainly doesn't mean that Linux sucks...it just means that it doesn't meet your needs.

wwoods said:

As to your avoiding specific vendors...I will not buy hardware to support a specific OS, I buy hardware/software that does what I want.

Ok, but take video cards for example. If performance from an ATI card and an Nvidia card is even, I will pick the Nvidia card every single time because it has been better for Linux support for a longer period of time in my experience.

wwoods said:

Windows 7 RC supports every item on this laptop, and all the external hardware I have, right out of the box.

As does Windows 7 on my machine...of course 99.9% of hardware is made for Windows...so this isn't exactly a shocking discovery.

wwoods said:

As for your contention its the hardware manufactures fault they are not releasing specs, why should they ? What benefit would that get them. Last I remember NVIDIA released a binary driver for their cards, yet the Linsux communtiy complained its binary, not source....shesh.

What does it get them...customers who buy their stuff. Sure, the open source community is not happy that the Nvidia driver is closed source....their general philosophy is open source so you can expand upon the code...but there are plenty of Linux users out there who go ahead and use that closed driver and get their 3d support. Many people like me who don't buy ATI video cards anymore because they have had poor linux support in their past.

wwoods said:

No, I will not use Linsux untill out of the box it supports what I use on MY systems, which at present, it doesnt. Its not that I am not capable of configureing a linsux system, I have a RHCE, several systems here at work I admin on are RHEL 5..thats not the issue.

It's hard to believe that a certified Red Hat admin wouldn't at least be understanding of some of the problems that exist for using that platform on the desktop. I too am an RHCE and an MCSE....I see pros and cons for both operating systems. Both have their place and both fill needs in my home. On my gaming box, because I need to play Windows games, I use Windows. But I certainly don't turn around and say "Linux sucks" because game makers are coding for DX9/10.

wwoods said:

The issue is that if I am going to use linsux on my laptop, it must be a 100% replacement for windows, all my software must have 100% replacements and all my hardware must perform at 100%, or it is not a viable replacement. And yes I realise that is a un-compromising attitude, but its my $$, why should I compromise ?

Nobody said you have to compromise, but it doesn't mean that Linux sucks. It just means it doesn't fit the bill for you.

Consider somebody who has 3 computers at home and doesn't have specific software needs and instead has basic computing needs (internet, email, pictures, music, and occasional documents/spreadsheets). The cost of licensing 3 windows computers, and maintaining them (reg cleans, virus scanners, defrag), could be a deterrent to them using Windows. In this case, Linux might come out ahead. It's all in the circumstances.

wwoods said:

No, you dont understand...the issues are much more than a printer, that was just a simple example.....there are several things on my laptop that dont work under linsux. If you read my post, you would see I said all the external hardware asside, there are several things on my laptop that do not function, as well as software I use where replacements are not avaliable under linsux. Untill every function on my laptop functions underlinsux, I have no reason or desire to use it. NOTE I am at this time just speaking of the laptop, not external hardware

sorry wwoods. I wasn't referring to something that you said, the printer example came from a comment made by bigcitycat. Please see the post that I quoted before my response. That response was not aimed at you.