Multi Boot computer - how to keep data and programs in sync

First of all, please let me say hi, because I´m new to this forum. My name is Markus, I am from Austria (Europe), interested in trains, computers (mostly programming) and music (I play the drums). I´m a member of the Open Rails Development Team and an administrator at Elvas Tower Railfan Forums.

Secondly, let me go medias in res

I have recently acquired a new laptop computer (Toshiba Satellite L70-B) to replace my aging Sony Vaio rig. However, this new computer came with Win8.1 pre-installed, which I personally actually have come to like very soon - but which won´t run many of the programs I use daily (of note is Microsoft Train Simulator and many of its supporting utilities and programs, which do not run on Win8+AMD Graphics card setup - Win8+NVidia is said to be fine though - anyway).

Because of this problem, I have made this computer dual-bootable with an HDD partition layout as follows:

Code:

#1 - Primary Partition - 100MB - NTFS - "System Reserved" - System, Active
#2 - Primary Partition -- 50GB - NTFS - "Windows 7 Professional"
#3 - Primary Partition -- 50GB - NTFS - "Windows 8.1"
#4 - Primary Partition - 831GB - NTFS - "Data"

However, as I´m likely going to use both OSes to about the same amount, I want to have my data and programs shared and synced between both OSes to the greatest extent possible. I have also already done quite a bit of online research on the topic, but have not yet come to a real conclusion what to do.

Here´s a list of possible ways of keeping data and programs in sync without too much duplication that I could go with. The list also shows to which extent I have trustworthy info on it, where I found, and what conclusions I came to (color coded: solution/info found -- only vague/partial bits of info -- not possible -- no info yet)

1. Sharing (parts of) the C:\Users\<YourUsername> folder between OSes.
   
   1. Can Windows' libraries feature (e.g. the My Documents library consolidates the contents of the public Documents and your user account´s Documents folders into a single folder for easier access) be set up to look for files and save to (the first folder opened in a "Save File As" dialog) a different location than in your userprofile´s Documents folder?
   2. Can the sub-folders of your userprofile´s home folder (e.g. C:\users\<YourUserName>\<SubFoldersHere>) be moved to other locations than their default?
   3. Can an entire C:\Users\<YourUsername> folder be moved to another location than it´s default?
   4. Can any of the sub-items 1 to 3 above be used to share folders/files without duplication between both OSes?
   5. Can any of the sub-items 1 to 3 above be used to merge user profiles folders between both OSes?
   6. What about permission clashes with any of the methods mentioned? (Access to the other OS' user profile might be denied...)
   
   
2. Using programs on both OSes
   
   1. Can I use programs on both OSes, even if the files for said program are installed to disk only once?
   2. Can settings that are stored in ...
      
      1. ... the program's installation directory ...
      2. ... C:\Users\<YourUsername>\Documents\<Program'sSubfolder> ...
      3. ... C:\Users\<YourUsername>\AppData\<Program'sSubfolder> ...
      4. ... in the registry ...
         ... be shared across both OSes?
      
      
   3. Will program installers that put some program data into My Documents, for example, recognize to where that folder has been moved?
   4. How would any of the methods under bullet point 1 (subpoints 1.1 through 1.4) influence sharing of program settings across OSes?
   
   
3. Are there any other recommendations / strategies WRT directory structure setup or keeping settings of a program installed to both OSes in sync between the OSes?

(Color code: solution/info found -- only vague/partial bits of info -- not possible -- no info yet)


Now to the info I found:

• According to Library - Set Save Folder and http://www.eightforu...indows-8-a.html, item 1.1 of the above list is possible, more or less without complicated steps. However, it seems like only one OS' libraries can be included into the other OS' libs. Also, the means of controlling data duplication in this setup seem to be almost inexistant - at least I have no info on that.
• According to http://lifehacker.co...7-and-windows-8, items 1.2 and 1.4 are possible, wihtout major problems to be expected, even if both both OSes point to the exact same folder.
• According to User Profile - Change Default Location a complete user account can be moved to another drive, as described in 1.3. That goes at least in Win7, I have no idea if the same process will also work in Win8. Also, the process is quite complicated and I have read indications elsewhere that problems might arise to access denial (see 1.6) by the OS (User SIDs differing between the OSes or administrator privileges interfering - no real hard info though, and many contradictions). And, merging of the two OS' User folders into one is not even mentioned.

• According to http://www.tomshardw...grams-dual-boot and http://superuser.com...7-and-windows-8, item 2.1 is entirely possible and should work completely flawlessly. With that in mind, programs that only store info in files in their installation directory (sometimes called "portable programs", like ORTS in portable mode), will inevitably run with the same settings on both OSes (item 2.2.1).
• As has been said above, folders like C:\Users\<YourUserName>\Documents can be shared between both OSes, thus, item 2.2.2 is also possible.
• Having tried to move subfolders of the <YourUserName> directory according to the instructions in http://lifehacker.co...7-and-windows-8, I have found that AppData cannot be moved this way. Thus, item 2.2.3 is only possible if 1.3 and 1.6 (merging a complete user folder without permission clashes) is done.
• As to sharing settings saved to the registry (item 2.2.4), and WRT installers recognizing a moved My Documents folder (item 2.3), I have not found any info at all yet.
• Influences of bullet point 1 on 2.2 (item 2.4):
  
  • All sub-items of 1 are irrelevant for 2.2.1 by the nature of the changes.
  • I have not enough info on 1.1 to say how it would affect 2.2.2 (2.2.3 and 2.2.4 would not be affected due to the nature of the changes).
  • 1.2 would in effect be the only condition for 2.2.2 to work, but due to reasons already mentioned cannot work for 2.2.3; It does not affect 2.2.4.
  • Item 2.2.3 would only be possible if 1.3 is doable, but I´m still missing some info there.
  
  

I need all help (comments, links, suggestions, experiences...) I can get with those things highlighted in red, please. Comments on yellow items are also highly welcomed, and if you tell me something new on the green things, it´s appreciated also

Please, keep the thoughts coming :)

Cheers, Markus

Thank you for the fast reply :)

gregrocker said:

You can move the active User folders that you use from each OS to the data drive following User Folders - Change Default Location.
[...]

I assume, the tutorials in "Option One" are OS-specific, are they?

Can I also merge my C:\Users\markus folders of both OSes into one on the Data partition? Or will that make the access permission play havoc?

gregrocker said:

[...]
However you cannot share programs except in rare cases where they will run from their .exe in installed Program File, which I would not do since it is really only correct to fresh install programs to the other OS.
[...]

I know I cant actually share programs between OSes, but I have read (as shown in my initial post) on multiple sites, including sevenforums, that I can just install a program to, say D:\someprogram (D: is my Data partition) in one OS, switch to the other OS and install again to D:\someprogram. Is this information wrong?

WRT sharing program settings between OSes, the method just mentioned would cater for that perfectly with "protable" programs, which keep their settings saved to e.g. INI files right in their installation directory (for example Notepad++). SHaring of settings will also be ensured for programs saving that info to My Documents (some Games do that...) when consolidating the documents folders only. And for programs saving settings in AppData, only merging the C:\Users\markus folders of both OSes into one will solve that, as I understand it.

Am I getting something wrong here? If so, please correct me (this is the first time I´m dealing with dual-booting and the resulting problems of data syncing).

gregrocker said:

[...]
So you'll probably need to expand those OS partitions by at least double the size, which can easily be done using How to extend partition easily with Partition Wizard - video help that can borrow space from any other partition even if it's not adjacent.
[...]

As I said in my previous paragraph already, programs will mostly be installed to the Data partition (unless they are specifically for one OS only) - if that works and I´m not conceptually wrong.

gregrocker said:

[...]
Another thing to keep in mind is that while you can upgrade either of those OS's to Windows 10 upon its release next month, you can also Clean Install Windows 10 Technical Preview in a third dual boot or to another hard drive or PC to test it now and get a free upgrade from the TP to Windows 10, too.

Thanks for the hint. I have already signed up my old computer for the update/upgrade, which will also be an excuse to clean that computer (physically and virtually) and do a system refresh before upgrading


Cheers, Markus

gregrocker said:

I would not move the User account folder as it can cause problems. Again, you want the User AppData to stay on the OS partition along with the Programs installed to that OS to avoid problems. [...]

What exactly are the possible problems?

gregrocker said:

[...] These write Registry keys to the OS that should be kept together with the programs and AppData on that same OS partition until uninstalled. [...]

Some programs do not create registry entries (e.g. portable programs) do not write to registry. Can those programs be shared across OSes without problems?

gregrocker said:

[...] There is no problem with moving specific User data folders like Documents to the data folder and sharing them between OS's.[...]

OK, so AppData should (and can) not be moved. The rest can, without problem, be moved to other drives/partitions and shared between OSes, if I read your post correctly.

As mentioned, there are programs that put some of their files (user profile definitions in games, for example) in the Documents folder. If I moved that Documents folder to another partition with the process in the tutorial you posted, will installers for such programs then recognize the new location of the Documents folder?

gregrocker said:

[...] But be aware that Win7 backup imaging will then want to include the data partition since it now contains System files. So I'd use an alternative imaging app like our favorite here Macrium Imaging.

If the OS ever becomes irreparable you can reimage its OS partition in 20 minutes and your data will be safe, still linked and current in its own partition.

When it comes to keeping backups, I have been keeping a clean image backup of the OS without any data for purposes of quickly recovering a working OS, along with a regularly updated incremental backup by Paragon Backup & Recovery. That image backup was created by Windows, though, so I´ll see if I´ll switch to another imaging software with that computer.

Macrium ,however, seems to have gone payware since the tutorial you linked was created. If possible, I´d like to go with some free software due to my limited budget (Doing compulsory civil service currently).


Cheers, Markus

MarkusGE said:

gregrocker said:

I would not move the User account folder as it can cause problems. Again, you want the User AppData to stay on the OS partition along with the Programs installed to that OS to avoid problems. [...]

What exactly are the possible problems?

Denied access to your Outlook.pst file for one as I found out unwittingly the other night while messing around with OneDrive.

Boozad said:

MarkusGE said:

gregrocker said:

I would not move the User account folder as it can cause problems. Again, you want the User AppData to stay on the OS partition along with the Programs installed to that OS to avoid problems. [...]

What exactly are the possible problems?

Denied access to your Outlook.pst file for one as I found out unwittingly the other night while messing around with OneDrive.

That´s a problem related to user files, I guess, and about which I have also read already.


On a the other side of my questions, what would the problems be with programs NOT installed to the OS partition (but still installed to a partition on the internal HDD)?


Cheers, Markus

You could use "portable" versions of your software (assuming they are available) to get around possible Registry issues.