I Want to Keep Windows 7 Forever

Barman58 said:

I've been in this industry for a lot of years and every few years you get the same hullabaloo when one OS is replaced by another OS - It's the natural order, hardware and uses evolve so eventually the old make way for the new. There is the slightly amusing thing that the same people that are blogging now about never wanting to leave Windows 7 were the same as those who ten years ago who stated they never wanted to leave XP.

Not me. I was happy to switch to Windows XP, and in 2010 I was even more happy to switch to Windows 7. I used to be a huge Windows fan - regularly defending Microsoft against criticisms from Apple fans. I was optimistic about new Microsoft releases back in those earlier days... but sadly, Microsoft lost their way and stopped caring about the opinions, wants and needs of their customers as they began their descent into increasing arrogance, under-handed practices and contempt for their users - obliterating any trust I had in them. Windows 10 is their pinnacle of a hot steaming pile of garbage OS. (And no Kari, if you're still around, I don't have that opinion just from reading about it... I suffered through way more hands on experience with Windows 10 than I would wish on my worst enemy.)

win7guy284 said:

I'd personally much rather be """unprotected"""/cut off from updates than M$ having real-time access to everything i type, do and save on my own computer (this has pretty much been proven to be hard-baked into windows 10's very essence - You cannot turn this type of tracking off on there no matter how many anti-spying/pro-privacy tools you use and which settings you change, it will still connect to redmond regardless).

I doubt that "tinfoil hat"-type name-calling/flinging around ad hominem would convince anyone truly conscious of these facts to make the downgrade to botnet10 - Also, if it would be as easy to track/spy on users in windows 7 as it is with windows 10 then neo-micro$oft would not be literally giving out windows 10 for free imo. You just continually pay with your data and personal information instead after having made the downgrade to windows 10 (Aside from the spying, w7 is also just faster and snappier out of the box in general, there are benchmarks that prove this).

I totally agree!

EmeraldShard said:

Wow, "tinfoil hat?" Haven't heard that one before.

All kidding aside, it's a credit to this forum in general that it took me two weeks to come across the same kind of dismissive trolling that any other outlet seems to provide the moment "Win7" escapes your keyboard these days. Around here I've gotten actual answers. Probably wouldn't have been able to get my new 7Pro desktop running otherwise.

But for the record: I gave Win10 the college try. For a good three years and counting, now. My current laptop came with 7 on it and since my desktop at the time had 7, I figured I'd go ahead with the upgrade just for versatility reasons. Since then I've had to laboriously go through the registry and group policy to turn off (most of) the telemetry, fight the update system several times to prevent auto-rebooting before turning them off completely because it refused to listen, run O&OShutup10 whose changes frequently get reverted, learn that 10 ignores any instructions in the hosts file to avoid connecting to its severs necessitating that you block them on the router level (which is pointless since, y'know, this is a laptop and it has to go on other networks sometimes), and put up with the terrible "app" form replacements to Windows accessories (e.g. Calculator, Paint) and large parts of Control Panel because apparently a stripped-down mobile interface is what we all want for our desktop machines. And for all that, the number of actual benefits gained over 7 as far as I'm concerned remains a big fat zero (unless you're going to argue that whatever post-EOS security updates MS releases for 10 are more important to security than, say, common sense, in which case I don't know what to tell you).

... I specifically consider 10 a downgrade because it actually requires more tweaking than 7 to make it workable, and because for all its faults, it brings practically nothing new to the table for anyone who couldn't care less about MS' attempts to create a multi-platform quasi-mobile ecosystem and just wants a functional desktop machine.

...So I wonder: am I a tinfoil hat because after three years I made an informed decision to stick with 7? Or because I even bothered to try turning 10's crap off?

You are a tin-hat wearer according to Kari because, like many of us here you made a well-reasoned and informed decision to avoid Windows 10 like the plague it is.

Kari said:

Really, geeks, it's time to throw those tinfoil hats away.

Microsoft is not interested in you and your life. There's no keylogger in Windows 10 sending your keystrokes to MS. The telemetry collected is ONLY to make your user experience better, to learn what you search, what aps you use, and so on, to adapt to your way to use Windows to be able to serve you better, make Windows user experience better. It is completely anonymous, only a few kilobytes, and does not cause any slowness or delay in your network connection.

Microsoft is absolutely not interested about your photos, they do not have a department to follow you and pick the photos in which you make yourself ridiculous to their staff cafeteria walls for their staff to have a good laugh. They will not contact your ex if / when you call her a bitch in a private Skype conversation. They are not contacting tax authorities if / when you tell a mate in an email message that you lied in your declaration.

To put it simple: Microsoft has absolutely, profoundly no interest in you.

A sad truth is, that the users who have the most issues with Windows 10 are those who try to "protect their privacy" and disable important Windows services. What's even sadder is, that most of this paranoia comes not from experience, but from listening baseless rumours. If someone mentions online that "Microsoft is spying you", sadly the tinfoil brigade members believe this.

My advice: consult a shrink, check your medication. You are not important enough for Microsoft to have any interest in you.

Kari

Wow Kari, you are a perfect representative for one of the most arrogant and obnoxious corporations of our time!

And tell me Kari, if the telemetry is ONLY to make my user experience better... why praytell does Microsoft refuse to give me a choice of whether or not to participate? Why does Microsoft turn it back on when users have managed to turn it off? Even if it slows my computer down to a crawl? Because just like you they think they know better than everybody else what is good for me?

EmeraldShard said:

Serious question here: do you actually think that making fun of people is going to cause them to have epiphanies which make them embrace Win10? Especially since I, the one who replied to you last time, went out of my way to specifically clarify having given Win10 more than three years to win me over? Or is all of the above for your personal amusement alone?

I'd be happy to have a respectful discussion with you about my or anyone else's reasons for not wishing to upgrade their personal machines to 10 (which include reasons well beyond the scope of "spying," even if we treat "spying" by your limited and deliberately caricatured definition). But for that to happen, I have to be able to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't just trolling, and you're not exactly making that easy at the moment.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't assume any given person is "quite happy" about the state of mobile devices these days. But given that a certain amount of data has always been available to your phone carrier long before smartphones even came along, it feels reasonable to me to say that phones were never a private platform. Therefore, I'm "quite happy" to simply relegate anything I consider sensitive to a device without such issues, which is where a Win7 or Linux machine comes in.

Functionally speaking, this just means I don't keep much in the way of documents or personal data on the phone or any associated account. It's just as well, since I basically treat the device as just "a dumb phone with a decent web browser" anyway.

Same here. I don't keep anything personal on my phone and just turn it on to make a rare phone call.

Kari said:

I'm not trying to make fun of you or other tinfoil hat users. I'm really serious, I feel sympathy and compassion towards you. The fact that you allow your decisions and opinion be shaped based mostly on rumours and your own beliefs, not fact-based things, it is very sad.

...Short: I really am not making fun of any of you geeks. I just sincerely, honestly pity you.

Kari

So arrogant again. My decisions and opinions are based on my own personal experience. Windows 10 is the worst, it is a horrible downgrade and Microsoft is no longer a trustworthy corporation.

Save your pity for those who need it, such as yourself. You have mine.

EmeraldShard said:

.. after I gave Windows 10 more than three years to prove itself as anything but a forced downgrade with few to no redeeming qualities, your explanation for why that apparently wasn't enough to give 10 a "fair chance" is that...... I should've kept the telemetry, forced updates, etc. on? Do I have that right?

See, the problem with your "pity" explanation (leaving aside the fact that "pity" is hardly any better, or itself more than a hair's breadth away from bald-faced condescension in the first place) is that you already tipped your hand in your first post in this thread. Evidently, people who don't want to switch to 10 are "refreshing and funny," and good for a laugh when one is sick. That, and your repeated implications that anyone who doesn't want the telemetry on is operating independently of facts, really does not give me the impression that you have any interest in discussing this in good faith (which, again, I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt on thus far despite your first post being a really good indicator to the contrary).

Kari's pity is worse than his condescension because it's the same thing just framed in a way that he can tell himself he's being compassionate toward those who think for themselves, but are therefore (to him) worthy of ridicule.

michael diemer said:

Given a choice between Tin Foil Hat Land and La La Land, I'll take the former. TinFoliHatter's may be a bit on the paranoid side, but LaLaLanders are way too naive.

Remember... just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

ian50 said:

1) I don't use the Droid or Apples. My phone is an old Windows 6 model, but still does all the things I need. Many 3rd-party GPS mapping programs are installed on it, but none of them phone home.

2) Win10's absolute rudeness in constantly commandeering your *personal* property, overwriting any changes to settings you may have made, is enough to keep me off it till my hardware goes kaput ! Then I'll try the usefulness of the tutorial here from JohnHoh on how to control Win 10.

Making Win10 look and act like Win7

As experienced by all with Win 10, the arrogant rudeness noted here is real - it actually happens, even without a tinfoil hat. And it happens repetitively.

I actually loved the Windows phone and back then was very hopeful that they would succeed. (And later, before Microsoft turned evil, I wished that they would bring back the Windows phone OS so I could have a more uniform experience.)

Now I will have to settle for a Linux desktop and eventually a Linux phone. I am very happy with that.

blue skies said:

Remember... just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

Oh, I know, I know!I'm constantly looking over my shoulder. and my monitor doesn't even have a camera. I'm taking no chances.

First there was the disaster that was Windows 8. So they came out with 8.1. Still won't use that crap to this day. Now there's 10 with all of its keylogging, telemetry and mandated updates crap that can and WILL muck your machine up.

Just a few posts on my own forum that describes 10's madness.

https://cyberpcforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=319

https://cyberpcforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=536 <---- I get a lot of search traffic on that one


Now it's true that you'll need to update since it will be very hard to find a motherboard and CPU or even a new laptop that will support 7. Plus the software compatibility will be going away in at least 15 years time with 7 and the browser. I plan on using a very nerdy approach to 10 with a nettop running Pfsense blocking outboud M$ ASNs and monitoring my network with a plunder bug for stuff that shouldn't be there. If I'm not seeing multicast, Spotify, Protonmail bridge, etc traffic emanating from MY PC then I'm going to investigate that IP and may block it or ASN in Pfsense. If I need an update I'll fire up the VPN and bypass the firewall. That's not to say I'll also run Shutup10 or one of its variants.

So you really have two options going forward. Use Linux (check out Qubes) or nerd out your computer like I will to use a damn OS so you can still game. Microsoft has turned you into their cash cow much like how a smartphone has in the form of telemetry, Ads, and pay to play bullcrap like Candy Crush, etc. I know full well what my phone is capable of so I limit what I use it for. It certainly isn't my main way of browsing the Internet, and if I need to browse the Internet on my phone I use the DuckDuckGO browser. Better than Chrome et al. Did you know whether you use Facebook or not many Apps communicate to Facebook? Unreal.

To those that think we should all just comply with what amounts to is a major privacy invasion, I ask you. Will you allow the microchip implant from /\/\otorola, Android, Qualcomm, etc one day? Will you be alright with cameras all over your house feeding back to some cloud even in the bathroom on the basis of "security?" Wait till your toilet analyses your crap with DNA for health reasons and that data being sent back to your doctor. Google already bought Fitbit.

I remember many decades ago there was unique identifier in CPUs and there was such an outcry it was removed. Now it seems no one cares about their privacy or their own PC (Personal Computer). What's good for the goose is good for the gander is the common trait of the human drone now a days.

Be a fanboy of the wolf and one day he'll eat you.

Have a party and obey your master, serfs.

RoWin7 said:

True of people who have one, but some of us carry a flip-phone.

Not sure how good they are, but research Blackphone and check out a burner phone App if you do use a smartphone. I use TextNow. I do this to segregate who gets my real phone number and who doesn't to control the possible spam.

Rokkor said:

I've enjoyed reading this board for the last few years as it really helped me maintain my Windows 7. I no longer have W7, but I do maintain my dad's PC with W7 on it...so I keep reading here looking for W7 security tips for the long haul. I understand some hate W10 or some hate W7, but there's no need to insult the users of any Operating System. Let's get this back on track and limit insults to OS and not aimed at people who use them. I hate to see this board turn into a free for all, as many, many people are still using Windows 7 and will need the boards help in the future.

Absolutely agreed. The reason I'm sticking around here for awhile aside from just making one throwaway post is because I actually got help for my issues rather than immediate dismissal for not wanting to put my new machine on 10. I mean, you guys have TenForums for a reason. I say keep the "upgrade" evangelizing over there.

F22 Simpilot said:

Now it's true that you'll need to update since it will be very hard to find a motherboard and CPU or even a new laptop that will support 7. Plus the software compatibility will be going away in at least 15 years time with 7 and the browser. I plan on using a very nerdy approach to 10 with a nettop running Pfsense blocking outboud M$ ASNs and monitoring my network with a plunder bug for stuff that shouldn't be there. If I'm not seeing multicast, Spotify, Protonmail bridge, etc traffic emanating from MY PC then I'm going to investigate that IP and may block it or ASN in Pfsense. If I need an update I'll fire up the VPN and bypass the firewall. That's not to say I'll also run Shutup10 or one of its variants.

So you really have two options going forward. Use Linux (check out Qubes) or nerd out your computer like I will to use a damn OS so you can still game.

This is why I just built new a machine with modern hardware over the holidays. Hardware, particularly mobos/processors, is rapidly ending support for 7 as we speak (the mobo I bought advertised itself as supporting 7 but it's clear to me that the OEM barely tested it with 7 at all, and didn't even bother trying with some pieces of it, particularly the wifi card which is explicitly 10-only).

My advice to anyone with the financial agency to do so and aging hardware: if you're going to get a new machine, do it now. I already had to jump through enough hoops with the USB compatibility to get 7 Pro running, and presumably it's only going to get harder over the next few years. But now that I have it more or less working, I can look forward to at least a few more years of 7 before software compatibility issues force me to go Linux.

I guess it's lucky I don't do much serious gaming, at least on PC.

F22 Simpilot said:

Did you know whether you use Facebook or not many Apps communicate to Facebook? Unreal.

Good rule of thumb here is always, always check app permissions and install the one with the fewest permissions possible for what you're trying to do. If you just want, say, a sound recorder, exactly why does that need full network access? Answer: it doesn't. It needs the mic (obviously), and filesystem access to store the recordings. That's it.

Some apps are obviously going to need more than that since they do more complex things, but then you have to ask yourself how important that app really is vis-a-vis the risk you're taking.

F22 Simpilot said:

To those that think we should all just comply with what amounts to is a major privacy invasion, I ask you. Will you allow the microchip implant from /\/\otorola, Android, Qualcomm, etc one day? Will you be alright with cameras all over your house feeding back to some cloud even in the bathroom on the basis of "security?" Wait till your toilet analyses your crap with DNA for health reasons and that data being sent back to your doctor. Google already bought Fitbit.

I remember many decades ago there was unique identifier in CPUs and there was such an outcry it was removed. Now it seems no one cares about their privacy or their own PC (Personal Computer). What's good for the goose is good for the gander is the common trait of the human drone now a days.

I mean, in fairness to Kari's crowd, this kind of thing can become a slippery slope argument if we aren't careful (not that there hasn't been abundant evidence for such a slope already, but it's still not a good look). I think a more accurate, if possibly depressing, take is that customers in general aren't "voting with their wallets" as much as they used to, primarily because companies like MS have been getting so big in the last couple decades that there's a widespread perception that it's pointless to try and resist them (see also: Amazon). So the result is these companies can shift their priorities to things that have an at-best tenuous relationship to what would actually benefit their customers.

I mean, data collection for marketing in a product you ostensibly already bought and paid for. That's the kind of thing a company pulls when they have little to no need to even try and dress it up as being beneficial for the customer.

RoWin7 said:

True of people who have one, but some of us carry a flip-phone.

Dang, that's hardcore. I was a non-smartphone holdout myself until around 2014, mostly because my thing is physical keyboards though. My current phone is a Blackberry KeyOne and I love the hell out of it (just, as I said before, I consider it an inherently non-private platform and curate the data I put on it accordingly). Not sure what I'll do when it dies. I've been keeping an eye on this one for awhile but I'm getting concerned that it's been "shipping in 4-6 weeks" for several months now. F(x)tec PRO1 | F(x)tec

Hi all. I've opted to not go to Windows 10 on my decade-old PC. I tried it a few years back and didn't like it at all. We have a Mac in the house, which I will use for bill paying, whatnot. But or basic internet usage (Firefox) and files access, I will keep my W7 going.

Which brings me to this. Microsoft Security Essentials still shows on my computer, says it's protected, still performs scans, etc. Should it be doing so? It is after Jan. 14, after all. Thanks.

JRad said:

Hi all. I've opted to not go to Windows 10 on my decade-old PC. I tried it a few years back and didn't like it at all. We have a Mac in the house, which I will use for bill paying, whatnot. But or basic internet usage (Firefox) and files access, I will keep my W7 going.

Which brings me to this. Microsoft Security Essentials still shows on my computer, says it's protected, still performs scans, etc. Should it be doing so? It is after Jan. 14, after all. Thanks.

I don't dabble with that too much, but presumably it's still usable for scans. It's not like MS yanked back your malware definitions this morning. It might nag you later on to update if/when MS stops giving out new definitions for it for Win7 machines, but it might be better to switch to a non-MS malware scanner at that point anyway.

^Thanks. I had read some articles that said MSE would not support the MSE platform, though that it would continue to provide security or something to that effect. Which contradicts a bit with the reports of no more security provided. Granted, I'm not the most tech-savvy individual, and maybe I'm misinterpreting, hence the inquiry.

I guess the test would come if something suspicious were found and whether it removes the "threat"; it says PC is protected, and virus and spyware definitions are up-to-date. But, maybe they won't be updated from here on out.