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Windows 7: Difference between Libraries and Folders with Shortcuts

22 Aug 2009   #11
Lanthus20

Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit
 
 

I like the libraries because it helped me in my switch from xp to seven. Now on my xp partition I had a bunch of pictures, but the libraries make it so that they are right there with the rest.

Same with music, documents, everything! It's really helped alot making the switch, and I think it's something that people will use.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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22 Aug 2009   #12
dhar890723

Windows 7 Ultimate RTM
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kegobeer View Post
AFAIK, libraries don't respect views of the folders that belong to the library.
More seriously, they don't respect the "Folder Views" that have been chosen with "Apply to Folders" in "Folder Options". For example, when I go to the Library Properties for my Music Library and choose "Music" under "Optimize this library for:", I don't get the columns I set up for my Music folder, which I designated to apply to all folders "optimized for music" when I used "Apply to Folders". The music settings do work in real folders, just not in libraries.

Quote:
I have several folders with the same name in a library, but since the entire path is dispayed, I am not confused by the names. If you want different folder names, give them different names.
I don't want to give the folders different names. They're organized and named exactly as I want them to be in the file system, and I'm not going to change this to accommodate a shortcoming in the design of this new "Libraries" feature. If it bugs me enough, I just won't use Libraries.

Also, in the folder tree pane, the full names are not given, so under my "Guitar" library, there are two items, both named "Guitar (X:". This just isn't useful. (I left off the closing paren after X: because the message board software turns it into a smiley. Anyone know how to defeat this?)

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That hasn't happened to me. All of my libraries have different views. I can change the view of the Music library, and it does not affect any other libraries. It might have something to do with whatever version of Windows 7 you are using - if you enter your system specs, we'll know for sure.
I'm using Win7 Ultimate RTM.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Aug 2009   #13
kegobeer

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dhar890723 View Post
More seriously, they don't respect the "Folder Views" that have been chosen with "Apply to Folders" in "Folder Options". For example, when I go to the Library Properties for my Music Library and choose "Music" under "Optimize this library for:", I don't get the columns I set up for my Music folder, which I designated to apply to all folders "optimized for music" when I used "Apply to Folders". The music settings do work in real folders, just not in libraries.
I think that because a Library exists as a container, it is outside any optimization the user sets. Since a library isn't a folder, I wouldn't expect this customization to carry over.
Quote:
I don't want to give the folders different names. They're organized and named exactly as I want them to be in the file system, and I'm not going to change this to accommodate a shortcoming in the design of this new "Libraries" feature. If it bugs me enough, I just won't use Libraries.

Also, in the folder tree pane, the full names are not given, so under my "Guitar" library, there are two items, both named "Guitar (X:". This just isn't useful.

I'm using Win7 Ultimate RTM.
Identical folder names in any library certainly can't be considered a shortcoming, IMHO. If I have two files named the same thing, I can't expect the OS to somehow know they are different, or provide me a secondary "title" that I can customize, which will only display in certain places. You can certainly name your folders however you want, but it looks like you'll just have to live with having two folders named the same in your library. The order folders are listed in the library never changes, so as long as you know which folder is listed first, at least you won't make mistakes when copying/moving/etc. It's not a fix, but it's sort of a workaround.

You didn't mention the folder tree pane was where the problem existed. That is true, the full path isn't displayed there. However, in the main window, the entire path is listed. I do not know how to enable the full path in the folder pane; this is something you could probably submit to Microsoft on one of the Windows 7 Social boards.
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(I left off the closing paren after X: because the message board software turns it into a smiley. Anyone know how to defeat this?)
If you want to disable smilies, wrap your text in noparse /noparse tags, like this:

Script:
[noparse];)[/noparse
;)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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22 Aug 2009   #14
dhar890723

Windows 7 Ultimate RTM
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kegobeer View Post
I think that because a Library exists as a container, it is outside any optimization the user sets. Since a library isn't a folder, I wouldn't expect this customization to carry over.
The design is inconsistent. Both libraries and folders can be "optimized" in their respective property sheets, and Windows defines exactly the same five categories for each, "General Items", "Documents", "Music", "Pictures", and "Videos". The only way I know to customize a category is through the obfuscated 3-step procedure involving selecting a category for a folder, modifying that folder's view, and then going to Folder Options and choosing "Apply to Folders". That procedure has always been horribly unclear and difficult to discover, but it's all Windows offers. There is no reason to think it shouldn't apply to libraries, and it's extremely surprising that it doesn't.

Quote:
Identical folder names in any library certainly can't be considered a shortcoming, IMHO. If I have two files named the same thing, I can't expect the OS to somehow know they are different, or provide me a secondary "title" that I can customize, which will only display in certain places.
At the file-system level, Windows provides exactly that capability when using hard and soft links, it provides it for shares at the networking level, and at the Explorer level, it provides the really bizarre, confusing, unhelpful "My" prefix renaming. If you can't rename folder "links" in Libraries, you can't do it, but it isn't because you shouldn't be able to; it's because the "Library" concept is still very incompletely realized and rudimentary.

Quote:
If you want to disable smilies, wrap your text in noparse /noparse tags, like this:

Script:
[noparse];)[/noparse
;)
I'll never remember that. Isn't there an easier way, like a toolbar button or something?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Aug 2009   #15
kegobeer

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dhar890723 View Post
The design is inconsistent. Both libraries and folders can be "optimized" in their respective property sheets, and Windows defines exactly the same five categories for each, "General Items", "Documents", "Music", "Pictures", and "Videos". The only way I know to customize a category is through the obfuscated 3-step procedure involving selecting a category for a folder, modifying that folder's view, and then going to Folder Options and choosing "Apply to Folders". That procedure has always been horribly unclear and difficult to discover, but it's all Windows offers. There is no reason to think it shouldn't apply to libraries, and it's extremely surprising that it doesn't.
I agree that it's inconsistent. Making a product suggestion is the only way it will get changed.
Quote:
At the file-system level, Windows provides exactly that capability when using hard and soft links, it provides it for shares at the networking level, and at the Explorer level, it provides the really bizarre, confusing, unhelpful "My" prefix renaming. If you can't rename folder "links" in Libraries, you can't do it, but it isn't because you shouldn't be able to; it's because the "Library" concept is still very incompletely realized and rudimentary.
I am not following your logic. Hard and soft links aren't the same as an identical file or folder - they are different. Also - shares are not the same, they are different and merely links to files/folders on another computer. Shortcuts are also not the same - again, they are just pointers to an original file. In these cases, someone makes a shortcut/share/etc.

In your original post, you talk about how you'd like the library to know or provide a way to rename one of the folders. If you want to make a symlink (mklink /D your new name d:\your original folder) to one of the folders, and put that symlink in a common place (perhaps make symlinks to all of your duplicate folders and keep them in a unique directory so you can find them easily) then you can include that in the library instead of the actual guitar directory. The files end up in the same place, and you have a different name in the library.
Quote:
I'll never remember that. Isn't there an easier way, like a toolbar button or something?
If you want to disable all smilies in the entire post, you can select "disable smilies in text" under additional options in the full edit page (Go Advanced, not the quick reply). If you want smilies in some places, but not in others, you have to use the noparse tags.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Aug 2009   #16
dhar890723

Windows 7 Ultimate RTM
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kegobeer View Post
I am not following your logic. Hard and soft links aren't the same as an identical file or folder - they are different. Also - shares are not the same, they are different and merely links to files/folders on another computer. Shortcuts are also not the same - again, they are just pointers to an original file. In these cases, someone makes a shortcut/share/etc.
The folders that are added to libraries aren't moved to the libraries in any sense. Instead, libraries contain a type of link to the folders. Given that I can rename every other similar type of link I can think of, I should be able to rename the links that reside in libraries. In fact, I'd say that's the proper place to rename them, and if MS agreed, they wouldn't have returned to the "My" prefix in the profile folder, which doesn't work anywhere but in Explorer. I guess the copious praise they got for dropping the much hated "My" in Vista wasn't sufficient.

Quote:
In your original post, you talk about how you'd like the library to know or provide a way to rename one of the folders. If you want to make a symlink (mklink /D your new name d:\your original folder) to one of the folders, and put that symlink in a common place (perhaps make symlinks to all of your duplicate folders and keep them in a unique directory so you can find them easily) then you can include that in the library instead of the actual guitar directory. The files end up in the same place, and you have a different name in the library.
That's an interesting idea, but it doesn't work as Explorer resolves the link when it adds it to the library. If it had worked, I expect the file pane would have displayed the path to the link, which I wouldn't have wanted. If it had been up to me, instead of Explorer displaying the following in the file pane:

Guitar (22) -----
Parent folder path

I would have used:

Guitar (22) ----- (but this is renamable and respected by the folder tree pane)
Parent folder path\Guitar (as this is the full object name, it is not renamable)

I mean, it does the latter (except for the renaming bit) in the "add location" dialog box.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Difference between Libraries and Folders with Shortcuts




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