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Windows 7: My Issues with Windows 7

02 Feb 2010   #31
Merlin2000

Windows 7
 
 

So where's the XP vs Win 7 reboot time post? I love these Win 7 guys.. it's good entertainment whenever someone has something bad to say about Windows 7.

Quote:
Do I wish it used less RAM on boot?
- Why does that matter? If the RAM is available, it shouldn't make a difference if it's being utilized or not. I think Win 7 tries to use as much ram as possible to increase speeds/responsiveness. It's a good thing isn't it?


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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02 Feb 2010   #32
BunBun

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Merlin2000 View Post
So where's the XP vs Win 7 reboot time post? I love these Win 7 guys.. it's good entertainment whenever someone has something bad to say about Windows 7.

Quote:
Do I wish it used less RAM on boot?
- Why does that matter? If the RAM is available, it shouldn't make a difference if it's being utilized or not. I think Win 7 tries to use as much ram as possible to increase speeds/responsiveness. It's a good thing isn't it?

Yes it is quite entertaining. I will try and do the restart times tonight.

I am not talking about cache, I am talking about straight used ram by process's and services. It's better then vista but its still over 900mb on boot (less if you have the page file enabled as windows automatically puts lesser kernel things to page file). I will continue to tweak some more and find ways to get this down but I wish it was lower by default and easier to manage.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Feb 2010   #33
Merlin2000

Windows 7
 
 

Ah, I see what you mean. Well, Win 7 is definitely heavier than XP (let's pretend Vista didn't happen, because everything's better than that junk) - would be nice if people would just admit/understand that, rather than complain about that complaint.

Given that more and more computers are going to have better, faster hardware (ex: more ram), this doesn't really bother me too much.

Consider what the average amount of ram was when XP first shipped out, compared to the average we see these days. Almost doubled? Now we have crazy people like you and me with 8gb ram, trying to figure out how we can utilize even more of that ram.. haha - if only I could add more ram!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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02 Feb 2010   #34
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Wow... nice post, BunBun...

I must say that I agree with most of your "complaints", Windows 7 is just different... The way it manages open windows, how it manage open tasks, how the new superbar works. I've been through all of those, and after everything comes down on me, all I can say is that "Windows 7 is different". I have to "adjust" to use 7, there is no other way. The way Microsoft breaks "how things are done in XP/Vista" (that include taskbar, notification area, the "Move" command [I too was looking for that, found it in Task Manager]), I applaud them for that. Microsoft should have rebuilt taskbar long time ago. I had my own headache with taskbar area, most of the time I'd have a scrollbar on a double height taskbar on a dual 24" (spanned) display, that is 3840x1200px...

Here's what I think is better in 7:
1. IMHO SuperBar is a little better (not perfect) than the original taskbar, it can hold quite a lot before I got the up/down scrollbar on the taskbar. It groups each "task" to it's icon, and show it visually using Aero peek (though sometime the mini preview window went MIA for some unknown reason, no biggie). I need several days before I can optimally use it.

2. The new "notification pop-up" you argue for few pages (although in the end you said it's quite a bit better than the old one) is one of the feature I like. It does take me several days to adjust, usually it will expand to the left, slides open, now it pops up... no biggie, I can see/select much better, I just need to watch more carefully because it's arranged as a "grid".

3. The overall system performance is one of the feature I really like. If you read my system specs, my computer is inferior than yours. But for now, this workstation can do what I want to do up to "good enough" stage. When I use XP, it is true when first boot up, XP is plenty fast, memory usage very very low. But over time (my XP's uptime is above 1 month normally) it slows down. Not in snail slow, just slower. Many apps would start to behave weirdly (maybe then memory manager went south?). Windows 7 is somewhat more resilient then XP in that aspect (I totally skip Vista, so I don't really have anything to say about it).

I must say, I do feel "limited" when I use 7 for the first time... UAC notification takes time to show up, changing ANY settings that have shield icon next to it's text will take sometime before it responds, installing programs will invoke UAC warning, and so on... These small insignificant annoyance can build up and make a "Power User" blow up. But all in all, it's much much better of using my hardware to the limit than Windows XP. Now, running 2 virtual machines doesn't bring the whole system down to a crawl... And about Pagefile, if you completely disable Pagefile, maybe performance wise you might not feel anything, but when Windows crashed (BSOD), you won't be able to collect the dump if you completely disable pagefile. I personally set my pagefile to 1GB (of 4GB physical memory) just for the memory dump feature. So that I'd know what crashed in event of BSOD.

After reading several post in the first page, I can't hold the urge... For the record, eSATA is just as fast as internal SATA, there is no difference at all, I'm on schedule to move my Windows volume over to my homemade SAN. The SAN volume is faster on small file operations (RAID6). If I can save some more money, I'd change the SAN <--> PC interface to FC, that'll give me ~400MB/s to play with, a nice trade between volume expandability/speed...

Enterprise class hardware, the one that uses tens of gigabits of bandwidth in storage traffic uses external storage, ALL of them... If you want to boost your storage speed through the roof, the only way would be to move your storage to external device, it's a lot more manageable than internal storage and much more expandable.

zzz2496
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Feb 2010   #35
BunBun

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Thanks zzz.

1. I never said I disliked the new behavior of the taskbar or notification area. In fact I love them and think it is a great step forward. However what I do dislike is the lack in options to how the entire UI is visually presented. Other elements like the pin of applications and lack of quick launch can be changed by not pining things and creating your own quick launch toolbar. I just get this feeling from Microsoft and most of the computer market actually that the big drive of everything is home entertainment (like all laptops having useless glossy screens now) and it cuts into the workability of the system. Pretty is nice but if it impede's my work then something is wrong. And pretty things that waste my screen realestate and make me move my mouse further and do more clicks is wasting my time.

2. The only issue I have with the notification area is the fact it creats a new window. The icons are further away and more spaced apart. It is not nearly as quick to access my hidden icons (which I hide all of them) However I like the new functionality and behavior of the notification area. It keeps hidden icons seperated from the non-hidden and allows more control over what or what isnt hidden.

3. I never stated overall performance was worse in 7 then XP (nor implied it). Overall Windows 7 is superior in many ways. But so was XP vs 98 when it came out. Just because CPU and Memory resources go up doesn't give a excuse for the OS to hog more of it. what's the point of constantly upgrading if its always going to be the same speed? I also never experienced slow downs in XP as I kept my machine quite clean and knew it was never designed to be always on. Fast shut down and boot up times meant I could shut it off when not in use. However Vista was too slow for this and I had to use S3 standby and essentially have up time for weeks at a time (which proved to cause a lot of problems on its own...). I think my 7 boot time now on raid is fast enough that I dont need to use sleep all the time again though.


And yes I don't get what problem all these people have with the word "external" blows my mind...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Feb 2010   #36
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

<sarcasm>
Maybe they never "tasted" a speedy external storage?
</sarcasm>

Anyway, though it's different in many ways, and the lack of options to restore the old behavior... All in all, Windows 7 is many times better than XP (my previous OS) and Vista, don't you agree?

zzz2496
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Feb 2010   #37
Frostmourne

Windows 7 Ultimate x86-64
 
 

Comparing 7 to XP is idiotic - resources have to go up and technology has to move - what is the point of stagnation? Hardware is cheap too. XP should die permanently and stop being used as a point of reference.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Feb 2010   #38
BunBun

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Frostmourne View Post
Comparing 7 to XP is idiotic - resources have to go up and technology has to move - what is the point of stagnation? Hardware is cheap too. XP should die permanently and stop being used as a point of reference.
Why is it idiotic? They are both OS'es based on the same platform with the same target audience.

Why do resources HAVE to go up for technology to move forward? When did efficiency get lost...

XP still has its place for now and Windows 7 fan boys need to accept that.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Feb 2010   #39
Frostmourne

Windows 7 Ultimate x86-64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BunBun View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Frostmourne View Post
Comparing 7 to XP is idiotic - resources have to go up and technology has to move - what is the point of stagnation? Hardware is cheap too. XP should die permanently and stop being used as a point of reference.
Why is it idiotic? They are both OS'es based on the same platform with the same target audience.

Why do resources HAVE to go up for technology to move forward? When did efficiency get lost...

XP still has its place for now and Windows 7 fan boys need to accept that.
Efficiency matches the hardware - I can easily put in a maximum of 16GB DDR3 for my motherboard right now - technology improves everything especially features and XP is virtually dead. No support for DirectX 10 or 11, poor security, and an ugly UI.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Feb 2010   #40
Merlin2000

Windows 7
 
 

Sorry.. but XP won't be dead anytime soon. XP is still used by over 60% of the people right now. From Jan 2008, to Jan 2010, Vista only gained 10% share in the browser wars.. It's going to be a long time before XP is phased out.

IE6 is still used by well over 10% of the people on the internet right now... and Microsoft is already up to IE8!

I still disagree with BunBun about keeping hardware requirements the same as new OSes are upgraded. I think the newer OSes/technology shouldn't drop features because they want to have the best minimum requirements. I think it's ok to raise the minimum requirements if you're adding features that can take advantage of 'em.

Sorry, XP has its' own role still. Win 7 does NOTHING for a lot of people, we'll be seeing XP for at least the next couple years.
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