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Windows 7: Windows 7 awkward feel, missing WinXP, need advice

11 Apr 2010   #31
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by devildog93 View Post
*************I could not operate a computer without My Computer, My Network and My Documents on the desktop... It's such a habit that the first thing I did was to figure out how to get them there... turns out it was real easy.

So... beware the "you gotta download this" or "edit that" gang... seek simple solutions... click on stuff, try dragging stuff around... you'll figure it out.
1 Minute Ago 02:12 PM**************************

Good point CommonTater, just messing around with it helped me learn alot, and make things simple for myself.
Occam's Razor... "When all other things are equal, the simplest solution is the best"


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11 Apr 2010   #32
devildog93

Windows 7 Professional
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by devildog93 View Post
*************I could not operate a computer without My Computer, My Network and My Documents on the desktop... It's such a habit that the first thing I did was to figure out how to get them there... turns out it was real easy.

So... beware the "you gotta download this" or "edit that" gang... seek simple solutions... click on stuff, try dragging stuff around... you'll figure it out.
1 Minute Ago 02:12 PM**************************

Good point CommonTater, just messing around with it helped me learn alot, and make things simple for myself.
Occam's Razor... "When all other things are equal, the simplest solution is the best"


I agree!
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11 Apr 2010   #33
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Wow... long thread. Hey Nick, if I may... I'd like to share my "usage model" in Windows 7. Personally, I rarely open start menu. Every application that I use is docked at taskbar, any child windows of those applications will show up when I click the docked icon.

At first, I tried the XP usage model, I created a "Quick Launch" menu (using a guide I found in this forum) and rely on Start menu for opening applications. The search feature is quite handy (I skipped Vista, so I only familiar with XP at that time) for "getting" apps I want from the jumble I call start menu... Then after several days, I started to experience difficulties of juggling open windows... See, my primary monitor is a 24" Dell (1920x1200 desktop resolution), the taskbar real estate is way shorter than in XP, just because I can't undock my quick launch toolbar off taskbar, and I have more than 30 open windows at any time and thus, I got SCROLL BAR on my taskbar . Not to mention I can't have a "connect to" menu that "fly out" so that I can connect to any of my clients with less than 3 clicks. It was all nightmare... Until I start ditching the "XP usage model" and start using "7's usage model", that is using jumplists, docking most used apps on taskbar then rely on aero to "see" open windows. So far its WAY BETTER than XP, I rarely see a scrollbar on my taskbar (unless I open more than 10 applications that are not docked on the taskbar [NOT 10 windows !!!]). Now, opening "Power Options" is just 2 clicks away, I docked "Control Panel" and use jumplist to access "Power Options".

Oh, and to get that "speedy-ness" in 7, I disabled UAC (DO NOT DISABLE UAC UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING). Once UAC is disabled, Windows 7 became super snappy...

Well, that's all from me...

zzz2496
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11 Apr 2010   #34
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote:
Once UAC is disabled, Windows 7 became super snappy
Before you disable the UAC, I suggest you read this. Tech Oddity User Account Control (UAC)
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11 Apr 2010   #35
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

whs, I know what UAC is... to me, it's a weird piece of technology that doesn't really fit anywhere, thus I disabled it... It's sandboxing process took way too much overhead, and is not fundamentally secure...

zzz2496
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11 Apr 2010   #36
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
whs, I know what UAC is... to me, it's a weird piece of technology that doesn't really fit anywhere, thus I disabled it... It's sandboxing process took way too much overhead, and is not fundamentally secure...

zzz2496
I know you did your homework. I just thought that is an interesting article for people that are not that familiar with the subject.
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11 Apr 2010   #37
severedsolo

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

slightly OT here, but that article WHS linked to, also links to this: Vista setuid – How to elevate without prompting
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11 Apr 2010   #38
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
whs, I know what UAC is... to me, it's a weird piece of technology that doesn't really fit anywhere, thus I disabled it... It's sandboxing process took way too much overhead, and is not fundamentally secure...

zzz2496
It's really nothing that doesn't exist in many of the other common operating systems out there. OSX, Linux, Unix, etc. I think it's really only strange to people who are used to just having Windows and always being an admin...which has proved over the years to be a dangerous problem that has left many systems in complete ruin.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
Oh, and to get that "speedy-ness" in 7, I disabled UAC (DO NOT DISABLE UAC UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING). Once UAC is disabled, Windows 7 became super snappy...
Care to share a bit about where this speediness comes from when you disable UAC? Aside from the fact that you don't have a small prompt when a program has to elevate to admin (and that should be few apps)...what else is happening which provides a faster system?
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11 Apr 2010   #39
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
whs, I know what UAC is... to me, it's a weird piece of technology that doesn't really fit anywhere, thus I disabled it... It's sandboxing process took way too much overhead, and is not fundamentally secure...

zzz2496
It's really nothing that doesn't exist in many of the other common operating systems out there. OSX, Linux, Unix, etc. I think it's really only strange to people who are used to just having Windows and always being an admin...which has proved over the years to be a dangerous problem that has left many systems in complete ruin.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
Oh, and to get that "speedy-ness" in 7, I disabled UAC (DO NOT DISABLE UAC UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING). Once UAC is disabled, Windows 7 became super snappy...
Care to share a bit about where this speediness comes from when you disable UAC? Aside from the fact that you don't have a small prompt when a program has to elevate to admin (and that should be few apps)...what else is happening which provides a faster system?
Why Windows 7 go all speedy when UAC disabled? The answer is easy, it's because UAC is running it's own safety measures (or sandboxed) to prepare the environment prior an application runtime. Sandboxing is known to be very resource intensive, look at JAVA, it uses a Sandbox to isolate the VM off our precious OS, no JAVA app can be as responsive as "native" app, for one because it's using a VM, second, everything it does must go through it's sandbox (it checks EVERYTHING to make sure that it's safe). All this overhead are disabled when you disable UAC. The right way would be using a limited user account, make sure that your limited user account can ONLY read system related files/subsystems (including registry). This way is MUCH SAFER than using that weird resource hogging UAC. NTFS ACLs is MUCH SAFER and faster to work with...

zzz2496
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11 Apr 2010   #40
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

While I understand that sandboxing can be resource intensive, all of the testing that I have performed with a stopwatch and a controlled test build hasn't shown hardly any difference with UAC on or off. I've measured startup and shut down times and have run through a handful of tests involving a handful of apps..some of which required UAC and some which don't require UAC and the timing tests haven't shown much difference at all.

While I agree that using a standard account is a far better security setup, I think it's somewhat impractical for most people. The amount of time to log off and on as a secondary admin account will consume far more time than the UAC system is going to consume. And when people have 2 accounts (one a full admin and 1 a standard restricted user)...it's natural for them to simply use the admin account for everything. Thus, in my opinion, the UAC system provides a nice middle ground.

In short, I just don't find the actual UAC system to be very resource hogging at all. Perhaps it's because every machine that I have used with Windows 7 is simply powerful enough to mask the issue.
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 Windows 7 awkward feel, missing WinXP, need advice




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