A Windows 7 network share dropout problem

Sorb

New member
I have two laptops both running Win7 Ultimate and connected wirelessly to a Billion 7404VGO. Each has its documents shared with "everyone". Initially I tried Homegroup but coudn't get that to work so went back to ordinary networking. With router freshly booted each computer can see the other's shares. If I keep working on a share on the other computer I can stay connected, but if I leave off to work on my own computer and come back later the shared files are all inaccessible. That is, each computer can still see the internet OK, but can't access the other's shares. Up comes a Diagnostic box and Win7 helpfully tells me to reboot the router. When I do that it's all OK again, until a few minutes of inactivity when the shares again become inaccessible. The same thing happens to a shared USB printer that's on one computer only - it's only accessible after a fresh router boot.

Any ideas?
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
First place I would look is power management. Sounds like the drives are spun down from idling. USB devices are also turned off to save power when idle. Normally.
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
SevenForums
OS
7 Prof
CPU
Q9550
Motherboard
Maximus II Formula
Memory
2x2 Mushkin Ascent 8500
Graphics Card(s)
4870X2
Sound Card
X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
Monitor(s) Displays
LN32A550
Screen Resolution
1920x1080
Hard Drives
Intel G2 80GB
5x1TB
PSU
Corsair 1000
Case
Cosmos
Cooling
Yates^13
Keyboard
G15v1
Mouse
MX518
Internet Speed
6Mbps
Thanks for the idea, but it can't be that as it happens when both computers are in continuous use by two different people. If the router is freshly booted and then, from PC-1, I work on a file that's on PC-2 I can keep doing so for a long time, no problem. But if I stop working on the PC-2 file, or I don't go to access the PC-2 file for some time after router booting, I can't see PC-2 at all. Both computers keep their internet connection without any problems.
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
Thanks for the idea, but it can't be that as it happens when both computers are in continuous use by two different people. If the router is freshly booted and then, from PC-1, I work on a file that's on PC-2 I can keep doing so for a long time, no problem. But if I stop working on the PC-2 file, or I don't go to access the PC-2 file for some time after router booting, I can't see PC-2 at all. Both computers keep their internet connection without any problems.

Given the fact that a router reboot helps, it may not have anything to do with the two PCs.

As a suggestion, test what happens when you reboot each PC individually the next time you're in a "problem" situation. In other words, leave the router alone but reboot PC1 and test whether that restores connectivity to PC2:

- Can you ping the other box by name? By IP? (in both directions)
- Can you connect to the shares on the other machine?

Then reboot just PC2 and run the same tests afterwards.

It may be the router itself which is for some reason actively or passively entering into "isolation" mode (clients can't communicate with each other).
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
Thanks for the suggesion. When I reboot the router each computer can see each other for about 5 minutes. They can ping each other by name and number. Once connectivity is lost the pings return "Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable." Rebooting the computers makes no difference to this...still unreachable by ping and still no connectivity to each other's shares. Internet connections are unaffected.
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
Thanks for the suggesion. When I reboot the router each computer can see each other for about 5 minutes. They can ping each other by name and number. Once connectivity is lost the pings return "Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable." Rebooting the computers makes no difference to this...still unreachable by ping and still no connectivity to each other's shares. Internet connections are unaffected.

It all points to the router - except for the ping error message.

"Destination host unreachable" means "I'm not going to try because my network settings make it impossible to reach that target." In other words, the machine never actually sent a ping packet.

Can you paste the output of ROUTE PRINT (from a CMD prompt) when it's all working and once again when it says "destination host unreachable"? It should be interesting to see the differences.
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
Hi H2SO4 - I sincerely hope your name doesn't reflect the smell in your region! I'm in Kangaroo Point, Brisbane AU where it's fine! Thanks again for your help. Here's the info:

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\>ping 192.168.1.3

Pinging 192.168.1.3 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.3: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.1.3: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.1.3: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.1.3: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.3:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 11ms, Average = 3ms

C:\>route print
===========================================================================
Interface List
15...00 22 5f b5 e2 3e ......Bluetooth Device (Personal Area Network)
12...00 26 b9 00 92 bf ......Broadcom NetLink (TM) Gigabit Ethernet
11...00 21 6a 63 d6 96 ......Intel(R) WiFi Link 5300 AGN
1...........................Software Loopback Interface 1
16...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
13...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
17...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter #2
26...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter #3
===========================================================================

IPv4 Route Table
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.254 192.168.1.4 30
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
192.168.1.4 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
192.168.1.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
Network Address Netmask Gateway Address Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 Default
===========================================================================

IPv6 Route Table
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
If Metric Network Destination Gateway
13 58 ::/0 On-link
1 306 ::1/128 On-link
13 58 2001::/32 On-link
13 306 2001:0:cf2e:3096:24c2:2721:3f57:fefb/128
On-link
11 286 fe80::/64 On-link
13 306 fe80::/64 On-link
13 306 fe80::24c2:2721:3f57:fefb/128
On-link
11 286 fe80::81d6:eb9:c819:a6b/128
On-link
1 306 ff00::/8 On-link
13 306 ff00::/8 On-link
11 286 ff00::/8 On-link
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
None

[Waited about 5 minutes for 192.168.1.3 to drop from view in Explorer]

C:\>ping 192.168.1.3

Pinging 192.168.1.3 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable.

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.3:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

C:\>route print
===========================================================================
Interface List
15...00 22 5f b5 e2 3e ......Bluetooth Device (Personal Area Network)
12...00 26 b9 00 92 bf ......Broadcom NetLink (TM) Gigabit Ethernet
11...00 21 6a 63 d6 96 ......Intel(R) WiFi Link 5300 AGN
1...........................Software Loopback Interface 1
16...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
13...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
17...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter #2
26...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter #3
===========================================================================

IPv4 Route Table
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.254 192.168.1.4 30
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
192.168.1.4 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
192.168.1.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.4 286
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
Network Address Netmask Gateway Address Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 Default
===========================================================================

IPv6 Route Table
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
If Metric Network Destination Gateway
13 58 ::/0 On-link
1 306 ::1/128 On-link
13 58 2001::/32 On-link
13 306 2001:0:cf2e:3096:24c2:2721:3f57:fefb/128
On-link
11 286 fe80::/64 On-link
13 306 fe80::/64 On-link
13 306 fe80::24c2:2721:3f57:fefb/128
On-link
11 286 fe80::81d6:eb9:c819:a6b/128
On-link
1 306 ff00::/8 On-link
13 306 ff00::/8 On-link
11 286 ff00::/8 On-link
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
None

C:\>
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
Hi H2SO4 - I sincerely hope your name doesn't reflect the smell in your region! I'm in Kangaroo Point, Brisbane AU where it's fine! Thanks again for your help. Here's the info:

The only unpleasant smell in northern Sydney is corruption ;)

I'm rather confident your router is stuffed. The route tables are (unsurprisingly) unaltered by idling, yet for some reason the "destination host is unreachable." That's gotta be caused by an ARP-level problem.

Could you please do similar "good" and "bad" outputs for this command: ARP -VA

I'm virtually certain you'll see "negative" caching of the other comuter's MAC address in those ARP tables. The router - or rather its switch functionality - is preventing communication between the two machines.
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
Did you mean ARP -a -v? That's the only combination that seems to make sense from the diagnostics I get if I try -av. Herewith (the second set after the usual 4-5min wait for the disconnect):

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\> ping 192.168.1.3

Pinging 192.168.1.3 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.3: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.1.3: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.1.3: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.1.3: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.3:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 20ms, Average = 7ms

C:\>ARP -a -v

Interface: 127.0.0.1 --- 0x1
Internet Address Physical Address Type
224.0.0.22 static
239.255.255.250 static
255.255.255.255 static

Interface: 192.168.1.4 --- 0xb
Internet Address Physical Address Type
192.168.1.1 00-04-20-12-4f-ee dynamic
192.168.1.3 00-13-e8-9b-68-d7 dynamic
192.168.1.254 00-04-ed-42-9f-54 dynamic
192.168.1.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static
224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static
224.0.0.252 01-00-5e-00-00-fc static
239.255.255.250 01-00-5e-7f-ff-fa static
255.255.255.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static

Interface: 0.0.0.0 --- 0xffffffff
Internet Address Physical Address Type
192.168.1.1 00-00-00-00-00-00 invalid
224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static

Interface: 0.0.0.0 --- 0xffffffff
Internet Address Physical Address Type
224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static
255.255.255.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static

C:\>ping 192.168.1.3

Pinging 192.168.1.3 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.1.4: Destination host unreachable.

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.3:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

C:\>ARP -a -v

Interface: 127.0.0.1 --- 0x1
Internet Address Physical Address Type
224.0.0.22 static
239.255.255.250 static
255.255.255.255 static

Interface: 192.168.1.4 --- 0xb
Internet Address Physical Address Type
192.168.1.1 00-04-20-12-4f-ee dynamic
192.168.1.3 00-13-e8-9b-68-d7 invalid
192.168.1.254 00-04-ed-42-9f-54 dynamic
192.168.1.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static
224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static
224.0.0.252 01-00-5e-00-00-fc static
239.255.255.250 01-00-5e-7f-ff-fa static
255.255.255.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static

Interface: 0.0.0.0 --- 0xffffffff
Internet Address Physical Address Type
192.168.1.1 00-00-00-00-00-00 invalid
224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static

Interface: 0.0.0.0 --- 0xffffffff
Internet Address Physical Address Type
224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static
255.255.255.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
Good:

Interface: 192.168.1.4 --- 0xb
Internet Address Physical Address Type
192.168.1.1 00-04-20-12-4f-ee dynamic
192.168.1.3 00-13-e8-9b-68-d7 dynamic
192.168.1.254 00-04-ed-42-9f-54 dynamic
192.168.1.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static
224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static
224.0.0.252 01-00-5e-00-00-fc static
239.255.255.250 01-00-5e-7f-ff-fa static
255.255.255.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static


Bad:

Interface: 192.168.1.4 --- 0xb
Internet Address Physical Address Type
192.168.1.1 00-04-20-12-4f-ee dynamic
192.168.1.3 00-13-e8-9b-68-d7 invalid
192.168.1.254 00-04-ed-42-9f-54 dynamic
192.168.1.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static
224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static
224.0.0.252 01-00-5e-00-00-fc static
239.255.255.250 01-00-5e-7f-ff-fa static
255.255.255.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static

The MAC address of the other machine is being negatively cached ("invalid") because repeated attempts to contact it have completely failed. The reason it continues to work if you don't let it idle is because the ARP table on the switch (router) is updated every time contact is made between two nodes - but that entry times out after a few minutes if there's no ongoing activity.

Try flashing the router's firmware. If that doesn't help, the router is physically pooched :(
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
H2...that makes perfect sense. Updating the firmware was my own first thought, but to no avail. The Billion 7404VGO router has been in continuous use for I think 3 years - since they first came out - and most of that time it has spent in a hot cupboard, so perhaps it's due for a ceremonial burial. Any suggestions? I need the VoIP facility.

Oh...your explanation also tells my why my Logitech Squeezebox (it's 192.168.1.2) has trouble accessing the music on PC-1 unless I keep it doing so continuously from router boot.
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
H2...that makes perfect sense, and thanks for the competent, clearly-expressed diagnosis. It's a true pleasure to read the work of someone who can put together an unambiguous sentence or two.

My own first port of call was to flash the firmware but it made no difference. The Billion 7404VGO router has been in continuous operation since they first came out some 3 years sgo, most of that time grinding away in a hot unventilated cupboard. It's due for a respectful and ceremonial burial :cry:

Your explanation also accounts for the problems my Logitech Squeezebox has had in accessing the music on PC-1.

Any ideas on a router? I need the VoIP facility.
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
H2...that makes perfect sense, and thanks for the competent, clearly-expressed diagnosis. It's a true pleasure to read the work of someone who can put together an unambiguous sentence or two.

My own first port of call was to flash the firmware but it made no difference. The Billion 7404VGO router has been in continuous operation since they first came out some 3 years sgo, most of that time grinding away in a hot unventilated cupboard. It's due for a respectful and ceremonial burial :cry:

Your explanation also accounts for the problems my Logitech Squeezebox has had in accessing the music on PC-1.

Any ideas on a router? I need the VoIP facility.

Sorry mate, both about your router and about the fact that I've got no idea "what's good" currently :(

Re the squeezebox, the switching problem exhibited by the router is presumably going to affect all devices equally. For some reason, the switch circuitry (in the router) now fails to establish a new virtual circuit between two ports, should its ARP table entries be allowed to time out. It only takes minutes.

There's a possible workaround though. A "real" switch can have hard-coded (static) entries in its ARP table. Depending on the sophistication of the firmware, maybe that thing will let you enter static mappings for the PCs and the squeezebox. That may bypass the "no new VCs" problem, potentially, maybe (unlikely!).
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
I originally posted the problem on Whirlpool (Billion 7404VGO can't share after sleep - Billion - DSL Hardware - Whirlpool Broadband Forums) where one of the first suggestions was static IP entries. I first tried that via the router, and then (after reverting the router to auto) in each computer separately, but none of that worked. As you'll see if you follow the whirlpool exchange, I first thought the problem had to do with sleep/wake cycles. That furphy goes to show how superstitious one can get in continuing to believe a certain item is the trigger when it is nothing but a correlate of the true problem. Happens throughout life I guess :sarc:.
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
I originally posted the problem on Whirlpool (Billion 7404VGO can't share after sleep - Billion - DSL Hardware - Whirlpool Broadband Forums) where one of the first suggestions was static IP entries. I first tried that via the router, and then (after reverting the router to auto) in each computer separately, but none of that worked. As you'll see if you follow the whirlpool exchange, I first thought the problem had to do with sleep/wake cycles. That furphy goes to show how superstitious one can get in continuing to believe a certain item is the trigger when it is nothing but a correlate of the true problem. Happens throughout life I guess :sarc:.

Not static IPs on the PCs but instead static ARP table entries on the router. More detail:

Conceptually, connectivity between two machines linked via the same switch is achieved on several different levels:

L1: Physical. Wires, plugs, NICs...
L2: Data Link. MAC addresses are here <---- your problem
L3: Network. IP addresses
L4: Transport. Ports as in TCP port 80.
...

Even though they are fully aware of each other's IP addresses, the NICs in your PCs must first work out each other's MAC addresses before they can send packets to one another. ARP (Address Resolution Protocol) is the mechanism they use to do that:

BROADCAST: "Will the machine out there whose IP is 192.168.1.3 please respond with your MAC address because I want to communicate with you."
RESPONSE: "That's me. My MAC address is aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff."

The requestor then caches the IP-to-MAC mapping in that ARP table you got from the "arp" command. The switch is meant to notice that exchange and think like this:

"I've just witnessed MAC-A on my second physical port talking to MAC-B on the 7th port. I'm now going to add those MAC addresses to my list of MAC-to-port mappings so that I can create a (temporary) link between the two ports when those machines are trying to communicate with one another."

It's the second part in the switch logic above which is not happening in your case. The switch "notices" the attempted communication from one port to another, but it doesn't bother to open up a link between them once the original mapping has timed out.

Enterprise-level ("managed") switches have the ability to let the administrator configure static MAC-to-port mappings: "MAC-A is always on port 2, MAC-B is always on port 7. These settings are not to time out." If your switch (router) is capable of something similar, it may serve as a workaround. Most consumer-grade switches are "unmanaged" though, so the functionality to add static MAC-to-port mappings is simply not there.
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
The facility I first accessed on the router is in the DHCP Server configuration under a heading "Fixed Host" where one can add a series of four-line entries, being: Name, IP Address, MAC Address, Maximum Lease Time. I did that for the four items on my network (three laptops and the squeezebox), associating the four sets of names, IP addresses and MAC addresses that I obtained from the DHCP table when the router was set to Auto. That didn't work, but maybe I didn't do it properly. I wasn't sure what to put for Maximum lease time.

Oh...I see..IP address isn't the same as Port.
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
The facility I first accessed on the router is in the DHCP Server configuration under a heading "Fixed Host" where one can add a series of four-line entries, being: Name, IP Address, MAC Address, Maximum Lease Time. I did that for the four items on my network (three laptops and the squeezebox), associating the four sets of names, IP addresses and MAC addresses that I obtained from the DHCP table when the router was set to Auto. That didn't work.

Yeah, that's the "router" functionality, not the "switch". In those consumer "routers" the two are munged together into the same box.

If the PCs communicated with each other via wired NICs, you could save some money on the fix by buying just an el-cheapo switch which would uplink to a single port on the router. In other words, all wired NICs plug into a separate (working) switch. That switch is then uplinked to the router via a single cable. Internet access goes through the "router" while local LAN communication all happens via the new switch.

Nasty workaround though. If you were thinking of upgrading the router anyway, now's the time ;)
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
I think I'll take the upgrade route :D. Having spent the best part of several days on this it's time to call it quits. Many thanks to you for your time and for the learning experience that this has been for me.

Over and out!
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
I think I'll take the upgrade route :D. Having spent the best part of several days on this it's time to call it quits. Many thanks to you for your time and for the learning experience that this has been for me.

Over and out!

Ex3rcise is a dirty word here, hence the ****** in the initial version of your post :)

Good luck with your new router!
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
Whaaaat! I didn't think I had put in those asterisks. I assumed something must have gone wrong and re-typed the word, but in doing so used a synonym without realising it.
 

My Computer

OS
Win7 x64
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