Lay your knowledge on me.

[OneSerious]

Hi everyone,

As usual I'm here to pick your brains in order to further my computing knowledge. I have a few questions regarding a couple of different things and just want anybody to jump in with their thought. So here I go.

1. Can a PSU bottleneck performance or if there wasn't enough power would the system simply crash?
2. How can I test a CPU to make sure it is running at it's optimum performance?
3. What sort of temperature is considered good whilst running high performance applications like high spec games?
4. Lastly, on finishing up a build and everything is where it needs to be. When turning on the power will the normal boot screen come on (motherboard branding or whatever)? If so, is installing Windows just a matter of following the the boot from disc option?

Any answers to any of the questions would me much appreciated.

Cheers guys!

 

[Brian the King]

1. Can a PSU bottleneck performance...

yes but it is rare.

2. How can I test a CPU to make sure it is running at it's optimum performance?

Run PCMark, 3DMark or SiSoft and compare to these lists (also iirc SiSoft has baseline scores built in when you run tests).

3. What sort of temperature is considered good whilst running high performance applications like high spec games?

good question, someone else will have to answer but I feel that it might change depending on which line of processor you have.

4. Lastly, on finishing up a build and everything is where it needs to be. When turning on the power will the normal boot screen come on (motherboard branding or whatever)? If so, is installing Windows just a matter of following the the boot from disc option?

yes and yes

 

[Casca]

Hi everyone,

As usual I'm here to pick your brains in order to further my computing knowledge. I have a few questions regarding a couple of different things and just want anybody to jump in with their thought. So here I go.

1. Can a PSU bottleneck performance or if there wasn't enough power would the system simply crash?
2. How can I test a CPU to make sure it is running at it's optimum performance?
3. What sort of temperature is considered good whilst running high performance applications like high spec games?
4. Lastly, on finishing up a build and everything is where it needs to be. When turning on the power will the normal boot screen come on (motherboard branding or whatever)? If so, is installing Windows just a matter of following the the boot from disc option?

Any answers to any of the questions would me much appreciated.

Cheers guys!

1. Yes and yes. Read about 'brown power'. Not all weak PSUs/builds are weak in the same way.

2. Are you working without mysterious delays? Are you waiting for anything?

3. A better question is at what range do temps become too high. Playing HD video is not the same as encoding HD video. Temps that are 'OK' for the latter are 'too high' for the former.

4. Pretty much. Others will elaborate. Insufficient data.

 

[OneSerious]

Run PCMark, 3DMark or SiSoft and compare to these lists (also iirc SiSoft has baseline scores built in when you run tests).

So I just did a few tests on the CPU using SiSoft. Damn, a wall of text appeard after which meant nothing to me.

2. Are you working without mysterious delays? Are you waiting for anything?

Computer runs sweet for most things. I'm asking in regards to games more than anything. Things like GTA IV, Metro 2033 and Crysis. I know GTA IV is a bit of a mess and pretty much takes a super rig to run, but as with the other games, the frame rate fluctuates a lot. I want to figure out if the CPU is struggling or if the graphics card not holding up. Or possibly a bit of both. Edit: I know all those games require a good set up but Metro for example can go from 25 FPS to 90 in a second.

Cheers for the fast replies guys.

 

[CommonTater]

1. Can a PSU bottleneck performance or if there wasn't enough power would the system simply crash?

In thousands of service calls I've never yet seen a case where a computer runs slowly because it's not getting enough power... This is digital circuitry driven on crystal controlled clocks... it works or it doesnt. An inadequate power supply is going to cause hardware errors, usually occuring randomly throughout the system, a very long time before it's going to slow it down or speed it up.

2. How can I test a CPU to make sure it is running at it's optimum performance?

Is your computer working?

A cpu is, again a digital and clock driven device... it works or it doesn't.

Overclocking might speed it up a little by changing the clock rates, but still the chip is going to simply do what it does, or not.

3. What sort of temperature is considered good whilst running high performance applications like high spec games?

Now here's something we can talk about... All chips, all electronics actually, have a maximum safe temperature above which you risk converting it into s puddle of solder. Generaly the goal is to keep things as cool as possible. In my own work I generally consider 55 degrees celsius as the point where I start paying attention to heatsinks and fans... under heavy load 65 is generally a safe upper limit for most CPUs.

If you want to look up your own chip you can usually find the thermal limits on the manufacturer's website...

4. Lastly, on finishing up a build and everything is where it needs to be. When turning on the power will the normal boot screen come on (motherboard branding or whatever)? If so, is installing Windows just a matter of following the the boot from disc option?

Generally I will get into the BIOS and check it over before proceeding to install windows (or anything else). The goal is to ensure your drives, memory and other hardware is all correctly recognized. You should also let it run on the hardware monitor making sure your temperatures and voltages are ok and stable. Also there are system wide parameters --boot order, drives, etc.-- that can be adjusted to help it start up reliably every time. DO NOT overclock until you are sure the system is stable for several days.



Then you can install windows...

 

[OneSerious]

[Now here's something we can talk about... All chips, all electronics actually, have a maximum safe temperature above which you risk converting it into s puddle of solder. Generaly the goal is to keep things as cool as possible. In my own work I generally consider 55 degrees celsius as the point where I start paying attention to heatsinks and fans... under heavy load 65 is generally a safe upper limit for most CPUs.

If you want to look up your own chip you can usually find the thermal limits on the manufacturer's website...

Well I've checked my temperatures a few times whilst gaming, and I don't think it's ever went beyond 56 degrees Celsius. I'm planning on a new cooler because the stock AMD one is noisy as hell.

Generally I will get into the BIOS and check it over before proceeding to install windows (or anything else). The goal is to ensure your drives, memory and other hardware is all correctly recognized. You should also let it run on the hardware monitor making sure your temperatures and voltages are ok and stable. Also there are system wide parameters --boot order, drives, etc.-- that can be adjusted to help it start up reliably every time. DO NOT overclock until you are sure the system is stable for several days.



Then you can install windows...

Not as simple as I had thought then. I'll have to read up a bit more on this. Cheers Tater, you've been answering a lot of my questions as of recent. Good man! Much appreciated.

 

[seekermeister]

I think that there is a greater danger of oveloading an individual rail of a PS, and having complications arise. For instance, some PSs have only a single 12v rail, thus all components will share it's amps, but others have multiple rails, and not all of these rails are equal. Let's say that you connect a high performance video card to a low power rail, you may experience problems, if this rail is shared with other components and the sum of their power needs exceeds the amount of power available to the rail.

 

[OneSerious]

Another question to add. If I'm playing a game, in this case Far Cry 2 and have all the settings maxed out. When things start to get a bit hectic in game and the frame rate drops, but my CPU is only working a 40-45% is it safe to assume that there is a GPU bottleneck, or could there be another explanation for the drop in FPS.

 

[CommonTater]

Another question to add. If I'm playing a game, in this case Far Cry 2 and have all the settings maxed out. When things start to get a bit hectic in game and the frame rate drops, but my CPU is only working a 40-45% is it safe to assume that there is a GPU bottleneck, or could there be another explanation for the drop in FPS.

There are multiple explanations possible... GPU is most likely, but also hard disk, controller speeds, etc.

 

[seekermeister]

Part of etc. is RAM.

 

[OneSerious]

There are multiple explanations possible... GPU is most likely, but also hard disk, controller speeds, etc.

Part of etc. is RAM.

Well I have 4GB of RAM and most if it isn't being used either. Would hard disk speed really be a major factor? I'm going to presume it's the GPU because all slightly lower spec games run fine, I assume if the hard disk was an issue it would crop up in those too.

 

[Tepid]

No,, not really,, as games are programmed for GPU,, so, the GPU does most of the work, that and RAM, the Hard Drive only plays a very small factor, specifically, read/seek times.
Which is why some newer games take a while to load, then play fine. But, using SSD, and that load time drops significantly.

Newest Systems now really are so fast,, that the HDD is the slowest part of the system typically.
But, with the Cache sizes of HDD's increased, you don't really notice it much.

Drop an SSD in and you will see just how fast the newer systems really are.

Even on older systems, you ofcourse will see a significant speed increase with SSD.
But on a newer system, it can really be day and night. So, really the slowest part of a PC these days is the mechanical HDD.

Edit: Yes, seekermeister is right about ATI drivers. However, I do have the 4890 and am quite happy with it.

You may need to drop the ingame settings down. and yes. The GPU will play the biggest part in games. So, with gaming, the bottle neck will first be the GPU, the CPU, RAM, and MOBO all play a part, but their roles are sort of combined. They each have separate timings etc. but they are all pretty much in line with each other do their nature. Bus Speeds, etc.
If the CPU, RAM and MOBO are right for each other, it all comes down to more the rating level (or overall speed) of the 3. RAM can play a part, but typically, good RAM is all you need.

In other words,, the largest majority of the newest games will play fine on a Dual Core CPU with good Ram and a Mobo to match. Your GPU will need to be high end though.

 

[seekermeister]

When you began this thread, your questions sounded more theoretical than something to apply to a particular situation. Now that seems reversed. If this was really about a game issue from the start, it should have been posted in the Game Forum.

Regardless of the hardware that you have installed, that doesn't mean that all of it is performing as it should. but if the only time that you are having a problem is with one particular game, it may have nothing to do with hardware at all...assuming that your hardware meets the minimum specs for the game, it could be a problem with the installation of the game. Actually, the possibilities are endless, therefore the fashion in which you designed this thread is not likely to provide a solution, because the solution will probably require a process of elimination by testing hardware, tweaking, etc.

EDIT: Just as a gut reaction, I would tend to suspect that the problem is due to the fact that you have an ATI video card. The card itself is good, but ATI has never been good for drivers.

 

[OneSerious]

When you began this thread, your questions sounded more theoretical than something to apply to a particular situation. Now that seems reversed. If this was really about a game issue from the start, it should have been posted in the Game Forum.

When I started the thread I had a few questions regarding a few things I wanted to know (just for the sake of knowing) and others regarding problems I had. Seemed easier to add something else that had come up since than to make another thread about Far Cry 2, because it was just an example I was using.

Regardless of the hardware that you have installed, that doesn't mean that all of it is performing as it should. but if the only time that you are having a problem is with one particular game, it may have nothing to do with hardware at all...assuming that your hardware meets the minimum specs for the game, it could be a problem with the installation of the game. Actually, the possibilities are endless, therefore the fashion in which you designed this thread is not likely to provide a solution, because the solution will probably require a process of elimination by testing hardware, tweaking, etc.

EDIT: Just as a gut reaction, I would tend to suspect that the problem is due to the fact that you have an ATI video card. The card itself is good, but ATI has never been good for drivers.

In general when I'm playing games the CPU is never pushing it's self to the limit and there is plenty of RAM going unused. I was just curious. That to me would suggest the GPU wasn't performing in higher spec games like GTA IV, Crysis and Metro 2033. Just wanted see what people thought.

No,, not really,, as games are programmed for GPU,, so, the GPU does most of the work, that and RAM, the Hard Drive only plays a very small factor, specifically, read/seek times.
Which is why some newer games take a while to load, then play fine. But, using SSD, and that load time drops significantly.

Newest Systems now really are so fast,, that the HDD is the slowest part of the system typically.
But, with the Cache sizes of HDD's increased, you don't really notice it much.

Drop an SSD in and you will see just how fast the newer systems really are.

Even on older systems, you ofcourse will see a significant speed increase with SSD.
But on a newer system, it can really be day and night. So, really the slowest part of a PC these days is the mechanical HDD.

Edit: Yes, seekermeister is right about ATI drivers. However, I do have the 4890 and am quite happy with it.

You may need to drop the ingame settings down. and yes. The GPU will play the biggest part in games. So, with gaming, the bottle neck will first be the GPU, the CPU, RAM, and MOBO all play a part, but their roles are sort of combined. They each have separate timings etc. but they are all pretty much in line with each other do their nature. Bus Speeds, etc.
If the CPU, RAM and MOBO are right for each other, it all comes down to more the rating level (or overall speed) of the 3. RAM can play a part, but typically, good RAM is all you need.

In other words,, the largest majority of the newest games will play fine on a Dual Core CPU with good Ram and a Mobo to match. Your GPU will need to be high end though.

I had actually looked at SSD's a week or so ago, fancied getting one but they where pretty expensive.

I'm currently using a 4850, it seems okay but I know it would struggle with some of the games I mentioned above. My mobo though was a cheapy (listed in my specs) I always sort of thought it might come back and bite me in the ass. As you can see though, I'm no expert. Maybe the mobo is fine but it was the cheapest part of the set up.

Cheers again guys.

 

[Tepid]

I am not familiar enough with AMD stuff,, I was just giving some general information that can be utilized across all platforms of hardware.

 

[baarod]

1. Can a PSU bottleneck performance or if there wasn't enough power would the system simply crash?

In thousands of service calls I've never yet seen a case where a computer runs slowly because it's not getting enough power... This is digital circuitry driven on crystal controlled clocks... it works or it doesnt. An inadequate power supply is going to cause hardware errors, usually occuring randomly throughout the system, a very long time before it's going to slow it down or speed it up.

2. How can I test a CPU to make sure it is running at it's optimum performance?

Is your computer working?

A cpu is, again a digital and clock driven device... it works or it doesn't.

Overclocking might speed it up a little by changing the clock rates, but still the chip is going to simply do what it does, or not.

3. What sort of temperature is considered good whilst running high performance applications like high spec games?

Now here's something we can talk about... All chips, all electronics actually, have a maximum safe temperature above which you risk converting it into s puddle of solder. Generaly the goal is to keep things as cool as possible. In my own work I generally consider 55 degrees celsius as the point where I start paying attention to heatsinks and fans... under heavy load 65 is generally a safe upper limit for most CPUs.

If you want to look up your own chip you can usually find the thermal limits on the manufacturer's website...

4. Lastly, on finishing up a build and everything is where it needs to be. When turning on the power will the normal boot screen come on (motherboard branding or whatever)? If so, is installing Windows just a matter of following the the boot from disc option?

Generally I will get into the BIOS and check it over before proceeding to install windows (or anything else). The goal is to ensure your drives, memory and other hardware is all correctly recognized. You should also let it run on the hardware monitor making sure your temperatures and voltages are ok and stable. Also there are system wide parameters --boot order, drives, etc.-- that can be adjusted to help it start up reliably every time. DO NOT overclock until you are sure the system is stable for several days.



Then you can install windows...

Tater. Sorry I can't rep you on that one. Your scales are missing. Ops?

 

[seekermeister]

I'm currently using a 4850, it seems okay but I know it would struggle with some of the games I mentioned above. My mobo though was a cheapy (listed in my specs) I always sort of thought it might come back and bite me in the ass. As you can see though, I'm no expert. Maybe the mobo is fine but it was the cheapest part of the set up.

I'm not really up on games, but isn't some of those games DX11? Generally, I do not consider Asus a cheapy MB, but from what I read here:

ASUS M4A785D-M PRO review

It doesn't support DX11. That may be a factor in your performance issue.

 

[OneSerious]

I'm not really up on games, but isn't some of those games DX11? Generally, I do not consider Asus a cheapy MB, but from what I read here:

ASUS M4A785D-M PRO review

It doesn't support DX11. That may be a factor in your performance issue.

When I say cheap, it was the cheapest of that range. Surely the just means the mobo's graphics chip set doesn't support DX11? Should the GPU not determine what DX version is available.