Perception changes fast

[mvierling]

Isn't it ironic that pretty much everyone hated Windows Vista (which I ran before Windows 7) and from an appearance point of view, Windows 7 is not really any different; but everyone loves Windows 7. Funny how a few good commercials from Microsoft changes things. As a matter of fact, Apple is considering price cuts. Gee, I wonder why? :shock:

Apple mulling price cuts, developing netbook competitor?

 

[swarfega]

The taskbar is heaps better than the vista one which didnt really fit in with the overall theme.

 

[Dragonfly]

I think I remember studies that showed that 45% of folks who "hated" Vista had never even tried it. Apple's FUD campaign worked a charm.

By cleaning up Vista as Win7, making it more responsive on lower powered systems, and seeding it out for free to millions, word of mouth - more than anything else - has turned it around for Microsoft.

As for Apple, it would seem odd that coming off a great first quarter they would consider price cuts, until you look closer at their results and see that a big portion of them came from iPhone.

 

[weh]

I was an early adopter of Vista and regretted it. I had one h-e-double-l of a time with drivers and peripherals. Nothing much worked as it should. And didn't. For months. Printers, scanners, software -- I couldn't wait or futz around. I had no choice but go back to XP. I use my computer to keep a roof over my head, not just as a hobby.

This time, what few problems have occurred have been essentially negligible. Most hardware was identified and installed properly by Windows, itself. I did have to twiddle with drivers for two things -- took all of an hour, tops. And all of my software works. No problems.

I realize that by the time Vista had been out 6-to-9 months, most of the hardware problems had been resolved. However, that is not acceptable. You don't suspend operations in order to get the latest and greatest. Something has to prove it's the latest and greatest by integrating relatively seamlessly into your operation from day one and adding value in the process. Sorry, but Vista failed miserably on all counts.

Essentially Windows 7 is what Vista should have been. And, had it been, I'd have been very, very happy instead of royally pissed as I was back then.

 

[johngalt]

I was an early adopter of Vista and regretted it. I had one h-e-double-l of a time with drivers and peripherals. Nothing much worked as it should. And didn't. For months. Printers, scanners, software -- I couldn't wait or futz around. I had no choice but go back to XP. I use my computer to keep a roof over my head, not just as a hobby.

This time, what few problems have occurred have been essentially negligible. Most hardware was identified and installed properly by Windows, itself. I did have to twiddle with drivers for two things -- took all of an hour, tops. And all of my software works. No problems.

I realize that by the time Vista had been out 6-to-9 months, most of the hardware problems had been resolved. However, that is not acceptable. You don't suspend operations in order to get the latest and greatest. Something has to prove it's the latest and greatest by integrating relatively seamlessly into your operation from day one and adding value in the process. Sorry, but Vista failed miserably on all counts.

Essentially Windows 7 is what Vista should have been. And, had it been, I'd have been very, very happy instead of royally pissed as I was back then.

Sorry, but this is a sore point with me - and always will be.

The driver problem was ***not*** M$'s fault, plain and simple. Vista had one of the longest gestation periods known to man in terms of the Longhorn betas, and yet the companies who write the drivers for their own devices hedged and hawed and refused to go back and write drivers for a lot of their older hardware. Case in point - Creative.

To say that *Vista* failed miserably on this account is to say that Vista (aka M$) was controlling the driver process, and that Vista should have included all those requisite drivers by default. You're overlooking several factors, and one of them is *major* and crucial to any discussion of driver issues in Vista - it's that M$ *rarely* writes their own drivers, especially for 3rd party hardware - they repackage someone else's drivers. Hell, even with their *own* *cough cough* hardware they are still re-packaging someone else's hardware. It's why I have a M$ Desktop Optical Keyboard with Fingerprint reader built in - and am unable to use the FP reder in any 64bit OS Vista or higher.

Other factors include the restructuring of the security and effective permissions of both folder structure and registry structure in the OS, UAC (kinda related to the previous, but also an issue in and of itself) as well as numerous other minor changes, like lack of direct kernel access for manipulation (Hello, AV programs?).

To put this on M$ when Longhorn was beta testing for up to 3 years (if not more) prior to Vista's official RTM is the equivalent of blaming your car for not getting you to work on time when you left the house 30 minutes late and then were forced to wait for a train to pass....

M$ did not control the driver writing at all.

This time, I have a *very* big suspicion that they *are* controlling it - in that they are being much, much more strict with their logo program for OEMs as well as 3rd party device manufacturers. Mind you, this is last bit is just a theory on my part - but it sure would explain why so many more devices work oob with 7 that provoked so many headaches with Vista....

 

[Jacee]

The driver problem was ***not*** M$'s fault, plain and simple

I have to agree with johngalt here.

One of the first things I did was to see which Vista I was able to 'clean' install as an OS on my XP Pro laptop (Compaq Presario V2000). You guessed it, Business! I bought the DVD, installed it and it's never, ever given me one single problem.

The next version I wanted to try was Vista Ultimate. I had my computer made for that OS and I loved it. Now, I'm running Win7 on it, and love it too. I guess I just love all my OS's, because I've taken the time to set them up correctly.

Sooo, in conclusion ... if things just never worked from the git-go, then it was the garbage that came along, or didn't get along with Vista on an OEM machine.

 

[johngalt]

<snip>

Sooo, in conclusion ... if things just never worked from the git-go, then it was the garbage that came along, or didn't get along with Vista on an OEM machine.

Very nice and succinct....

 

[weh]

johngalt,

You are right. Microsoft shouldn't be faulted for the lack of compatible drivers and/or software from the likes of Adobe, Hewlett Packard, Epson, Canon, Kodak, Nikon and Intel. (all of whose non-functional products I had to deal with - and whose equipment I use to keep a roof over my head).

Sorry, gamers, but I don't really care about Creative -- I can function quite well without a gaming sound card (my on-board sound worked fine). However, if Microsoft couldn't get major players like Adobe, HP, Epson, Canon, Kodak, Nikon and Intel on board with their commonly used software and hardware within the beta period, however long it might be, then the onus is on Microsoft to offer some alternative. And, Microsoft most certainly knew that many major players in the industry either were not ready or were not cooperating. While there's plenty of blame to go around, Vista took the heat. And if Microsoft didn't expect that, it should have. It was Microsoft that made the marketing blunder, never mind that many other major players provided the road blocks.

 

[Jacee]

Wait ... MS made their "markets" aware, and gave them their data bases ... so each one of them had their own details. In reality, who's to blame for the Vista 'blunder'?

This forum is about Windows 7, tutorials, trouble shooting, help, and so forth. I'm not going to go on with your bashing Vista. It was an important stepping stone, and either you agree or you don't. But, let's keep this forum about Windows 7

 

[weh]

This forum is about Windows 7, tutorials, trouble shooting, help, and so forth. I'm not going to go on with your bashing Vista. It was an important stepping stone, and either you agree or you don't. But, let's keep this forum about Windows 7

Mea maxima culpa. Wash my mouth out with Ivory soap -- I'm 99 and 44 one-hundredths happy with Win.7

 

[12eason]

Isn't it ironic that pretty much everyone hated Windows Vista (which I ran before Windows 7) and from an appearance point of view

Er, no they did not. Vista was hated because is was bloated, still is. A lot of people blamed the fancy gui for the bloat and they were right to a degree.

Windows 7 isn't popular because of some naff adverts. It's popular because its memory management is superb, much better than Vista ever was or will be. So again, it's not the appearance that has determined the popularity, it's the core OS

Basically that entire OP was a strawman.

 

[Elodil]

Adopting Vista in the first month of release I had a ton of driver issues (Nvidia). Some rendered Vista unusable until a new driver came out. It "just" wasn't as stable as XP. On top of that, the interface was drastically different than XP. Maybe people were having trouble adapting to the new environment.

Most people don't like drastic change or any change at all for that matter.

 

[johngalt]

TBH, there were a lot of mitigating factors in the bashing that ensued with Vista's release, and even I bashed it several times myself - however, the intrinsic value of features like UAC and not having direct access to your system even as a member of the administrators group made it worth while for me to continue to pursue as an operating system.

Unlike most people, I don't believe that my computer is 'smarter' than I am, nor do I believe that my computer is a 'set it and forget' device. Just like with my car, it needs regular maintenance and there is no way that I am going to trust an application that is not neurally connected to *me* to automatically perform tasks for me. I know that there are plenty of apps around that claim to be exactly that, but the last time I tried to, for example, allow Symantec's registry tool (it's been o long that I have forgotten the name of it) fix registry errors in my system in Windows (98 or 2000) it hosed my system. Ridiculously. I spent the next week deciphering what it had done and then finally ended up reinstalling from scratch (which, in and of itself was not a bad thing as it got me into the world of backups an as well as a reinstall strategy - including keeping all my old apps around for a quick an easy installation).

You may ask - wtf? does this have to do with Vista? Simple. I am one of the few people who *likes* all those UAC prompts. I am also the same individual that does not click the check box in IE to "not show me this prompt" again, and does that for every app I run. Why? because I like to be notified when my computer is going to do something before it does it. I am the master here, not the computer, and thus I make the decisions.

Even now, with Win 7, I have UAC cranked up to warn me about most things, and I even have Windows Update set to allow me to decide what gets installed, and I do that with all my apps - DisplayFusion, Firefox, Thunderbird, Office 2007, etc.

Why, you might ask?

Simple, yet again. I was online back in the day when Micro$oft's security certificate expired - and some hackers were waiting for it to and actually tried to buy and create their own M$ certificate - presumably for nefarious reasons. Hey, if it can happen to M$ it can happen to anyone. I don't *dare* allow things to be installed automatically, nor do I allow them to update automatically, etc....

However, too many people allowed exactly that in XP - and with XP's blatant unbridled access to the entire system, well, we see what happened with that. Botnet, anyone?

As for most people not liking change, well, idiots like Randall Kennedy who dislike change for the sake of disliking change can go talk a long walk off a short plank. Those who have legitimate beef with Vista for whatever reasons can rest assured that M$ has improved the OS tremendously in Windows 7 - but it is still only as safe as the user using it.

Now, as Jacee said, let's get back on topic.