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Windows 7: Refresh rate stucks at 60Hertz

22 Jan 2010   #11
RST101

Windows 7 Ultimate x64.
 
 

From wiki.....


Much of the discussion of refresh rate does not apply to the liquid crystal portion of an LCD monitor. This is because while a CRT monitor uses the same mechanism for both illumination and imaging, LCDs employ a separate backlight to illuminate the image being portrayed by the LCD's liquid crystal shutters. The shutters themselves do not have a "refresh rate" as such due to the fact that they always stay at whatever opacity they were last instructed to continuously, and do not become more or less transparent until instructed to produce a different opacity. Most of the TFT LCDs used in portable devices and computer monitors need a continuous refresh. The driving voltage determines the transmittance of the liquid crystal.
The closest thing liquid crystal shutters have to a refresh rate is their response time, while nearly all LCD backlights (most notably fluorescent cathodes, which commonly operate at ~200 Hz) have a separate figure known as flicker, which describes how many times a second the backlight pulses on and off. However they also have a refresh rate that governs how often a new image is received from the video card (often at 60 Hz).


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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22 Jan 2010   #12
Fumz

7 Ultimate x64
 
 

I can see Windows not recognizing an obscure monitor with an odd resolution, thereby creating this issue... but with an HP?

I noticed the OP installed the chipset driver, but didn't say whether he installed the HP graphics driver for the 9200?

32-bit version NVIDIA GeForce 9200M GS/9600M GT Video/Graphics Driver HP Pavilion dv5t-1000 CTO Entertainment Notebook PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)

64-bit version: NVIDIA GeForce 9200M GS/9600M GT Video/Graphics Driver HP Pavilion dv5t-1000 CTO Entertainment Notebook PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Jan 2010   #13
RougeCrown

windows 7
 
 

@fumz: i installed everything i could. And as the upgrade was one on my own (my laptop was bought before the win 7 upgrade period) i cant receive any help from HP. Moreover, when i bought the laptop, there was no driver cd as HP nowadays creates a restore partition in the computer instead.

I tried to check on another laptop today, it has a ATI 9200 mobile card, and it could change the refresh rate to 75hertz (running windows XP)

I think its a windows 7 thingy... most likely the EDID problem. BUt i dont know a workaround.

@Lange: the screen is not that fuzzy. but i notice that it causes eyestrains much more than last time when i was still running windows vista and win 7 RC. And i believe i fall into the last category. I have no problem with the resolution, only the refresh rate...
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23 Jan 2010   #14
Fumz

7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Hi RougeCrown,

Isn't this what you installed?
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RougeCrown View Post
That's the driver for their integrated video; not your card. I'd suggest giving the drivers I linked a shot, if you haven't yet, as they're for Windows 7, and more importantly, your card.

If I were you I'd be real cautious when it comes to forcing your screen to refresh at 75hz. If 75hz isn't supported, when you click apply the screen will go black and you'll find yourself having to remove the video drivers from safe mode. If it does support it, ok, but if not, be aware of the consequences.

The reason I doubt it's an EDID problem is that yours is an OEM, and not some obscure builder, but a rather large partner of MS. It would amaze me if anything you bought from HP wasn't "officially" supported by Windows 7.

I realize you upgraded on your own, and that HP would rather you have bought your copy from them, but they're still going to support the hardware. I'd ask them if that screen is capable of 75hz?

I'm typing all this cause I still don't quite get the eye strain issue you're talking about? Let's say you open a text document or read a web site on a crt. The reason you get eye strain is because that crt redraws that document, by Windows default, 60 times a second... 60hz. This is noticeable, and annoying; increasing to 75hz or 85hz solves this in the short term, but even with those high refresh rates, after a day of looking over documents your eyes hurt.

LCD's are different. If you were to open that same document on an LCD you don't get the eye strain because the LCD does not redraw the image 60 time a second, in fact, it doesn't redraw it at all until you change it... either by scrolling or looking at another document... so there's not that constant flicker that ends up hurting your eyes.

If you're getting that CRT like flicker, then perhaps your laptop needs servicing? Maybe there's something wrong with the backlighting? Is the problem sufficiently annoying to warrant taking it to HP and having them check it out?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Jan 2010   #15
Lange

Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Fumz View Post
I can see Windows not recognizing an obscure monitor with an odd resolution, thereby creating this issue... but with an HP?
Mine is IIyama HM903DT B (CRT). It's prefectly recognised by Windows because it shows up as IIyama HM903DT B as hardware device but as driver Windows uses the Generic PNP Monitor and uses it's own (limited) EDID file instead of the original monitors EDID. And it's this behaviour that causes problems. And not only with CRT's but with LCD's too and even with new ones.
My monitors specs go up to 1920x1440 (not that i use that) but Win7 limits this to 1600x1200 (went all the way up to 1920x1440 in XP). Secondly, 1152x864 is only available at 60Hz under Win7 but up to 120Hz under XP.
There is more. My screen has a 4/3 ratio. Just telll me why Win7 pushes me to use 1280x1024 every time when that has a 5/4 ratio and you get a teared image when using it?
And then the big question: Why would Win7 limit your monitor in the first place?
If there is anything that should work out of the box on every spec it mas made for on any OS then it's a monitor and a keyboard because if you don't have that, every OS is useless. Win7 let a lot people down on the monitor side. Those who are a bit skilled can get around it, those who don't...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Jan 2010   #16
RougeCrown

windows 7
 
 

@Fumz: i installed both that one and the NVIDIA card. I stated that in my first post. However, in the end only the NVIDIA driver can be installed. The intel chipset gives me an error, saying my hardware does not meet minimum requirements. This problem was not seen when i installed win 7 RC2. And last time when i used windows vista, my screen was at 75 hertz all time and there were options to choose from...

@Lange: I think it might have smthing to do with the aero features? as in if the screen is too big it screws up all those aero snaps and preview... etc. But its just my wild guess.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Jan 2010   #17
Lange

Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RougeCrown View Post
hi guys, thanks for giving me advices, but unfortunately, none of the advices works. I tried the nVIDIA mod, and yes, the option to create custom resolution exists. But then every time i change the refresh rate, it will turns back to 60 Hertz again.
If you create your own custom res (just use the one you use now) with a refresh of 75, does it show up like this in the nVidia Control Panel:
http://users.telenet.be/lange/images...Resolution.jpg
Be sure to tic: Allow modes not exposed by the display

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RougeCrown View Post
I think it might have smthing to do with the aero features? as in if the screen is too big it screws up all those aero snaps and preview... etc. But its just my wild guess.
I don't think so, at least here it didn't. I switched to basic themes and although it removed some of the fuzzyness i was experiencing when using Aero's, using a basic theme created other problems like when TrackIR software was running. So i dumped that and went for a tweaked (colours and fonts) Aero theme. But what happens if you don't use an Aero theme?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Jan 2010   #18
Fumz

7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lange View Post
Mine is IIyama HM903DT B (CRT). It's prefectly recognised by Windows because it shows up as IIyama HM903DT B as hardware device but as driver Windows uses the Generic PNP Monitor and uses it's own (limited) EDID file instead of the original monitors EDID. And it's this behaviour that causes problems. And not only with CRT's but with LCD's too and even with new ones.
My monitors specs go up to 1920x1440 (not that i use that) but Win7 limits this to 1600x1200 (went all the way up to 1920x1440 in XP). Secondly, 1152x864 is only available at 60Hz under Win7 but up to 120Hz under XP.
There is more. My screen has a 4/3 ratio. Just telll me why Win7 pushes me to use 1280x1024 every time when that has a 5/4 ratio and you get a teared image when using it?
And then the big question: Why would Win7 limit your monitor in the first place?
If there is anything that should work out of the box on every spec it mas made for on any OS then it's a monitor and a keyboard because if you don't have that, every OS is useless. Win7 let a lot people down on the monitor side. Those who are a bit skilled can get around it, those who don't...
I have no idea why you're having the problems you are? However, it's somewhat different than the OP's. Your's is a resolution issue; his, a refresh rate issue. Yes, I agree that there are certain things that should work right out of the box... but it doesn't always work out that way... and in that respect, 7 is no different than any other OS.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RougeCrown View Post
@Fumz: i installed both that one and the NVIDIA card. I stated that in my first post. However, in the end only the NVIDIA driver can be installed. The intel chipset gives me an error, saying my hardware does not meet minimum requirements. This problem was not seen when i installed win 7 RC2. And last time when i used windows vista, my screen was at 75 hertz all time and there were options to choose from...
Ok, I accept that your monitor can do 75hz... but my question stands about your eyes hurting? When was the last time you've been to an optometrist?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Jan 2010   #19
Lange

Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Fumz View Post
I have no idea why you're having the problems you are? However, it's somewhat different than the OP's. Your's is a resolution issue; his, a refresh rate issue. Yes, I agree that there are certain things that should work right out of the box... but it doesn't always work out that way... and in that respect, 7 is no different than any other OS.
If you read what i've written you should have noticed i had both, resolution and refreshrate. It's because of the latter that i answered.
Looking at the way you answer, i see there is quite some denial from your side on the problem. Just google a bit and have fun reading. You'll notice that both problems point to the same problem/solution in most of the cases.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Fumz View Post
When was the last time you've been to an optometrist?
A bit over the edge this last one don't you think? Even on an LCD you can clearly see the difference of a higher refreshrate even if the word "refreshrate" is not exactly correct when talking about an LCD.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Jan 2010   #20
Fumz

7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Lange,

I'm glad you found resolution to your problem, but honestly, why you keep going on and on about it here is beyond me? The OP did not complain about resolution issues, only that he can't change his refresh rate and that's causing eye strain. You get that, right?

It is perfectly OK to disagree with someone without resorting to attacking them personally, which is really weak... "denial", really, just because I look at the same problem from a different view as you? Wow...

I tend to approach issues from simplest to hardest... is the machine turned on?; do you have everything plugged in right?; do you have the right drivers installed?; a lot of guys do it that way. It's fine that you don't agree with that approach this time, but you get why others do, right? I mean that's not beyond you, right?

Since you're a smart guy and savvy pc user, you can surely figure out my logic; after all, I have spelled it out.

We fundamentally disagree on whether or not an LCD produces eye strain running at 60hz, and eye strain that will be resolved switching to 75hz. Get that? You offer your suggestions, I'll offer mine, we both let the OP read and make his own decisions without you tearing into others acting like a little brat because everyone doesn't see things your way.

Simple enough for you?
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 Refresh rate stucks at 60Hertz




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