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Windows 7: Win7 with dual screen BSOD w/ 9800M GTX card

24 Feb 2010   #1

Windows 7 64, Windows Vista 32, Windows XP 64
Win7 with dual screen BSOD w/ 9800M GTX card

I upgraded my 8700M GT 512 SLI card to 9800M GTX 2GB SLI in my M1730 system.. and from that moment I'm getting strange bsods after I installed recent drivers in windows 7 64bit (I have tried official 195.62 for notebooks and 196.34 desktop ones) enabled SLI and most importantly switched to dual screen as I use notebook lcd + external monitor.

Every time i start up windows with my external monitor pluged in the DVI on my notebook, windows will get bsod right after it starts up or a minute after it when I try to start ie8 for example.

I figured out that when I disconnect external monitor or switch to notebook lcd display only after booting to VGA mode the BSOD will not happen and everything is ok.. most strangely when I connect my external monitor after the windows starting is finished then the BSOD will not happen.

So to summarize I have to disconnect my external monitor when I reboot my computer and connect it after the system is up and running otherwise I get bsod.

I havent played with it for a long I only get the new card yesterday, but I get the same problem in vista 32bit windows, when I tried to install the new card under this os.

Does anybody experienced someting like this or knows what it might cause it?
I would appreciate any help or pointing to the solution....


My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Feb 2010   #2

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1

It helps everyone if you can post the bluescreen info, minidumps, or any error messages that you get when this is happening.
Does this behavior occur using the old video card? If not then I think it's very likely you have a defective video card.
Otherwise it might be a power issue. Are you trying to do this on battery power?
Also, are you completely uninstalling all the old video software and drivers before you install the new ones?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Feb 2010   #3

Windows 7 64, Windows Vista 32, Windows XP 64

ok here is the bluescreen info:
Win7 with dual screen BSOD w/ 9800M GTX card-bsod.jpg
it says:
*** STOP: 0x00000116 (0xFFFFFA80084A24E0,0xFFFFF88010355A20,0x0000000000000000,0x0000000000000002)

*** nvlddmkm.sys - Address FFFFF88010355A20 base at FFFFF88010243000, DateStamp 4b5986f9

minidump is attached:

and after the reboot I got this message from windows that there was a problem:

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.1.7600.
Locale ID: 2057
Additional information about the problem:
BCCode: 116
BCP1: FFFFFA8007A97010
BCP2: FFFFF8801033BA20
BCP3: 0000000000000000
BCP4: 0000000000000002
OS Version: 6_1_7600
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
Files that help describe the problem:

that xml file I couln't find, there is one but with different number, attached as well:

I use my notebook almost all the time plugged in in the mains,
the old card didn't have any of the problems I mentioned in my first post.
I didn't manually uninstall the previous drivers tho.. When I switched on the computer for the first time with the new card windows automaticaly installed 195.62 notebook drivers automaticaly, then I tried to install the 196.34 desktop ones that I had with the old card before. Then when the bluescreen problems occured I booted to safe mode and removed the 9800 cards from device manager, restarted and installed 196.34 again.

interesting thing is that I tried just now not to disconnect the external monitor but just leave it switched off untill the windows is ready, everything was fine, but as soon as I switched the external monitor ON the seconds after my mouse froze and bsod was followin another second after that. I have to disconnect it physically from the DVI connector, then connect it again and everything running ok afterwards. I have tried Avatar - the game, Bioshock 2 and Mass effect 2 with SLI on for an hour and the card looks like its running as it should with no problems and a lot better framerate than the previous card.

I made a video:

My System SpecsSystem Spec

25 Feb 2010   #4

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1

Yes, that is a typical TDR crash. I will post my diagnostics checklist below (taken mostly from my notes when fixing my own TDR issue). You should take a look and see if there are any other possible causes but from your descriptions your issue screams defective video card.
One of the first cheap and easy diagnostics you should perform is reinstalling your video drivers cleanly.
Go to Control Panel > Programs > Uninstall a Program and remove the PhysX and 3D apps first then the driver (the control panel will go with the driver). Before rebooting go to C:\nVidia and delete or move the folder (otherwise Windows will find and install the same driver). You will then reboot and Windows will install it's generic driver and you will be asked to reboot again. You need to do this to install the nVidia drivers. After you get to the desktop you can then install the most current nVidia package. You would do this without the second monitor attached of course.
Some people insist that you should clean everything driver related from Safe Mode with a program like DriverSweeper during this process. I have had bad experiences doing this so I tend to avoid it. See if a clean driver installation fixes anything.

The following is geared toward desktop diagnosis but much applies to laptops also:
How to diagnose TDR errors:
"Display driver xxxxx stopped responding and was recovered"

Timeout Detection & Recovery (TDR) = "Display Driver Stopped Responding and was Recovered" is a useful feature that started in Vista and is also in W7 that allows the OS to try and recover from a video timeout so that the system does not crash to a bluescreen. Symptoms included a screen flash with the TDR message appearing one or more times or the screen blinking out to black. If the system cannot recover it will crash (Stop Error 116 typical). The issue is that the video card is not responding as expected. The solution is in the: why?

There is no one-size-fits-all solution to TDR errors. But the problem is usually found in the local environment (your computer). Finding the cause is a matter of checking every possible cause and uncovering the culprit through a simple process of elimination. By methodically running down a checklist of diagnostic procedures you should be able to find the cause and can correct it.

There are numerous reports of hardware solutions to TDR's. The most common are:
  • Poor Cooling
  • Problems with the power supply
  • Overclocking Issues
  • Bad System memory or incorrect memory timings
  • Defective PC Components

The order you do the diagnostics is not all that important. My personal strategy is to do the cheap & easy stuff first, the cheap & harder stuff next, and then the stuff that costs last. But whatever order you do it in you need to check or confirm the following:

Poorly written software and games will cause TDRs. But if this were the case it would affect lots of people, not just a few. Check the game's website & forums for patches and tips.
See if other people in the forums are having the same problem and if they were able to solve it and how.
You could also be asking too much of your video card. Check to see if your video card is tested and recommended for the game/program. Test the game at reduced settings.

It helps if you can isolate the actions that trigger the TDR. Most often it will be an application using 3D graphics. But if the incidents occur constantly it would point more towards defective hardware. If it happens more specifically (just when running Game X) it points towards overheating, settings, software, or driver issues.

You need to eliminate the possibility that your computer has a global problem. You can use a program like Prime95 to stress test your system. Free Software - GIMPS
You can run the "Stress Test" for a few hours or overnight. This will not tell you what the problem is, but it is helpful to uncover any issues your system has with instability and cooling.

Running a video intensive game for hours can generate some serious heat and overheating will cause video errors. You can check your temps by looking at your BIOS readings or use a free program like Speedfan SpeedFan - Access temperature sensor in your computer .
A real easy test is to just pull the side panel(s) off your case and see if the problem goes away or gets better. If it does then the issue is definitely overheating. If you are overheating you need to look at installing some cooling upgrades. You want to look at ventilating the case (more or bigger fans), Upgrade your case to a larger gaming case (lots of fans, water-cooling), etc.
There are free utilities like BurninTest PassMark BurnInTest software - PC Reliability and Load Testing that you can use to test your system's cooling capability. Caution is recommended using these types of programs.

Bad drivers happen and they can get corrupted. Before installing or reinstalling any video drivers first completely uninstall all video software and the drivers. (Some people say to run a cleaner program from safe mode, some say this is unnecessary). Never rely on the driver package to overwrite the old drivers.
After uninstalling the old drivers and rebooting Windows 7 will install it's own WDDM 1.1 driver. Check for the video problem while using the generic Windows driver.
You can then install the latest drivers for your card (or try older drivers).
See This Tutorial: Installing and updating drivers in 7

Look in Device Manager and make sure there are no problem devices (yellow ! icon). Correct these by loading the correct drivers or disable the problem device and see if the video problem goes away.

Reseat video card and memory modules. Make sure the contacts are clean. Check all the electrical connections.

In BIOS, check the listed voltages against the manufacturer recommended specs. Reset the voltages to factory defaults and see if the video problems disappear.

Memory errors can cause video problems. Run a program like Memtest86+ for at least 3 passes to see if there are any memory errors. Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool

Overclocking can be a trial and error process. The clocks you set or change for CPU, Memory, or GPU could be unstable. Eliminate this as a possibility by resetting the clocks to their defaults to see if that clears the video problems.

Check for and install an updated BIOS, particularly if it says the newer BIOS corrects memory errors or bug fixes. You could also try loading the BIOS defaults.
While you are there, check the motherboard manufacturers forums to see if others are having issues with the same board.

You need to know that your power supply is delivering sufficient power. Power supply problems are the most common cause of video problems, especially using high end cards.
Check the power supply's amperage ratings. Be sure it has the ample amperage for your video card and the rest of the system.
Test the supply with multimeter to measure for a steady 12v to the card's power connectors. (The only true way to test a power supply would be to use the very expensive diagnostic equipment used in labs). But for us regular folks: I tested my power supply by hooking up my multimeter to the PCI-E connectors that I was using to power my video card (I used a spare pair from the power supply to run the card while I was testing). I then observed the meter while I used the computer, first watching the voltage, then the amps, to see if there was any drop-off or erratic behavior while booting or using the computer. My readings were rock solid. So I declared my power supply good.
Otherwise you need to replace the supply to eliminate this possibility. Or borrow one from another computer.

I suspect that a video card must perform flawlessly to operate in a Windows 7 environment and run the most recent games. If you tried all the above diagnostics and no problems were found then that leaves you with only one possibility: a defective video card. Some brands have the problem more consistently than others. You could check their forums for clues.
You could try your card in another computer running W7 to see if the problem goes along with the card.
You could try a different card in your computer. I bought an inexpensive card to use. My TDR's disappeared using a "lesser" card. Or borrow a card from another computer.
Otherwise RMA or replace the card.

TDR complaints have come from PC owners running virtually every PC configuration. They occur regardless of which video engine, manufacturer, driver, or system used. They are too numerous to write off as a random problem, but at the same time if people are getting their systems to run correctly using the same hardware and software that you are then it follows that your problem must be solvable.

More Info Here:
Timeout Detection and Recovery of GPUs through WDDM
NVIDIA Statement on TDR Errors - NVIDIA Forums
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Feb 2010   #5

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1

I wanted to add something else that I have been reading about and might affect your situation:

Eliminate Power Management settings as a possible cause, especially if you are working with a laptop. These settings could be particularly important if the issue is in playing games.
Go to Control Panel > Hardware & Sound > Power Options. Under "Select a Power Plan" you will find that "Balanced" is the default setting.
At the bottom you will see a Down arrow next to "Show Additional Plans". Click that and select "High Performance". See if the TDR issue is affected.
Alternately, you can click "Change Plan Settings" next to the "Balanced" plan and change the setting to "Never" put the computer to sleep (This is the default on a desktop) and/or change when the display is turned off as a test.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Feb 2010   #6

Windows 7 64, Windows Vista 32, Windows XP 64

Hello again,
thanks for all the suggestion TVeblen, I have now fixed my original bsod booting problem with my external monitor but unfortunately a new problem which do not allow me to install graphics drivers arrised.

The first thing I've tried like you said was the clean driver install and it did help! (I was worried that it will be something with the card)
Disconnected my external monitor and uninstalled all the nvidia stuff like nTune, physx, and other nvidia soft/demos/etc then the display drivers and deleted the folder with the unpacked installation files too. Restared twice and then I installed the latest nvidia official notebook drivers (195.62 at the moment).
When everthing was installed the first thing i did before enabling the SLI was to try and connect my external monitor and setup my dual screens, then restarted and bingo! no bsod... so far so good.. The next I tried to enable the SLI.. first with one screen, then connected external one and restarted, no bsod happened from that time! these drivers even gave me about 200 points more in 3dmark06 than the laptopvideo2go ones.

yet still I wanted to try these drivers as well as I was using the custom lv2g drivers with modified inf file 196.21 and 196.34, but here is where my new problem appeared and that I simply couldn't install any of these drivers (clean install or upgrade from 195.62) it simply run the setup very very quickly like normal and than it says: "the system has not been modified..." and nothing was installed, when doing upgrade install i was left with the previous version intact and when trying to install from clean i was left with the same generic driver.

I spent last about 2-3 hours browsing the interwebs to find a solution for the new mysterious "the system has not been modified" problem but did not solve it yet. I have found a lot of people has these problems, even quite a lot possible solutions that various people tried and worked for them to ranging from changing permissions in registry to Nvidia folders to removing physx*.exe installer from unpacked drivers or killing the physx* process in taskmanager during install, or enabling the "InstallDriver Table Manager" service (for xp people) or even trying/creating the new administrator user profile and tried to install it from there.. there was to my surprise a lot of solutions which worked for different people with this message. but none of these that I tried worked for me.

So for now I just returned back to official nvidia notebook drivers. I would guess I removed something somewhere when I was uninstalling the old drivers which I should not.. as I usually don't uninstall the old drivers when installing the new ones until I encounter a problem. Also I have never seen/heard/happened about this issue before.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Feb 2010   #7

Windows 7 64, Windows Vista 32, Windows XP 64

btw about that windows power management, I already had the "High Performance" one selected as I mostly use the system as a desktop replacement and I couldn't stand the monitor going dim/blank and computer to sleep after a few minutes of idling... I adjusted those setting some time ago.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Feb 2010   #8

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1

Glad you solved your initial problem. My guess is that the (I'm assuming) BETA drivers are not ready for some component of your configuration and therefore will not install. You would need to stick to the WHQL drivers until the new ones are ready for prime time.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Mar 2010   #9

Windows 7 64, Windows Vista 32, Windows XP 64

Yes, I think they are beta drivers for desktop cards, so they should not run on graphics card for notebooks.
But with that custom .inf file from laptopvideo2go website it's possible to install them on notebooks too, and with all that said I managed to install them without any problem when I first swapped my cards and started this thread a few days ago. I was running my system with these drivers :) I also used these kind of drivers all the time with my old 8700M GT card without any problems.

So I guess this is not quite normal error I'm getting now and something I did to resolve my monitor problem must caused this.

Usually it says that the setup didn't find a compatible hardware and will interupt at the beggining of the installation if I try and install something thats not for my card. This time the setup runs through like normal just a lot faster without any flashing and the full message at the end is: "The system has not been modified. To install this program at a later time, run the installation again."

If anybody knows what could cause this error or knows any possible solution please let me know... I have tried quite a few of them but with no success so far.

It's not a big problem for now, but it may cause an issue later when new drivers will be released and I won't be able to install them.
My System SpecsSystem Spec

 Win7 with dual screen BSOD w/ 9800M GTX card

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