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Windows 7: Am I doing something Wrong?

03 Aug 2010   #31
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Fumz View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
Fumz,
On my UPS there is a surge protected side that operates with the power to the UPS turned on or off. I thought that was unusual. The battery/surge suppressors appear to work only when I turn the UPS on.
glennc
I'd double check that if I were you. I'm not aware of any surge protector that's able to protect you if it's off.

Do you have a link I can look at to some documentation that makes that claim?
Hello Fumz,
I don't think I made myself clear enough. It is my impression that a surge suppressor on/off switch just cuts line voltage to the electronics and the outlets on the strip.
It partially essentially unplugs the hot output line. When on, it connect the hot line to the surge Protector circuit and the outlets.
glennc


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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03 Aug 2010   #32
Fumz

7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
Hello Fumz,
I don't think I made myself clear enough. It is my impression that a surge suppressor on/off switch just cuts line voltage to the electronics and the outlets on the strip.
It partially essentially unplugs the hot output line. When on, it connect the hot line to the surge Protector circuit and the outlets.
glennc
Do you have two on/off buttons on your unit? One for the surge suppression side and one for the voltage regulation/battery backup side? If you don't, then the one button powers the entire device... again, surge suppression isn't something you can turn on and off independently.

While it's true that your average $5.00 powerstrip's on/off button cuts the voltage, that's still a separate function from actual surge suppression.

In order for a surge suppressor to suppress surges (wow, that's a mouthful) it's got to be powered on. There are semiconductors inside the unit which decide when a surge is a surge and when to divert voltage. If they're not powered on, they can't operate.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Aug 2010   #33
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Hey Fumz,
Now we're getting to a level that I can understand. On my APC UPS the battery/surge protected side has an on/off switch. With the switch in the off position the UPS still applies line voltage to the surge suppressor only outlets. Thus I was previously leaving the strip plugged into the suppressor only outlet and turning it on and off with it's own on/off button. So the question still remains is that a definite bad situation if the output wattage is adhered to on the surge strip, thus not overloading the UPS. Also if I put a surge strip on the battery/surge outlets within wattage specifications to give it an on/off capability and leave the UPS on. I did find out my UPS is supposed to charge as long as it is plugged into the line voltage, regardless of it's own on/off switch.
I still am muddling it over in my mind, why or why not.
glennc
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

03 Aug 2010   #34
Fumz

7 Ultimate x64
 
 

I'm getting a bit lost in language.

Both sides are surge protected. One side has battery backup and voltage regulation, the other, surge only... but, I'm not real clear on what the latest question is, lol. It's late and I was up early this am. Excuse my fuzzyness.

If it's about the beeping, then we'll need to know what unit you have? Do you have 550 VA or 550 watts? If you have the 550 VA model, then you only have a 330 watt unit and, again, your beeping may be due to all the devices you've got plugged in.

What do you have plugged in, and to where? For example, I've got my machine, monitor, modem and router in the battery backup side... cell phone charger and speaker/bass amp into the surge only side.

If it's about what secondary surge protectors you can plug in, then we'll need to refer to the product's documentation to see what they say about it. A link to the unit would be real helpful.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Aug 2010   #35
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Hey Fumz,
Me too. It is a 550 VA which says 330 Watts. The surge only protected outlets I had another surge protector strip to consolidate all my extra junk. This side does not power down with the UPS's on off button, so I used the on/off button on the extra surge protector strip to power down the whatnot. The amps pulled through the extra strip with its devices I believe is in the output range of the UPS's surge protected only outlets.
I was considering putting a surge protected strip off the battery backed/surge suppressed side of the UPS so to consolidate the monitor/computer/DSL modem and the Router, which I have NOT done yet. I also took the second surge suppressor off the UPS and plugged it directly into an AC outlet.
The problem I'm seeing according to the APC Status Indicators is when I power it up, its power on light blinks, indicating that the battery is supplying power for maybe 10 seconds as the UPS transfers back to the power on state at which time the power light stays on steady. Since I turned off all the devices into the battery/surge suppressed outlets on the UPS, I am lost as to why it is supplying battery power on power up.
I hope that is a little clearer. Thanks
glennc
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Aug 2010   #36
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
The problem I'm seeing according to the APC Status Indicators is when I power it up, its power on light blinks, indicating that the battery is supplying power for maybe 10 seconds as the UPS transfers back to the power on state at which time the power light stays on steady. Since I turned off all the devices into the battery/surge suppressed outlets on the UPS, I am lost as to why it is supplying battery power on power up.
I hope that is a little clearer. Thanks
glennc
Glennc: This is not an issue. When you first turn on the UPS....it begins to pull power from the mains. At this point, it's unsure of the safety of the voltage and such on the line...so it transfers to battery power to regulate the power to any devices which are connected and attached. Once the initial power up is complete and voltage is consistent and maintained, the device switches back to running live off the mains and then regulates the power going to your connected devices.

I've got some bigger rack mount APC UPS's at my office. I've got an APC SmartUps 5000 and a 2200 at work and both do the exact same thing you mention about when you first turn them on. You have nothing to worry about.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Aug 2010   #37
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
The problem I'm seeing according to the APC Status Indicators is when I power it up, its power on light blinks, indicating that the battery is supplying power for maybe 10 seconds as the UPS transfers back to the power on state at which time the power light stays on steady. Since I turned off all the devices into the battery/surge suppressed outlets on the UPS, I am lost as to why it is supplying battery power on power up.
I hope that is a little clearer. Thanks
glennc
Glennc: This is not an issue. When you first turn on the UPS....it begins to pull power from the mains. At this point, it's unsure of the safety of the voltage and such on the line...so it transfers to battery power to regulate the power to any devices which are connected and attached. Once the initial power up is complete and voltage is consistent and maintained, the device switches back to running live off the mains and then regulates the power going to your connected devices.

I've got some bigger rack mount APC UPS's at my office. I've got an APC SmartUps 5000 and a 2200 at work and both do the exact same thing you mention about when you first turn them on. You have nothing to worry about.
Much relief so many thanks to you and your experience. Thanks pparks1!! They don't show up as incidents. Very pleased to hear this is normal. Mille Grazie. A thousand thanks.
As well as to all who have contributed!
glennc
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Aug 2010   #38
westom

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
Much relief so many thanks to you and your experience. Thanks pparks1!!
If correct, a UPS that takes that long to verify line stability could not switch to batteries in 10 milliseconds. Within milliseconds, a UPS must know if power is good or bad. Because a UPS must make the same decision every minute of the day - in milliseconds. A UPS must know immediately if power is stable or not. It cannot take ten seconds to decide.


What happens during power on? UPS has no idea what its battery state is. A battery can only be verified after at least ten seconds of load. So that is what the UPS is doing. Loading the battery for 10 seconds. Then learning if the battery does anything. Not if the battery is good. A ten second test can only discover a battery at least marginal.

Noted before: a UPS battery has a 3 year life expectancy. That ten second test is insufficient to confirm sufficient battery power. Three plus years from now, a seriously degraded battery will still pass the test even though it can only power a computer for a few seconds . Test is simply a 'fast as possible' test. To learn if a battery stores any electricity.

Note the author. A person who keeps warning you that a majority on this subject are so often wrong. A majority only learn from advertising - not from designing stuff.

Those 'surge protected' outlets are nothing more than a power strip protector (without a power switch). With near zero joules. Just enough joules to claim 'surge protection' in sales brochures. Woefully too few joules to do protection. Those outlets are simply a power strip embedded inside the UPS box. Nothing more.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Aug 2010   #39
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
I shut it down at night and when the box is off and the monitor show it's off, then I turn the UPS off.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Turning it off doesn't protect you from electrical surges unless you unplug from the outlet… and if you're going to do that... why have a UPS, or surge protector in the first place.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
If you turn the surge suppressor off, doesn't that disconnect the line voltage from the surge protection circuits and the outlet strip? I hear but I readily confused.
My question is why??? Would you want to turn it off??? This defeats the purpose of having one in the first place!

Here's the other side of the coin.... If the surge protector/UPS is STILL plugged into the outlet, and even though it's turned off, and you have a huge electrical surge, say lightning strike, are the items connected to the surge protector still protected? I think not! But….that would depend on the rating of the UPS/Surge Protector.

My point... even though the surge protector/UPS is "turned off", it STILL doesn't mean you're protected from an electrical surge if it's STILL plugged into the outlet, thus turning it off it useless. You have more protection leaving it on!!!

Have a look at these….
HowStuffWorks "Surge Protector Ratings"
How UPS Devices Work - Types of uninterruptible power sources - Softpedia

Good luck.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Aug 2010   #40
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Hello westom,
What an excellent explanation for the uninitiated. I appreciate it, very much. So I need to keep in mind when three years are up. Do you know of any software that would test the battery beyond what is included in the APC software. I don't have any tests at all.
Thanks again!
glennc
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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