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Windows 7: Just looking before I leap...new PC final thoughts.

05 Apr 2011   #31
GARoss

Windows 7 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
With a very fast system like you are planning, I would definately consider getting a SSD. Possibly the single best performance upgrade/choice available today.
It will make that system zing and put a smile on your face

Good luck and let us know your final decisions.
Agreeded, but which one? It seems they have advanced read/write speeds over the last few years & there are more brands in the mix which confuses things, or me at least.

I could invest another $100-200 towards SSD if the transition isn't too difficult as I have an retail upgrade Windows 7 disc. I'm not concerned over my installed software but the potential upgrade issue with Microsoft as it would be a clean install. I know this seems exaggerated to those who have lots of experience but this has been a large concern to me. My guess it will wind up being a call to MS to re-register.

So, any SSD recommendations in the $100-200 range? My current C: is 75Gb. That size big enough for a new C: ? The other HDDs are both 300Gb.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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05 Apr 2011   #32
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

Default good brands would be Intel, OCZ, and Crucial. Maybe another 1 or 2?

How much of that 75 gb you mention is occupied?? I'd think an 80 GB SSD would be enough for most people, with the understanding it won't have anything on it but Windows and programs. All data on the spinning drives.

Not sure why you are concerned with reinstalling Windows with your retail upgrade disk. It's a retail disk and not tied to any particular motherboard or hard drive. MS acknowledges people upgrade from time to time and at most you would have to re-activate. I've rebuilt a half dozen times in the last 10 years, changing major components each time, and never had to call MS.

Re SSDs: they are all noticeably faster than any HDD. I wouldn't get caught up in write speeds/read speeds. I'd decide if I wanted an SSD at all. If the answer is yes, then stick with a known good brand in your appropriate size range that has reasonably good reviews. Some will do better on writes, some will do better on reads, etc. Don't let that overwhelm you. The better question is do you want to spend the circa 150 at all for the sake of faster booting and faster app loading (the primary benefits).

Does it matter to you that you could be reading a Word doc in 1 second from an SSD rather than in 1.5 seconds from an HDD? Does it matter that you can boot in 40 seconds from an SSD rather than 65 from an HDD, etc. Faster virus scans. No more defragging. To the extent that money matters little, it's no contest, but only you can judge your budget priorities. Maybe you'd get more pleasure ultimately from a monitor upgrade? Only you know.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Apr 2011   #33
GARoss

Windows 7 64-bit
 
 

[QUOTE=ignatzatsonic;1329835]
How much of that 75 gb you mention is occupied?? I'd think an 80 GB SSD would be enough for most people, with the understanding it won't have anything on it but Windows and programs. All data on the spinning drives.
[QUOTE]

Thanks. 55-60Gb. I've mentioned before that I work with video. 1 hr of DV, HDV or AVCHD = 13Gb of data. AVCHD is highly compressed & takes a long time to render. I'm hoping SSD will improve on that.

I've listed 2 SSDs that are 120Gb which would allow some rendering room without sending to an older HDD. Even so, there would be times data from the older HDDs would be used in the rendering process. I like the OCZ. Any special connections needed or is it much the same as SATA?

Newegg.com - OCZ Agility 2 OCZSSD2-2AGTE120G 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Newegg.com - Corsair Force CSSD-F120GB2-BRKT 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

BTW - I have had to call MS before when installing XP with bootcamp an iMac. I had to reassure MS that the old PC was no longer in use. It wasn't a big deal but it did happen. I'm sure everything will be OK.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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05 Apr 2011   #34
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

Ok. With 60 occupied, 120 is probably the smallest you would want to get.

I don't own an SSD and am not a guru, although I am trying to get knowledgeable as I will be buying one myself within a year or so.

I know the choice of controller is important. Both of those you list use a Sandforce controller and should have similar performance. That controller had a good rep the last I heard.

Read the New Egg reviews. Don't take them too seriously, but they should provide some insight.

I have heard some discussion on 34 nand versus (I think the newer) 25 nand and which is preferable. I think some say that 34 nand has some advantages?

Prices of SSDs were sort of stalled for a while, but lately I've seen more examples of them selling for less than $2 per gig, which is a good sign. Maybe you could wait 6 months and save $50, but who knows?

If SSD is your last stumbling block, you might start a new thread to attract more comments, but if you are buying today you may not get a lot of input in time.

I'm sure Dave 76 can provide more insight.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Apr 2011   #35
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

I really don't want to get into a SSD debate but, there is more to them than faster boot time and app loading time.
My OS loads, from pushing the power button to useable desktop in 18 seconds, which is a side benifit.
The MS welcome screen is a breif flash, can't read the 'Welcome'. I turned off the boot GUI light swirl because it never had time to finish.

The main advantage is access time, everything runs faster.
All the functions in the OS and other apps run much quicker.

You have to experience it first hand to see all the benifits, can you do the same things with a conventional hard drive, yes.
Most people that get a SSD, installed correctly, are amazed at the difference. There is never a question of the cost, only 'Why didn't I get one of these sooner'.

Like all components, it's a personal choice.


Video rendering will be much faster with a SSD.

Both SSDs you have linked are good choices.
OCZ and other SandForce controller SSDs use compression to speed up the writes and therefore the reads. This is the SandForce controllers advantage.
They do have slower speeds when you use compressed data, like video files.
The posted speeds for these are for compressable data and when they are benchmarked with non-compressable data the are much slower.

Don't be taken in by the marketing ploy of publishing fast sequential read/write times, though a little more important for video editing, OS and apps use random reads/writes much more than anything else.

With the latest released SSDs, the Read/Write speeds are into the SATA 6Gb/s range which your P67A chipset has so I would go for the Crucial C300 (34nm nand), Corsair P3 (25nm nand) or Intel 510 (34nm nand).


Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1CCA 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
128GB, SATA III
Sequential Access - Read: up to 355MB/s
Sequential Access - Write: up to 140MB/s
At $270 it's a bit pricey.


Corsair Performance 3 Series CSSD-P3128GB2-BRKT 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
128GB, SATA III
Read up to 410 MB/s and Write up to 210MB/s
At $315 this is pricey also.


Then there's the Intel 34nm Nand, this is good for sequential reads and writes, SATA 6Gb/s.
Intel 510 Series (Elm Crest) SSDSC2MH120A2K5 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
120GB, SATA III
Sequential Access - Read Up to 450 MB/s (SATA 6Gb/s); 265 MB/s (SATA 3Gb/s) Sequential Access - Write Up to 210 MB/s (SATA 6Gb/s); 200 MB/s (SATA 3Gb/s)
Also pricey at $285.

All three of these use the Marvell controller, which doesn't use compression.


If you want to go with SATA 3Gb/s, which are still very fast. There are more to choose from at lower prices.
These are good solid fast drives, with a bit lower read/write numbers.
IMHO, at this upper range of speeds, you will be happy with a SATA 3 Gb/s SSD.

Intel is known for reliability and very low failure/return rate.
Intel 320 Series SSDSA2CW120G3K5 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
These are the new 24nm drives, $240

Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH120G2K5 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
This is the previos model, 34nm, $230

Both are good choices.


Which brings us to the 34 nm vs 25 nm Nand issues.
There had been a lot of discussion on the possibility of the 25nm nand having a shorter life span.
The latest consensus is it will likely be pretty much the same as 34nm nand.
Only time will tell.

You will have no problem re-installing the retail upgrade Windows 7.
At the worst you will have to call MS again.

Sorry for the long post, and all the editing.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Apr 2011   #36
GARoss

Windows 7 64-bit
 
 

All I can say is WOW! If this were one of those Mac Pro's my son is always shouting about the price would be 3x more!

I've attached a screen capture of my proposed PC from Newegg. (Ignatzatsonic, note I didn't forget your suggested CPU fan this time.) I thik I've covered all the bases, thanks to everyone here at 7 Forums! The SSD kicks the price up but I decided to go for it. I'm not all that keen on extended warranties but willing to hear if anyone thinks differently. I intend to order today so let the comments begin!


Attached Thumbnails
Just looking before I leap...new PC final thoughts.-new-pc.jpg  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Apr 2011   #37
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

Newegg.com - Rosewill RTK-015 15 Piece Standard Computer Tool Kit

The above tool kit is only 10 rather than 20 for the one you chose; might save you a bit.

No thermal paste? The Shuriken includes a batch and I think the CPU does too, so you don't really need to order any, at least at this time.

Re Big Shuriken: I just got mine yesterday but have not installed it. Will be getting my new motherboard within a few days and hope to have it installed by the weekend.

The only caveat on it is this: it is targeted at those who want silence as opposed to max cooling effect. It cools better than the stock cooler, but does so MUCH more quietly.

If you will be a high level overclocker, it MAY not cool well enough for you. In which case you should get another more traditional heatsink that makes no pretense about being quiet. The standard cheap choice for such a heatsink would be the Cooler Master Hyper 212. A good sink that can accommodate higher overclocks than the Shuriken, but it is not as quiet. So, its a tradeoff.

On second thought: the Shuriken fan can be replaced by ANY 120mm fan in about 1 minute. So, if it doesn't cool well enough, you can simply replace the low speed fan with a higher speed fan.

So I doubt if you would be forced to a Hyper 212 in any case.

Other than that, looks like you are good to go.

Last consideration might be a couple of case fans. I assume the Solo has 2 and they may be fine. If they are too noisy, you can always order replacements later.

No thumbscrews for the case or does the Solo already have them?

Pray the quality control gods smile on you and you have no DOA issues.

Take your time on assembly.

Re extended warranties: statistically, they are a bad deal. But if your number comes up, they are a good deal. I'd just roll the dice and turn them down, particularly considering New Egg's good RMA policy.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Apr 2011   #38
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Good choices.

Agree with ignatzatsonic on the warranties.

Get some Artic Silver 5 thermal paste, for between the CPU and cooler.

Are you going to get a graphics card?

CD/DVD drive?

The Crucial C300 SSD is a good fast drive, will be good for video editing.
AS SSD benchmark uses non-compressable data and this drive scores high.
Check this listing of different SSDs: AS SSD Benchmark thread
The orange background is RAID drives, scroll down to the yellow background and you can see the all the Crucial C300 drives at the top of the single drive list.

When you install Win7 on the SSD, don't do anything to the drive, take it out of the box, mount it in the case, plug in the cables, put the Win7 disk in the DVD drive.
When Win7 asks where to install, just point it at the SSD.

Win7 will align the SSD, which is very important, and make most of the neccessary SSD tweaks needed during the install.
It is very good at this.

Good luck and let us know if you have any questions.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Apr 2011   #39
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

Did you say no to the anti-static wrist strap?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Apr 2011   #40
GeneO

Windows 10 Pro. EFI boot partition, full EFI boot
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GARoss View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
With a very fast system like you are planning, I would definately consider getting a SSD. Possibly the single best performance upgrade/choice available today.
It will make that system zing and put a smile on your face

Good luck and let us know your final decisions.
Agreeded, but which one? It seems they have advanced read/write speeds over the last few years & there are more brands in the mix which confuses things, or me at least.

I could invest another $100-200 towards SSD if the transition isn't too difficult as I have an retail upgrade Windows 7 disc. I'm not concerned over my installed software but the potential upgrade issue with Microsoft as it would be a clean install. I know this seems exaggerated to those who have lots of experience but this has been a large concern to me. My guess it will wind up being a call to MS to re-register.

So, any SSD recommendations in the $100-200 range? My current C: is 75Gb. That size big enough for a new C: ? The other HDDs are both 300Gb.
I am looking to buy an Intel 510 sometime in the future. Great reads and write speeds and proven 34nm technology. They are a bit pricey however - around $300 for a 120 GB drive.

Be aware of the OCZ agility 2 when looking at published benchmarks. They changed form 34nm to 25nm without changing the model number and the write performance dropped and the actual capacity a little too. Probably most of the non-OCZ benchmarks online were made with the the 34nm versions.
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 Just looking before I leap...new PC final thoughts.




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