looking for better monitors

DeaconFrost said:

Thornton said:

i am going to try and step back, cuz despite my efforts, your not getting it, but i need to tell you, that is a bad analogy. i would pay extra for 20mph more, granted not on a car that cheap, more likely 180mph-200mph, believe me i would notice the difference!

I'm not getting it? That example works perfectly. If the speed limit is 65 mph on a highway around here, and I drive at 75 mph....there's no way the upper limit of their speed capabilities come into play. It's a perfectly legit example, and one used by trade mags and review sites quite often. If you would be a person who'd pay extra for a that feature, knowing full well you'd never drive anywhere near that speed, then you have some major money management issues.

If you want to sit there and claim you have mutant, superhuman vision capabilities, then so be it. Spend the extra money. I was trying to explain something to you to save you some cash...something that 99% of the members on this board would appreciate. (And do, by evidence of the rep I've gotten from my comments here). However, if you want to fall into the very small, but increasing percentage of people asking for help than copping a 'tude with those willing to respond...then all I have to say is good luck to you. Just remember going forward...when you ask for help...you might not always like the answers you get back..but that doesn't make people wrong, or give you a position to say "someone just doesn't get it".

not to say im this way in real life, but to put this in perspective, lets say i dont care what the speed limit is, i just wanna go fast, like i said, i can still pick out frames from a 60fps video like its running at 10 ok, these statistics are made for the average person, not the average gamer, the average FPS gamer LEARNS to see faster so they can pick out enemies FASTER, scope FSATER, move FASTER, in turn, all else seems SLOWER

to add also im not trying t osay you are wrong, and i know you have a good reputation, but you dont get that things arent created without a purpose, i happen to know atleast 2 purposes, and have a 3d purpose for it. i will stand my ground when i say that i know what i know from experience, just as i believe you got to where you are now the same way. and i know what applys to me does not apply to everybody, but you cant make this assumption without a better understanding of ahow gamers work. ask any shooter who has played Unreal Tournament 2k3/2k4 and is GOOD on multiplayer, and they will tell you all else seems to SLOW DOWN! almost permanently, so many prefer CRT or 70-120hz monitors.

iTRiP said:

This will in turn provide smoother picture and lees strain on the human eyes.

Your post is absolutely correct...if we were still talking about CRT monitors. Now that everyone is using LCDs, eye strain doesn't exist to the extent it once was. For example, all growing up, I could never play games on a computer monitor for more than 10-20 minutes, without developing serious migraines. Once LCDs came out, I can go for hours without a problem....or used to when I had something called free time.

LCDs have completely changed the way people have compared and rated monitors. When reviewing gaming systems and/or video cards, most reputable places will even tell you that once you push above 60 fps, you are kind of into the "moot point" area because the human eye can't distinguish it. One point I don't fully agree with is that they feel anything over 30, in many case, is just fine. However, DVD movies are at 29.92 fps, and yet no one complains about them being choppy or not smooth...so maybe the reviewers are on to something.

The anology of the car is used often (and yes relevant) because people tend to get hung up on numbers rather than the end results. For example, look at how many people worry about memory timings. If your memory is running at CAS 8 instead of CAS 9...the end result isn't going to be any real measurable difference in performance...especially if all else is equal. I used to be one of those people, fully invested in the enthusiast crowd to eek out every little bit of performance. However, once I got old and had real responsibilities, I started caring more about end results. Will it matter...is the question I ask before any new hardware purchase.

Thornton said:

but you cant make this assumption without a better understanding of ahow gamers work. ask any shooter who has played Unreal Tournament 2k3/2k4 and is GOOD on multiplayer, and they will tell you all else seems to SLOW DOWN!

Do you really think that's due to eyesight? C'mon. I'm really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and have a normal debate, but the more wild explanations you come up with, the harder it is becoming. Games slow down because the player gets better...at the game. The anticipation of moves and events gets better...that's a natural function of the brain, not the eyeball.

I played basketball very competitively until my college graduation. I played in high school in a league that featured two future NBA superstars. I played on AAU teams with many guys who earned DI scholarships and later played in the NBA as well. I played in college at a school that is awaiting a possible NCAA Tourney berth right now. As you learn the game and improve in your skills of said game, it seems to slow down because your brain isn't overwhelmed as much. When I separated myself as a good player....the game slowed down to me. I could see plays unfolding ahead of time...I knew where my teammates would be, and I learned to better anticipate how a defender would play me. I relied more on instinct than reaction.

I've been in competitive gaming tournaments and LAN parties in my younger days. I've heard real gamers discuss the very same things...but it has nothing to do with eyes. Look at someone new to a game...they struggle with the controls. That takes away brain power devoted to the game itself. Players more comfortable with the controls, and those with more skills, could relax more and just focus on the game itself and their strategy.

DeaconFrost said:

Thornton said:

but you cant make this assumption without a better understanding of ahow gamers work. ask any shooter who has played Unreal Tournament 2k3/2k4 and is GOOD on multiplayer, and they will tell you all else seems to SLOW DOWN!

Do you really think that's due to eyesight? C'mon. I'm really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and have a normal debate, but the more wild explanations you come up with, the harder it is becoming. Games slow down because the player gets better...at the game. The anticipation of moves and events gets better...that's a natural function of the brain, not the eyeball.

I played basketball very competitively until my college graduation. I played in high school in a league that featured two future NBA superstars. I played on AAU teams with many guys who earned DI scholarships and later played in the NBA as well. I played in college at a school that is awaiting a possible NCAA Tourney berth right now. As you learn the game and improve in your skills of said game, it seems to slow down because your brain isn't overwhelmed as much. When I separated myself as a good player....the game slowed down to me. I could see plays unfolding ahead of time...I knew where my teammates would be, and I learned to better anticipate how a defender would play me. I relied more on instinct than reaction.

I've been in competitive gaming tournaments and LAN parties in my younger days. I've heard real gamers discuss the very same things...but it has nothing to do with eyes. Look at someone new to a game...they struggle with the controls. That takes away brain power devoted to the game itself. Players more comfortable with the controls, and those with more skills, could relax more and just focus on the game itself and their strategy.

yes, things get slown down, you become so used to things moving so fast, you notice tiny details, at VERY high speeds you would never have noticed at any other time, people would get good by slowing down the game to 1/10 speed for about a week to a month, then speed it up to 10/1 for a week to a month when it when back to 1/1, everything seems slow again, if you think this isnt possible, go get the game and try it, you will understand EXACTLY what im saying, its like being permanently dizy of sorts. our eyes can see more than 60fps, we just dont notice any more than about 30, 60 to be safe, but when you have this increased awareness boost im telling you of, you notice the slight diffrences in EVERYTHING, it makes you add of sorts, i was add before it, so i think i can blame part of my ability to notice FPS dfferences on that, but like i said, you can see more than 60, you dont notice more than 60, after UT2k4, YOUL NOTICE MORE THAN 60 believe me, if you dont, ITS JUST YOU lol. believe it or not, im not trying yo be as stubborn as it sounds, and like i said, i dont think you became a professional without experiance, but i have to stand my ground when i say, that i notice, others notice, and it might not be somthing for day to day use, but it rocks for intense gaming...

if anyone here has played UT and can help me explain it better and maybe a little less abbruptly id appreciate it lol


just read the part about strategy, its verry clear you have never played UT, the only strategy in UT is... run, jump, dont get hit, jack the flag lol
there is no strategy to it, the coolest thing about the game was kill to kill, if you COULD kill, it meant you where one of the most badd ass gamers out there

iTRiP said:

My ubove metioned example only shows what is and is not capable...when applying V~sync "on" or "off"...and I know its only tested on a CRT and not whatever other types of screens there might be...

In my style I would not pay more to get more Hz...due to the example I shared with u all Hz is not a costly implication mearly a marketing sceme to sell monitors and any monitor can be modded to any Hz if only it is known how to do so...a crt monitor might not be the most tech savy, but does sport the highest Hz and crisp picture, vivid colours, best viewing angle for the least amount of coin.

On my crt I can play 12~18hour a day @100+ Hz and in my drivers licence eye test after doing so for all my life I still get 20/20 vision report. Strain only comes from a screen syncing at a certain Hz and a programe or system not capable of doing so...!

PS: everybdy might not see it or be capable of it but faster is wht we want for less. "there is no speed limit"

you say with the know how, any monitor the Hz can be adjusted, can you explain, or show me how i might do this with an LCD? i have 3 of them, if i dont have to buy any new moniters that would be ideal now wouldnt it. i would like to say. i dont want to come across like im not listening to any of your advice, i know i asked for it, but some of it doesnt seem like advice, some of it seems like just saying, its a wast of time.

im not sure whats involved in this, so if we can start there if you would be willing to explain this, and then i can decide if i want to actually try and mess with my monitors. is it similar to OCing of sorts?

iTRiP said:

To keep myself save and within the bounds and ruls of todays, world, society, eco and for that matter out of reatch of any lawsuits...im unable to go into the specifics: But as it is time we all need to know more and be screwed less for our coin these days I can tell that your are almost spot on that modding a monitor is like over clocking a gpu or cpu or ram or whatever,{not reccomended by the manufacturer and not covered by the garenty nor the warenty}...Most screens are simply limited by their onboard software*the hard~coded type: into a circuitboard or chip* and some are only limmited by gpu drivers or witchever the signal is being sent from...and the very same thing that detects the monitor being connected and sets a preset `driver` or in most cases are willfully installed by the user thinking it is the best driver for the hardware*(in acordence with predetermined specification) limmmit on the screen the first time it displays anything...

If u believe that u have been limmited by one of the above mentioned, and not the ammount of coin u spent on the actual purchase of the screen...U can indeed try it to mod the screen in `example: *create Custom resolutions* found on some gpu drivers control pannel, witch will take allot of time to figre out and have u risk the savety of the screen in question...to find out if u have resolutions and other Hz available that might have been overlooked when the screen got limmited by to start with...some help here is if u mess~up and end with an out of bounds Hz or Res` during the process: restart in windows savemode simply uninstall drivers and reinstall to start over if u are lucky u might find what u are looking for, an easier way would be to lookup the abovementioned hardware chip onboard the screen witch will be the limmiting culprit in most cases and get this replaced by onther or simply make your own...

Like I said I know this for a fact and if this is at all possible on anything other than CRT is for u all to find out...for the most part there are millions of ways to combine Hz and res and other numbers witch combined properly make a display outputt viewable and u would understand why this is that we are bound to so few mostly becoz it takes time to integrate them properly on every screen...!

Ps: u all are wellcome to try to mod screens just dont blame me if u blow yourself up`
(WARNiNG SCREEN MODDiNG DANGEROUS)

well i have an old CRT i could try it on if youd be willing to to explain it, i see you explained it some in the last post but not by much lol