Computer unable to power up randomly, Z77 Ex4 with 3570k

Chiaki · 12 Aug 2014

I had this weird problem regarding my computer.
3 months ago,
It will not power on randomly(no lights, no post) and the fans will suddenly start running after a random period of time (the psu wall socket is on)
After a few days (1-2 days), I will be able to power on the computer again and it will be unable to power on after 1-2 days again. This happen repeatedly for 2 weeks till i took out every part and resit them,

I did a bread board on this set up + cleaning all contacts and after doing so, it miraculous worked , the computer was able to run flawlessly for 3 months.
One sign i noticed is that every time the system is able to turn on, the time and date will be lagging behind the current time by 8-12hours.

3months later ,
the problem is back and I had resit all components and still there is no power activities. It will suddenly work 1-2 days later.

What should I do next? I am out of ideas...

My computer:
Asrock Extreme 4 Z77 with 3570K
8GB Gskill Ripjaw
Seasonic M series 620Watts
M4 Crucial SSD 128GB
2 Western Digital HDD

I had done the following steps
- Using a spare PSU and it doesn't work
- Using a spare Motherboard with both PSU, and it doesn't work
- When the system is able to power on, i switched the processor to the spare motherboard and it powered on

By eliminating each components, could it be a CPU fault and if so, how do i explain to intel for a RMA. (It is working now after 2 days of down time) Can a CPU cause the computer to not receive power randomly?

English is not my native language so, I am sorry for the grammar errors.

And thanks for helping.

TVeblen · 12 Aug 2014

"One sign i noticed is that every time the system is able to turn on, the time and date will be lagging behind the current time by 8-12hours."

This would indicate that the 3v motherboard coin battery is dead or dying. And that could also be the cause of these kinds of problems.
These coin batteries are cheap and you can buy them most anywhere, so you should try that first. Most motherboards use a CR2032 battery.

Chiaki · 12 Aug 2014

Hi, thanks for the help. I forgotten to add that I had changed the mother board battery twice and the problem still occur.

TVeblen · 12 Aug 2014

OK, so if I understand correctly you have:

Replaced the motherboard battery
Tried a second power supply (that is compatible with the motherboard)
Tried a second motherboard

And the results were that the processor would work in one motherboard, but not the other.

Did it run for 3 months after cleaning and refitting on the original motherboard?
Or did you make the motherboard switch the first time and then it ran for 3 months?
Does the CPU run OK on one motherboard but not the other?

Do you get any indication of power to the motherboard?

Does the motherboard power LED light up?
Do any of the fans spin, even momentarily?
Do you get any beep codes, or motherboard LED codes?

Have you carefully inspected the processor for bent pins or signs of corrosion?

Are you using a good CPU heatsink and fan and is it installed with thermal grease?

You should also perform a version of the no-boot test:

The Test (power off, power cord unplugged):

Disconnect everything externally connected except the mouse and keyboard (printers, USB devices, etc). If you are not using a wired mouse and keyboard see if you can borrow one. The wireless device is just another component you have to deal with.
Disconnect the power and data cables from all the drives inside the computer (Hard drives, DVD/CD drives, etc).
Remove all the cards installed in the expansion slots (PCI/PCI-e) including the video card. (Be careful handling them and place them on a non conductive surface while testing).
Remove all the RAM sticks (same rules as above).

Now connect the power cord and turn the PC on.

The motherboard should start beeping. You should get a beep code that tells you there is no memory. This is good, it means the processor is functioning and the motherboard is good so far.
Now add one stick of memory in Slot A1 and power on. More beeping: "no video card" beep code. This is good.
Then add the video card and connect it to the monitor. You should get no beeping and you should see the BIOS start screens, ending with the message that there is no boot device.
If you get no video then switch the one memory stick installed for another one and test.
If you do get video then start adding components back, one at a time, until the system fails to boot. The last component you added is then the problem component.

Or in your case, the component causing the power failure.

Chiaki · 12 Aug 2014

Thanks

Yes, I had replaced the battery and tried with a spare working PSU and MSI Z77 board.

Yes, it ran for ~3months after cleaning and refitting the components, causing me to think that it was bad contact causing the problem
I didn't switch the motherboard as the MSI board was borrowed from a friend, I was using the Asrock board all these time
When the PC isn't able to power on on my Asrock board, it will not work on the MSI board as well. When the PC is able to run normally on the Asrock, it will run smoothly on the MSI board. After switching all the parts around to test for issues.

The problem occur every 1-3 days at random, and it will be working fine after a random 1-3 days again. When it is working, everything will run smoothly and I can still engage in rendering works.

Nope, there aren't any indication of power to the board. When the PC refused to power on, , it behaves as though there are no power supply.

However, sometime after leaving it for a prolonged period (10-15min or so),
-the fans will start spinning itself at low RPM,
-no sound from the hard disk,
-power LED will light up,
-no other LED/indicator on the motherboard
The fans are attached to both PSU and Motherboard,

There aren't any bent pins or exploded capacitor that i can visually see. Not sure how to check for corrosion.

I was using Antec 920 and CM 212 Evo with thermal grease

I had tried the no boot test with everything disconnected. However, the PC would failed to power on with just the CPU installed. I had tried on both motherboards with the bare minimal and it won't power on.
-When PC is able to power on, i switched the CPU over to the MSI board and it was able to power on too

I guess I managed to isolate the issue to the motherboard or CPU, unless the MSI spare board is faulty as well. The main culprit should be the CPU? Is a CPU error able to cause the PC to stop working at random and work as normal at random?

The PC is refusing to power on again now.

Layback Bear · 12 Aug 2014

Could you explain this in more detail.

From post #5.

The fans are attached to both PSU and Motherboard,

Have you tried building the system out of the case?

Any thing that cause a short to power or ground will cause this to happen and cause your bios battery to die.

Chiaki · 12 Aug 2014

Layback Bear said:

Could you explain this in more detail.

From post #5.

The fans are attached to both PSU and Motherboard,

Have you tried building the system out of the case?

Any thing that cause a short to power or ground will cause this to happen and cause your bios battery to die.

This was when everything is still inside the case, with all the parts inside. During this time, only the CPU fans is attached to the motherboard and the case fans are attached to the PSU directly(haven't started removing the parts for testing).

I had tried testing the system outside the case on top of the motherboard cupboard box with just the cpu + heatsink + motherboards, no fans other than the CPU fan and also replaced the bios battery yesterday.

As my family member described, the whole issue started during a thunderstorm. The PC just started up by itself(which they shut down after that) and since that day, the PC was having issues. All the electrical applications are working normally in my house, no power trip and i am living in an apartment (13 floors high but I am on the 5th storey). I wasn't around when it happened. Could this be the cause, but the buildings here are grounded properly and all powerline and telephone lines are underground.

TVeblen · 12 Aug 2014

Well, you've done an excellent job diagnosing the problem. Yes, it could be a bad CPU. It is the core of the whole system. There is no logic without it.

You could be dealing with damage done by a power surge from a lightening strike. The grounding system protects humans from electrocution but not electronics from surges. You need a surge protector for that.

The only confusing thing is that everything you describe points to a bad or damaged power supply as the first suspect. Which makes me wonder - are you using the same power cord when you try both power supplies? A surge could damage the cord itself. You might even try wiggling or twisting it when there is no power.

Chiaki · 12 Aug 2014

yup, i changed the power cord too. I will try requesting for a RMA on the CPU then. I am worried that the chip might work in their factory test and reject the RMA since the issue is random.

Yes, that is the confusing part. It all points to the PSU or motherboard and it got me all puzzled and confused at the testing stage.

I will get a surge protector after this incident too, but won't a surge damage most of the electronic using the same power source?

Thanks so much for the time in helping me too.

TVeblen · 13 Aug 2014

A surge protector works like a circuit breaker. If it detects a power surge that exceeds a set limit it opens the circuit and cuts off all power going to any attached device.
Unlike an electrical system circuit breaker, which opens if it detects devices drawing more power than the wires are rated for, a surge protector opens if it detects excess power being pushed to the devices end of things.

Electricity, like water, will take the path of least resistance. So while it is more common for a surge to take out everything, there are cases where it takes out just one circuit in a buildings wiring.