Is this is a good deal?

townsbg · 24 May 2016

A refurb is likely a year old or more, will come with a much shorter warranty period (if any), might have visible signs of use such as scratches or even dents, and has probably been repaired. I am not saying that it isn't for you but I am saying that that kind of money for a computer in such a condition isn't for me. For that kind of money (or a little bit more if need be) I'd want something brand new. Addram seems to agree with me on that. Others are saying that you don't need that kind of horsepower for an office computer when a cheaper processor such as an i3 should work just fine for web browsing, office, email, etc. Now I've never used an i7 but if what the others are saying is correct the system you are looking at is designed for heavy gaming or video editing and overkill for, as you put it, super-basic use. A dual core i3 would get you that and save you money which is why you came to us correct? Now you are seemingly only considering the costs against other i7 systems but perhaps instead consider if you even need an i7. Why buy that when you can get an i3 for say 450 or even 350? Don't hold me to that because I haven't looked at prices in a while but you should get the idea. Also IMO 8 gb of ram is a waste for such usage. I have 8 gb but only because I run virtual machines. 4 gb would be just fine for light computer use and it would save you a little more money. As for your windows 10 question I cannot answer that.

kwitel · 24 May 2016

townsbg said:

A refurb is likely a year old or more, will come with a much shorter warranty period (if any), might have visible signs of use such as scratches or even dents, and has probably been repaired. I am not saying that it isn't for you but I am saying that that kind of money for a computer in such a condition isn't for me. For that kind of money (or a little bit more if need be) I'd want something brand new. Addram seems to agree with me on that. Others are saying that you don't need that kind of horsepower for an office computer when a cheaper processor such as an i3 should work just fine for web browsing, office, email, etc. Now I've never used an i7 but if what the others are saying is correct the system you are looking at is designed for heavy gaming or video editing and overkill for, as you put it, super-basic use. A dual core i3 would get you that and save you money which is why you came to us correct? Now you are seemingly only considering the costs against other i7 systems but perhaps instead consider if you even need an i7. Why buy that when you can get an i3 for say 450 or even 350? Don't hold me to that because I haven't looked at prices in a while but you should get the idea. Also IMO 8 gb of ram is a waste for such usage. I have 8 gb but only because I run virtual machines. 4 gb would be just fine for light computer use and it would save you a little more money.

Town-I totally appreciate your comments and I am absolutely taking them into consideration.
I came here to learn what im doing wrong with my search...and I am adjusting accordingly.
I have already started looking into i3s and 5s and have dropped my RAM down to 4 (I can always add more later, for quite cheap).
All that said, I would like to take some "future-proofing" into perspective here so im thinking I at least grab an SSD to keep things speedy.
I am still amazed at how expensive the lowest models are...relative to the juiced up refurbs.

One other question for you though: does it matter what generation processor I get per sku or should I stick with the most recent ones as possible?

Also, what connectivity requirements would I have if I wanted to have 3 monitors?

Thanks again for your time.

ignatzatsonic · 24 May 2016

We don't know exactly what you mean by "super-basic". Your other thread shows you have a machine with 98 processes that has only about 1 GB of RAM available out of 6 installed.

Maybe that machine is not representative of what you want out of the new PCs.

So, we are all in the dark a bit.

If I were you----I'd get a quad-core as a minimum. I'm not sure, but I think all or nearly all i5 Intel machines are quad-core.

Re generations: I'd stick to the last couple of generations in order to get the later chipsets and the features they offer. I wouldn't go back as far as Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge. PCs from those generations ARE PLENTY fast enough for what you want to do, but you give up a few features and are likely to pay about what you would for the more recent generations (Haswell and Skylake).

If I had to for budgetary reasons, I'd buy the thing without an SSD and then put in an SSD myself--immediately after buying it. Then re-use the included standard HD for some other purpose--probably internal storage. That way, you avoid the premium prices still charged for SSDs, when you can buy a 256 GB SSD all day for 50 or 75 bucks. I say this ONLY if it's necessary for budget purposes and you are willing to move the OS and installed applications from the included HD to the SSD. Maybe you don't even want to open the case--I don't know.

Likewise, you could certainly buy a PC with 4 GB of RAM and later add another 4 on your own. It's a quick and easy job.

But, I'd certainly budget for an SSD, one way or another.

I can tell you from personal experience that the current Skylake generation is a considerable improvement over earlier generations regarding heat and power use. I just moved to an i5-6600K and it runs about 12 degrees cooler than my previous Sandy Bridge i5-2500. So, power use and heat are trending down significantly on newer generations. Maybe that's a factor for you.

Decide if you are willing to install your own SSD.

Then go shopping for a new machine at Dell or Lenovo or HP or Newegg or Amazon with about these specs. Find 4 or 5 candidates and post the links to them so we can better advise you:

Intel mid range quad-core i5 from the last couple of generations--CPU model number beginning with 4 or 6, without a K at the end.

4 GB RAM.

Standard HD up to 1 TB in size or an SSD of perhaps 256 GB.

Monitor if you need one.

Windows: decide if you want 7, 8.1, or 10 pre-installed. I haven't shopped, but you may find 10 much more common now?

Post some links to candidates.

I just took a quick look at Dell.com and found an Inspiron i5-4460 with 8 GB of RAM for 499, without a monitor; 620 with basic monitor. Windows 10. Office 365. Standard hard drive.

Playing with their ridiculous configurator, it looks like they offer SSDs only with i7s, at least in the home line. Maybe not with the business line. I didn't check.

That's probably semi-competitive at least, so you should be able to find candidates from competitors in the 600 to 650 range.

ignatzatsonic · 24 May 2016

Just took a look at Dell's business line.

It looks like if you want an SSD, you have to pay 579 on up. 679 on up if you want an i5:

kwitel · 24 May 2016

ignatzatsonic said:

Just took a look at Dell's business line.

It looks like if you want an SSD, you have to pay 579 on up. 679 on up if you want an i5:

Thanks for the help.

You will pay close to a G for a Dell Optiplex with 256gb ssd and a i5 or higher.

On Ebay, I found a new Optiplex (7020) with an i5-4590, 4gb of ram (which I can upgrade to 8 if need be), windows 7 and an 500gb Optical for 500.
That said, I do not want to deal with he hassle of moving everything over to an SSD.

I can get a refurb Opti with an i7, 256ssd and 8gb of ram for 550...

ignatzatsonic · 24 May 2016

You'd never know you had an i7 rather than an i5 for any task you have yet mentioned. It's a waste. Intel charges a premium of close to 100 for the i7 and it's worthwhile for certain edge cases on certain tasks, but not on your tasks.

Do you have to buy very soon--next few days or a week?

If not, I'd continue to lay in the weeds and watch---looking for a NEW SSD machine with an i5 with either 4 or 8 gb of RAM for say 600 and under.

I personally would not take a chance on a refurb from a random source.

You should look at the Dell Factory Outlet. I assume it's still around. It's part of Dell, where they sell machines that have very little to no use--returns and discontinued stuff mostly. I would be willing to buy from there. I would NOT assume anything there is a bargain, though. You have to compare to a known new identical machine.

Do you have ANY idea of how much storage space you need for data, not Windows--or do you have any idea how much storage space you need all told, including Windows and applications? 200 GB? 700?

Windows alone takes up less than 30. Windows plus 50 apps might take up no more than 40.

kwitel · 24 May 2016

ignatzatsonic said:

You'd never know you had an i7 rather than an i5 for any task you have yet mentioned. It's a waste. Intel charges a premium of close to 100 for the i7 and it's worthwhile for certain edge cases on certain tasks, but not on your tasks.

Do you have to buy very soon--next few days or a week?

If not, I'd continue to lay in the weeds and watch---looking for a NEW SSD machine with an i5 with either 4 or 8 gb of RAM for say 600 and under.

I personally would not take a chance on a refurb from a random source.

You should look at the Dell Factory Outlet. I assume it's still around. It's part of Dell, where they sell machines that have very little to no use--returns and discontinued stuff mostly. I would be willing to buy from there. I would NOT assume anything there is a bargain, though. You have to compare to a known new identical machine.

Do you have ANY idea of how much storage space you need for data, not Windows--or do you have any idea how much storage space you need all told, including Windows and applications? 200 GB? 700?

Windows alone takes up less than 30. Windows plus 50 apps might take up no more than 40.

I move into my new office on June 1st so need to have it by then.
I use very little HD space on my work computers.
Maybe 100gbs all in.
Ive had 256ssds in the past and didnt come close to using half of the allotted space as most of what i do is cloud based.

What did you think of the 500 deal for the new Dell machines with optical drives?

I will check the Dell Outlet.

ignatzatsonic · 24 May 2016

kwitel said:

I move into my new office on June 1st so need to have it by then.
I use very little HD space on my work computers.
Maybe 100gbs all in.
Ive had 256ssds in the past and didnt come close to using half of the allotted space as most of what i do is cloud based.

What did you think of the 500 deal for the new Dell machines with optical drives?

I will check the Dell Outlet.

If you've had SSDs, then you are the world's best judge of whether or not you think they are worth the price.

If not, forget about SSDs and go with a standard drive. 500 GB is pretty much the minimum you can find nowadays on a pre-built machine.

If you need to have it at your business within a week, you are up against a deadline.

I don't know if that 500 price for the Dell is competitive. You should be able to figure out within an hour on Google if it is.

Other things you have to consider: installed software, return rights from whoever you are buying from, warranty, customer service, etc. If you aren't buying directly from Dell, you may be in uncharted water with the seller.

I'm not overly excited about Dell, but that's mostly because I build my own. I'd guess the major brands--HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc are all about the same degree of a crapshoot.

So, I'd shop on the basis of specs and my opinion of the seller. You might check him out as best you can through Reseller ratings or whatever else you can think of.

I'd personally pay more for a Dell from Dell than I would for an identical PC from a seller on Ebay about whom I know little to nothing. Ebay is always a gamble to some degree if you are not familiar with the seller.

And I would not reject an upper level i3 if I had to, perhaps an i3-6100? That's speculation based on you saying you don't need anything very strong.

The i3-6100 is just a dual core, but has a high clock speed: 3.70.

Digerati · 24 May 2016

My 2¢ concerning SSDs - I don't use hard drives anymore, except in my backup server. Yeah, they still cost more, but if you spread that extra cost over the life of the computer (5 years or so), that extra money is almost a wash (don't forget to factor in lower energy consumption and lower cooling costs). Plus there's a good chance that SSD will last another 5 years while the drive will likely be showing signs of wear - if it lasts that long.

RolandJS · 24 May 2016

Please add at least one if not two usb external hard-drives for making weekly or bi-monthly backups using a well-known well-respected backup/restore utility such as Macrium Reflect, Acronis True Image, just to name two of many free and pay-for utilities.
I know you're going to use the Cloud, one question: what if it rains? [worst cases: cloud company goes poof, cloud company goes offline awhile, etc.]