Question about HDD's

In truth all HDDS are designed to run at full tilt flat out in speed and capacity

Speed, spinning no rest, that is why SCSI came in to life way back, speed and capacity RAID setups, as reality proved HDDs are not the quality required. Modern SATa Sata II SAS are all able to take lots of punishment, of case they will fail as any HDD will or SSD

Capacity, again Windows and a HDD is designed to run full 100% fully
Reality is a little different. Windows flexes as it works i.e. capacity goes up and down and this is normal

If you fill a boot OS drive it generally will stop freeze once 100% is hit (not tried this for years thou) and as such you need to delete, can be tricky but its doable

So, keep things trim, less is better and bigish drive are best with less stored

As a guide I don't see why a couple GB is not enough to say ok I need to do some house keeping

Page file is generally 1gb or will reallocate if your under, then you see reduction in pace of the machine

So housekeeping is good as well

In truth all HDDS are designed to run at full tilt flat out in speed and capacity

Speed, spinning no rest

No they aren't. Speed and capacity, yes. But not all drives are designed to run 24/7/365. For that, you need an enterprise class drive - one designed for server type environments. And not sure of your point about speed. Hard drives don't run at variable speeds. In fact, it is necessary for drive motors to consistently run at designed speeds (5400, 7200, 10K RPM, etc.). And of course, the stepper motor for the R/W heads move at a consistent rate too.

And frankly SCSI is a dying breed. Even SAS SCSI hard drives have a questionable future with the prices of SSDs continuing to fall.

Capacity, again Windows and a HDD is designed to run full 100% fully

Again, not true. Windows MUST have a nice chunk of free disk space available to operate in for open and temporary file management, dynamic page file management, Restore Points, and more. Many applications (like Office apps) use a considerable amount of free disk space for temporary files too. Word for example, by default saves a temporary backup of every open document, and periodically saves a draft too.

In effect, you just verified what I just said by contradicting yourself when you said Windows will freeze once 100% is hit. Freezing at full 100% is a clear indication it is NOT "designed to run full 100%" as you claimed.

Page file is generally 1gb or will reallocate

I might suggest you do some homework and research before making inaccurate claims - especially as a new member on an established technical support site. Making a splash with such inaccuracies leaves the opposite impression you are trying to make.

I cannot remember the last time I saw such a tiny PF as 1GB on a system where Windows manages the PF size (the default setting). If you have a small amount of RAM installed, Windows typically initially defaults the PF size to 1.5 x the amount of RAM. That means if you only have 1GB of RAM installed (and when was the last computer you saw with just 1GB of RAM?), that would still be a PF of 1.5GB or more. That said, when you have a tiny amount of RAM installed, Windows needs more space to operate in - larger "virtual" RAM space - so with less RAM, you often end up with a larger PF, not smaller.

Yes, if Windows is allowed to manage the PF size (the default and recommended setting), it will reallocate (resize) as needed based on the user's computing habits and installed hardware. But I don't believe ever to that small size, even if disk space is critically low. I note now, with 16GB of RAM installed in this computer, Windows 10 has allocated 2.4GB for the PF. My other 16GB system has 3.1GB set by W10 for the PF. My 8GB notebook has 8.1GB set by Windows and another 4GB W10 PC has a 6.2GB PF.

Those variable speed hard drives were not "variable" in the true sense. They were basically 2-speed. They ran at a slightly slower speed when on battery, and full speed when on charger. They did not constantly vary as was implied.

My point about 24/7 was based on the comment that included 100% use. A spinning drive motor is one thing. A R/W head constantly swinging back and forth is another. But also, the comment was "all" hard drives are designed to run "full tilt flat out and capacity". I stand by my comments, but should have been more clear. Thanks for pointing that out.

As for your PFs, are you saying that with all 4 computers, they are set with "Windows managed" PF sizes and they all are set to 1GB? As for your 800, the minimum recommended is not the same as what Windows actually set. I note on this 16GB 64-bit W10 Pro system, the Minimum allowed on my boot drive is a mere 16MB. But the recommended 2938MB and the "Currently allocated" is 2432MB.

BTW, AFAIK, there is no white paper, study or MSKB the recommends disabling or manually setting the PF. Nor is there any paper anywhere that says disabling the PF is "better" even if you have lots of RAM. There is an old Mark R. paper often cited that debunks the old 1.5 x RAM "rule of thumb" because with gobs of RAM that would be ridiculous. With 16GB of RAM installed, I sure don't need a 24GB PF hogging up disk space. But Mark does not recommend disabling it.

And I note for those who manual set a PF, that is generally a mistake because it is NOT a set and forget setting. VM requirements should regularly be re-analyzed and adjusted as needed. This is exactly why Windows manages it "dynamically".

Modern versions of Windows are not XP.

I have System Restore disabled (imaging with Marium Reflect is far more reliable) so I have no need for anymore than 1GB.

??? Ummm, System Restore and the Page File are not related.

Answers in Blue

Itaregid said:

In truth all HDDS are designed to run at full tilt flat out in speed and capacity

Speed, spinning no rest

No they aren't. Speed and capacity, yes. But not all drives are designed to run 24/7/365. For that, you need an enterprise class drive - one designed for server type environments. And not sure of your point about speed. Hard drives don't run at variable speeds. In fact, it is necessary for drive motors to consistently run at designed speeds (5400, 7200, 10K RPM, etc.). And of course, the stepper motor for the R/W heads move at a consistent rate too.

And frankly SCSI is a dying breed. Even SAS SCSI hard drives have a questionable future with the prices of SSDs continuing to fall.

Yes there are variable speeds in HDDs not in the true scene but they do not run 100% constant (this has been addressed below)

Capacity, again Windows and a HDD is designed to run full 100% fully

Again, not true. Windows MUST have a nice chunk of free disk space available to operate in for open and temporary file management, dynamic page file management, Restore Points, and more. Many applications (like Office apps) use a considerable amount of free disk space for temporary files too. Word for example, by default saves a temporary backup of every open document, and periodically saves a draft too.

Yes they are designed to run to capacity, you can run at 100% commonly they will freeze and you delete to make them work, kick back in, try it on an old drive - of cause you can go open everything and expect miricals, but it will work (can not say for 8 or 10 thou)

In effect, you just verified what I just said by contradicting yourself when you said Windows will freeze once 100% is hit. Freezing at full 100% is a clear indication it is NOT "designed to run full 100%" as you claimed.
See above

Page file is generally 1gb or will reallocate

I might suggest you do some homework and research before making inaccurate claims - especially as a new member on an established technical support site. Making a splash with such inaccuracies leaves the opposite impression you are trying to make.

i think you will find this is pretty good information and is detailed below, again cant say for 8 or 10

I cannot remember the last time I saw such a tiny PF as 1GB on a system where Windows manages the PF size (the default setting). If you have a small amount of RAM installed, Windows typically initially defaults the PF size to 1.5 x the amount of RAM. That means if you only have 1GB of RAM installed (and when was the last computer you saw with just 1GB of RAM?), that would still be a PF of 1.5GB or more. That said, when you have a tiny amount of RAM installed, Windows needs more space to operate in - larger "virtual" RAM space - so with less RAM, you often end up with a larger PF, not smaller.

Yes, if Windows is allowed to manage the PF size (the default and recommended setting), it will reallocate (resize) as needed based on the user's computing habits and installed hardware. But I don't believe ever to that small size, even if disk space is critically low. I note now, with 16GB of RAM installed in this computer, Windows 10 has allocated 2.4GB for the PF. My other 16GB system has 3.1GB set by W10 for the PF. My 8GB notebook has 8.1GB set by Windows and another 4GB W10 PC has a 6.2GB PF.

Yes Windows can and will manage page, then again you dont have to have a page file,

Reply's in blue

Lady Fitzgerald said:

My responses in bold.

Itaregid said:

In truth all HDDS are designed to run at full tilt flat out in speed and capacity

Speed, spinning no rest

No they aren't. Speed and capacity, yes. But not all drives are designed to run 24/7/365. For that, you need an enterprise class drive - one designed for server type environments.

SATA and SAS these are in servers

Actually, the better quality consumer grade drives can run for years 24/7 as long as one isn't constantly writing and read to and from them 23/7. The three WD Blacks (two 2TB and one 4TB) have been running 24/7 for several years without a problem; one 2TB black has been in two different computers and its five year warranty has expired. HGST is another brand (ironically, now owned by WD) that has high quality consumer grade drives that will run just fine. Recent reports from Backblaze showed that low end WD drives were an average of five years old before starting to fail (and Backblaze runs their drives under harsh conditions.

And not sure of your point about speed. Hard drives don't run at variable speeds. In fact, it is necessary for drive motors to consistently run at designed speeds (5400, 7200, 10K RPM, etc.). And of course, the stepper motor for the R/W heads move at a consistent rate too.

As i have said they do not run constant admitted I dont think i ever used the word variable??

WD's Green drives ran at variable speeds. The Greens have recently been replaced with the new 5400 rpm Blues; it's not certain if they are still variable speed or not.


And frankly SCSI is a dying breed. Even SAS SCSI hard drives have a questionable future with the prices of SSDs continuing to fall.

I have experience many many issues and fails with SSD and life of SSD - more so with apps that are database stuff and millions of read rights - not great, intel were pretty good but cost a bomb

Again, not true. Windows MUST have a nice chunk of free disk space available to operate in for open and temporary file management, dynamic page file management, Restore Points, and more. Many applications (like Office apps) use a considerable amount of free disk space for temporary files too. Word for example, by default saves a temporary backup of every open document, and periodically saves a draft too.

In effect, you just verified what I just said by contradicting yourself when you said Windows will freeze once 100% is hit. Freezing at full 100% is a clear indication it is NOT "designed to run full 100%" as you claimed.

Try it for yourself.. cant say for 8 or 10 thou

Page file is generally 1gb or will reallocate

I might suggest you do some homework and research before making inaccurate claims - especially as a new member on an established technical support site. Making a splash with such inaccuracies leaves the opposite impression you are trying to make.

I cannot remember the last time I saw such a tiny PF as 1GB on a system where Windows manages the PF size (the default setting). If you have a small amount of RAM installed, Windows typically initially defaults the PF size to 1.5 x the amount of RAM. That means if you only have 1GB of RAM installed (and when was the last computer you saw with just 1GB of RAM?), that would still be a PF of 1.5GB or more. That said, when you have a tiny amount of RAM installed, Windows needs more space to operate in - larger "virtual" RAM space - so with less RAM, you often end up with a larger PF, not smaller.

Depends what systems your using of cause - most office or business system this is fine x86 is common place

Yes, if Windows is allowed to manage the PF size (the default and recommended setting), it will reallocate (resize) as needed based on the user's computing habits and installed hardware. But I don't believe ever to that small size, even if disk space is critically low. I note now, with 16GB of RAM installed in this computer, Windows 10 has allocated 2.4GB for the PF. My other 16GB system has 3.1GB set by W10 for the PF. My 8GB notebook has 8.1GB set by Windows and another 4GB W10 PC has a 6.2GB PF.

x86 4GB max remember

All three of the computer's I have that are set up (I have a fourth one I haven't set up yet and a fifth one under construction) have the Page File set to 1GB. At no time has Windows attempted to reset that setting. The minimum that Windows recommends (for Win 7, anyway) is 800MB so error messages from events, such as BSODs, can be reported. I have System Restore disabled (imaging with Marium Reflect is far more reliable) so I have no need for anymore than 1GB.

Windows will reset if you lack hdd space - try it fill a DIR with big files and copy paste until you find little left and reboot see the warning message?? Reallocation. nothing you can do about it once the point is hit windows will step in
You dont have to use page files and if your on 2x HDD or more move to off the main OS

Lady Fitzgerald said:

Where have you been hiding? Do a search using Page File and SSD for the search terms.

I have - every time this subject comes up. I would ask you do the same. Note I specifically said there is no "white paper, study or MSKB article" that claims or recommends disabling or manually setting the PF. Nor is there any paper anywhere (that I can find - I would welcome seeing one if you can find one) that says disabling the PF is "better" even if you have lots of RAM. My point being, there is no professional study by any recognized expert that recommends disabling the PF, or even setting and forgetting a manual size. And for sure, there are no professional studies that conclude messing with the PF improves performance. On the contrary, there several like this, Page File Setup - MS TechNet article by Ed Bott that recommend you don't disable it and making it smaller can actually slow down performance.

The forums are full of novices and experienced users who have disabled the PF or set a tiny PF who claim their computer still works fine. But is "because it didn't break" really a valid justification? I say no.

What I meant by modern Windows are not XP is that we should not and do not need to treat modern versions of Windows like we did XP. That is, what was often necessary to make XP run better are not needed with modern versions of Windows, and in fact, may be detrimental to their performance. Messing with PF and defrag settings are good examples. And it is no longer necessary to disable Indexing either.

Microsoft has not been sitting on their thumbs these last couple decades. I don't have a lot of nice things to say about Microsoft management/business decisions and in particular Microsoft marketing decisions, but their development teams are top notch! They have dozens of PhDs and computer scientists with decades worth of exabytes of empirical data and supercomputers at their disposal. W7, W8, and W10 are not XP.

Microsoft knows how to manage page files and obtain peak performance from Windows without our intervention.

Really? How many battery operated computers have you seen that use 3.5" drives?

I did not know we were talking exclusively about 3.5" drives. The original comment was "all" drives are designed to run "full tilt flat out in speed and capacity". Nothing about 3.5" there. But to that, please provide a link to a hard drive that is designed to run at "variable speeds". And by variable, I mean in the true sense - not 2 speed. I acknowledge there are "green" (energy saving) drives that can run at 2 different speeds.

x86 4GB max remember

That's installed "physical" (system) RAM, not virtual RAM or PF size.

jack3 said:

Windows will reset if you lack hdd space

Reset? No it won't. There are many things Windows will do when free disk space gets low. It will, for example, delete Restore Points or even disable System Restore completely. But "reset" Windows? No.

You dont have to use page files and if your on 2x HDD or more move to off the main OS

I never said you have to use Page Files. I said there is absolutely no evidence anywhere indicating running without one is better. But there are studies showing the contrary. And there is no professional study that suggests disabling it. Having 2 or more HDs has absolutely nothing to do with it either. It is all about free disk space - regardless where it is located. That said, if you have multiple drives, running with multiple PFs can improve performance. And if the PF is left on the boot drive, dump data will be saved there if possible.