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Windows 7: Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies

18 Mar 2017   #1
timw128

Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
 
 
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies

Hello-

I have enjoyed this Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD since purchase in Nov 2015.

We used the Samsung Magician (v4.5) disc that came with it and tuned the drive accordingly, plus

we changed the other recommended system settings for SSD's.

Moved the Page File to the 1TB Storage drive, along with My Documents, My Pictures, My Videos,

and Downloads. System Restore was turned off.

About a week or two ago (maybe a tad longer) Boot seemed to take a bit longer and the machine

seemed like it was slowing down since the SSD installation. By most standards, it's still rather quick.

Found out that there was a v5.0 of Magician available, so we installed it and removed the other

version. Tuning options are not available on the v5.0 compared to other version.

I had the SSD set to 'Rapid Mode' since the beginning. However, it sure seems like it's a tad snappier

without 'Rapid Mode'.

We're getting significantly worse read/write values since install- when that happened, can't be certain,

as we benchmark drive as infrequently as possible.

Samsung has agreed to RMA the drive, but we'll buy a new one first to keep up and running.

Our research back in 11/2015 prior to purchase indicated the 850 PRO was top shelf.

Please take a look at the Magician attachment, using ver. 5.0, and also the User Benchmarks

average based on 16K samples... we're backed up and have full system images at 3 sources,

so not worried there.

I would like to hear some constructive opinions about this issue, and offer appreciation in advance.

Thank you!




Attached Thumbnails
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies-version-5.0.jpg   Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies-bench.jpg  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
19 Mar 2017   #2
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Hello Tim mate if it were me I would dump the magician period.

I had a problem quite a while back where the USB ports in my main desktop stopped functioning and to cut a long story short a member told me that this was caused by the magician software - uninstalled it and bingo the ports came back.

So have never used it since and I am running at least six Samsung SSD's and to be honest the features in the software were of no real use when I used it before and I find apart from the odd sfc and chkdsk and using CCleaner to keep the drives tidy I don't do anything else.

You might try this before and after uninstalling the magician if that is what you decide to do.
Download AS SSD benchmark 1.9.5986 - Technical Details - FileHippo.com sometimes it is in German but that is no problem as the readout is obviously read and write rates.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2017   #3
timw128

Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICIT2LOL View Post
You might try this before and after uninstalling the magician if that is what you decide to do.
Download AS SSD benchmark 1.9.5986 - Technical Details - FileHippo.com sometimes it is in German but that is no problem as the readout is obviously read and write rates.
OK, here's the Before and After Magician uninstall using AS SSD Benchmark.

I just don't understand how the read/write values would degrade like this since Nov. 2015.

According to SSDLife (see attached screenshots) the drive is 100% healthy.

Again, thanks!


Attached Thumbnails
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies-ssdlife.png  
Attached Images
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies-before.jpg Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies-after.jpg Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies-ssdlife_smart.png 
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

20 Mar 2017   #4
johnhoh

Win7 pro x64
 
 

"I just don't understand how the read/write values would degrade like this since Nov. 2015."

I am not seeing a clear 2015 vs 2017 picture based on the above. Can you summarize briefly what exactly your good 2015 and bad 2017 numbers are? Just a few words of text is all.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2017   #5
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Well John I was just after those figures for comparison after uninstalling that magician software which I mentioned to the OP I will not use because I cannot see any value in it and it caused more issues than without it. Besides there are plenty of softwares out there that will keep these things in top shape.

Quote:
I just don't understand how the read/write values would degrade like this since Nov. 2015.
Now the wear level is really arbitrary it depends on the use you give the SSD if for example you regularly clean install or save and delete a lot of documents pics etc then it might but that would have to be a very heavy usage.
All the same SSD's do degrade over time. See the section at the end of this
How to: Delete Your Data Securely on Windows | Surveillance Self-Defense 1 and click on the links re wear levelling.

Quote:
According to SSDLife (see attached screenshots) the drive is 100% healthy.
Yes that is probably down to the current status of the SSD memory "blocks" that are free it might not reflect the ones that have worn out for want of a better term.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2017   #6
timw128

Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by johnhoh View Post
"I just don't understand how the read/write values would degrade like this since Nov. 2015."

I am not seeing a clear 2015 vs 2017 picture based on the above. Can you summarize briefly what exactly your good 2015 and bad 2017 numbers are? Just a few words of text is all.
Sequential's were in the 550 range and Random's were 100K+ when new.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2017   #7
timw128

Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICIT2LOL View Post
...Besides there are plenty of softwares out there that will keep these things in top shape.

Now the wear level is really arbitrary it depends on the use you give the SSD if for example you regularly clean install or save and delete a lot of documents pics etc then it might but that would have to be a very heavy usage.
And what progs do you refer to, specifically?...

Clean install on this drive, only once... as far as 'save and delete a lot', well, that's subjective. One would

have to define 'a lot'.

I don't like a lot of cookies, temp files, etc. hanging around, so I clean with CCleaner usually once a day

if usage is high. Gave that a thought and decided that maybe that's not such a good idea.

Like I mentioned prior, the SSD was bought and installed back in Nov 2015 and it's had over 3500GB of

data written to it...

I was just looking at the Samsung specs for the drive and the numbers we were getting when new were the

MAX values- in other words, it's like saying 'up to' in advertising lingo. If you want to take a look, here's a

link-

Access Denied

We'll go read that link you provided.

Thanks.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2017   #8
johnhoh

Win7 pro x64
 
 

I was hoping you had a clear apples to apples comparison with the same benchmark in 2015 and in 2017. If 2015 performance is not documented in your environment its hard to say there is a problem. Also, have you seen this?

Yes, file system fragmentation DOES affect SSD read speed
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2017   #9
timw128

Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICIT2LOL View Post
... SSD's do degrade over time. See the section at the end of this
How to: Delete Your Data Securely on Windows | Surveillance Self-Defense 1 and click on the links re wear leveling.
OK, read that last paragraph, pretty much understood how SSD architecture works... liked the pencil,

paper, eraser analogy.

Samsung V-NAND technology features a unique design that stacks 48 layers on top of one another instead

of trying to decrease the cellsí pitch size. That vertical architecture was new and cutting edge in 2015... the

850 PRO is STILL pretty much the highest rated SSD out there, the exception, perhaps, is their lower

priced EVO variant. (Best SSDs: Q1 2017)

I think I'm going to have to teach myself a better user strategy and refrain from cleaning up so

frequently. It's my first SSD and I've learned a lot from it.

Thanks for the input
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Mar 2017   #10
timw128

Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by johnhoh View Post
I was hoping you had a clear apples to apples comparison with the same benchmark in 2015 and in 2017. If 2015 performance is not documented in your environment its hard to say there is a problem. Also, have you seen this?

Yes, file system fragmentation DOES affect SSD read speed
I may have, John...I'll have to go and dig around in the cloud. Usually, I benchmark new products and save

for future reference/troubleshooting.

Of further note, when I had Magician software installed I ran the drive in Rapid Mode 100% of the time.

I have the RAM maxed out (32GB) with some pretty quick G.SKILL memory, and Rapid Mode simply

caches off from that to increase SSD speed up to 1.8 times faster.

Hey, I'm glad you brought that up regarding fragmentation, as that's what got me into analyzing this

drive. No, I didn't read that particular link, but will.

I used Piriform Defraggler AND Windows internal defrag to do an analysis ONLY... I had read at a tech site

that Defraggler did an excellent job of analyzing an SSD. Defraggler indicated 30% and Windows 20%

fragmentation (Can provide graphics if needed). Piriform, along with a couple of other sources, claim that

it's OK to defrag/optimize an SSD occasionally. I have not done so, because I'm not sold on it. I've heard

that Windows 8/10 automatically optimize SSD's, but personally have not used those systems.

Thanks.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Anomalies




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