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Windows 7: SSD Errors, Low Level Format Required?

4 Weeks Ago   #1
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18.2 MATE, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
SSD Errors, Low Level Format Required?

I have a partition on an SSD, which contains some VMs.

I attempted to copy a VM from that drive to several different locations.
Each time Windows spat out an error message, "Unexpected Error ...".

Check Disk reported no errors on any of the drives used.
SMART reports no errors either.

I tried copying the file using Linux Mint, but it gave an error message "File Splitting Error ...".

I've managed to copy the files I wanted from the VM (it seems to run normally).

It seems like the drive has "Bad Sectors".

Would using Check Disk (with the " /r") option be sufficient to fix the problem, OR should I run a Low Level Format to "block" the Bad Sectors?


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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4 Weeks Ago   #2
Megahertz07

Windows 7 HP 64
 
 

- If check disk didn't find any problems, seems that isn't logical.
- The "Unexpected Error ...". error could be from a Windows as some file could be in use, but an error with Linux, seems to be more serious.
- What you mean "I've managed to copy the files I wanted from the VM (it seems to run normally)"?

Ask Jumanji for help. He is the disk guru.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
4 Weeks Ago   #3
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18.2 MATE, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
It's Weird

My SSD has 3 partitions on it.

The W7 and LM18 partitions haven't displayed any strange behaviour.
SSD Errors, Low Level Format Required?-disk-management-ssd-2017-07-24.png
SSD Errors, Low Level Format Required?-speccy-ssd-2017-07-24-cropped.png
The "Reported Uncorrectable Errors" count was 0 (on 2017-07-11).

The Virtual partition has 3 VMs on it (LM17, W7 & XP).

The LM17 & XP VMs run with no apparent issues.
The W7 VM failed to boot, but it worked correctly when I used a snapshot (from a few months ago).

I was able to:
  • Start the LM17 VM and copy all of the files to my Host PC, except for 2 jpgs (I cannot copy or clone this VM).
  • Clone the W7 VM
  • Copy the XP VM
I have no experience with SSD Failure Behaviours/Symptoms (i.e. this is my first SSD).
If this was occurring on a HDD partition, I'd assume that it had defective Blocks/Sectors and the HDD would need to replaced.

I always thought that "CHKDSK /F" only checked the MFT to see if the items in it, matched disk locations.
Whenever I've wanted to find dead HDD Blocks/Sectors, I've had to run "CHKDSK /R".

I feel that I have basically eliminated the following factors as the cause:
  • USB - can't copy the file to external and/or internal drives
  • File System - "CHKDSK /F" found no issues
  • OS - Both W7 & LM 18 were unable to copy the file
As far as I can tell the only thing left is the SSD partition itself.

So my questions are:
  1. Can I force the SSD controller to acknowledge the error(s)?
  2. What is the best method to do this?
  3. If the SSD Controller finds and quarantines the error(s) will the drive be usable?
  4. Is this the start of an avalanche of errors (just like a HDD)?


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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4 Weeks Ago   #4
jumanji

Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit
 
 

"I have no experience with SSD Failure Behaviours/Symptoms (i.e. this is my first SSD)."

1 . Me much less, why less NIL. I haven't even seen one . 2. VMs again Nil 3. You have already copied the files. So there is no data recovery involved.

Reasons why I did not want to put my fingers on it even though I had seen your post.

Now I see that you have two jpgs that you couldn't copy.

Now what?

One can low level format a complete disk not a partition. So out of reckoning.( Using bootice however we can find the start sector and end sector and write zeros in all that sectors. You will lose all three VMs in that partition plus no data recovery is possible once you have written zeros. After that you have to do a regular format on that volume and recreate your VMs)

Try your luck running the following checkdisk command and see whether it helps.

CHKDSK K: /f /v /r /x Press enter. Note: Replace K: with the actual drive letter of that partition.

( As a matter of abundant caution please backup all data that you may not want to lose in the other two VMs in that partition before running checkdisk..)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
4 Weeks Ago   #5
TechnoMage2016

Windows 7 Ultimate, SP1, x86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
I have a partition on an SSD, which contains some VMs.

I attempted to copy a VM from that drive to several different locations.
Each time Windows spat out an error message, "Unexpected Error ...".

Check Disk reported no errors on any of the drives used.
SMART reports no errors either.

I tried copying the file using Linux Mint, but it gave an error message "File Splitting Error ...".

I've managed to copy the files I wanted from the VM (it seems to run normally).

It seems like the drive has "Bad Sectors".

Would using Check Disk (with the " /r") option be sufficient to fix the problem, OR should I run a Low Level Format to "block" the Bad Sectors?
Are you daft mate? An SSD is little more than a huge Flash Drive, it doesn't have platters, heads or disk sectors. All that stuff is only associated with a mechanical hard drive, also called a 'spinner'.

Once you delete something from an SSD it's gone, just like on a flash drive. There is NO SUCH thing as low level formatting an SSD.

And when an SSD stops working, toss it, because it's DONE.
Been there....done that!

My System SpecsSystem Spec
4 Weeks Ago   #6
Mellon Head

Win 7 Pro x64/Win 10 Pro x64 dual boot
 
 

Quote:
So my questions are:
  1. Can I force the SSD controller to acknowledge the error(s)?
  2. What is the best method to do this?
  3. If the SSD Controller finds and quarantines the error(s) will the drive be usable?
  4. Is this the start of an avalanche of errors (just like a HDD)?
Answers:

1. Possibly. Depends on the controller and the firmware
2. Can't answer this one definitively, though chkdsk /r would seem to be a good choice
3. It will be if it's only a few NAND sectors that have gone bad, and not the controller.
4. As long as it is not the controller, you should be all right if the only problem is premature NAND cell failure. If you have a bad memory chip, you'll get an error cascade over time. Then the drive is toast.


Usually when an SSD dies it just completely stops working. No access at all to any files, and often the drive will go completely offline.

That's not to say that an SSD can't have bad sectors, because the memory cells in the NAND flash can wear out prematurely. It happens with "thumb" or "pen" drives as well. Usually, I just throw those out when they do that, but an SSD might be worth trying to save.

I would try jumanji's chkdsk trick. As long as you can backup beforehand you have nothing to lose.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
4 Weeks Ago   #7
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18.2 MATE, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jumanji View Post
One can low level format a complete disk not a partition. So out of reckoning.( Using bootice however we can find the start sector and end sector and write zeros in all that sectors. You will lose all three VMs in that partition plus no data recovery is possible once you have written zeros. After that you have to do a regular format on that volume and recreate your VMs)
My bad, wrong terminology.

I meant Format the drive, but make sure that "Quick Format" isn't selected.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jumanji View Post
Try your luck running the following checkdisk command and see whether it helps.

CHKDSK K: /f /v /r /x Press enter. Note: Replace K: with the actual drive letter of that partition.
Thanks for that tip, jumanji.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TechnoMage2016 View Post
Are you daft mate? An SSD is little more than a huge Flash Drive, it doesn't have platters, heads or disk sectors. All that stuff is only associated with a mechanical hard drive, also called a 'spinner'.
I am aware of the basic construction of SSDs.

My understanding is that SSDs simulate HDD structure.
That's why you can format them to use current file systems (like FAT, NTFS, EXT, etc.) instead of having to use some new file system.

If you use Macrium Reflect to image an SSD partition, it reports Start Sector and End Sector.
SSD Errors, Low Level Format Required?-macrium-reflect-ssd-2017-07-25.png
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TechnoMage2016 View Post
Once you delete something from an SSD it's gone, just like on a flash drive.
I am aware of that too.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TechnoMage2016 View Post
There is NO SUCH thing as low level formatting an SSD.
My bad, wrong terminology.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mellon Head View Post
Answers:

1. Possibly. Depends on the controller and the firmware
2. Can't answer this one definitively, though chkdsk /r would seem to be a good choice
3. It will be if it's only a few NAND sectors that have gone bad, and not the controller.
4. As long as it is not the controller, you should be all right if the only problem is premature NAND cell failure. If you have a bad memory chip, you'll get an error cascade over time. Then the drive is toast.
Thanks Mellon Head.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mellon Head View Post
Usually when an SSD dies it just completely stops working. No access at all to any files, and often the drive will go completely offline.
Just like a HDD, if the controller fails it's totally kaput.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mellon Head View Post
That's not to say that an SSD can't have bad sectors, because the memory cells in the NAND flash can wear out prematurely. It happens with "thumb" or "pen" drives as well. Usually, I just throw those out when they do that, but an SSD might be worth trying to save.
My hypothesis was that there was a "minor" failure, given that the:
  • W7 & LM18 partitions seem fine
  • LM17 VM seems to run perfectly (apart from the 2 jpgs).
  • W7 VM ran normally using the snapshot
  • XP VM was unaffected

The SSD is 3-4 years old, so it may be vulnerable to the "power loss damage" issue.
We had several power dropouts last month and on at least one of those occasions, I had left the LM17 VM running.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
3 Weeks Ago   #8
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18.2 MATE, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
Success

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jumanji View Post
Try your luck running the following checkdisk command and see whether it helps.

CHKDSK K: /f /v /r /x Press enter. Note: Replace K: with the actual drive letter of that partition.
I ran this command and it seems to have fixed the issue.

It took longer to complete than I expected it to (at least 12 hours).
Some Bad Sectors were detected (affecting the LM17 VM and W7 VM).

After it had finished, all the VMs booted and ran.
I was able to copy the LM17 VM to a new location.
Code:
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>CHKDSK D: /f /v /r /x
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is Virtual.

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 5)...
  3072 file records processed.
File verification completed.
  276 large file records processed.
  0 bad file records processed.
  0 EA records processed.
  0 reparse records processed.
CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 5)...
  3132 index entries processed.
Index verification completed.
  0 unindexed files scanned.
  0 unindexed files recovered.
CHKDSK is verifying security descriptors (stage 3 of 5)...
  3072 file SDs/SIDs processed.
Security descriptor verification completed.
  31 data files processed.
CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...
  48809672 USN bytes processed.
Usn Journal verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
Windows replaced bad clusters in file 43
of name \VMW-W7~1\VMW-W7~1.VMD.
10 percent complete. (1855 of 3056 files processed)
Windows replaced bad clusters in file 1964
of name \VMW-LM~1\VMW-LM~1.VMD.
  3056 files processed.
File data verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
  26914356 free clusters processed.
Free space verification is complete.
Adding 835 bad clusters to the Bad Clusters File.
Correcting errors in the master file table's (MFT) BITMAP attribute.
Correcting errors in the Volume Bitmap.
Windows has made corrections to the file system.

 386929663 KB total disk space.
 279139424 KB in 1790 files.
       940 KB in 32 indexes.
      3340 KB in bad sectors.
    128539 KB in use by the system.
     65536 KB occupied by the log file.
 107657420 KB available on disk.

      4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
  96732415 total allocation units on disk.
  26914355 allocation units available on disk.

C:\Windows\system32>
My System SpecsSystem Spec
3 Weeks Ago   #9
jumanji

Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit
 
 

Glad that you can sleep peacefully now. Thank Megahertz07 for forcibly "dropping" me in into this thread/threat while I was reluctant to enter into it and it worked.

In the past while we were trying to recover data from the disks that had turned RAW, running TestDisk File System Utilities, it reported that everything was perfect - the Volume Boot Record, the backup of the Volume Boot Record and also the MFT. Then why is it RAW? As a last option we tried that checkdisk command and Lo and behold the drive came back alive. The OP was immensely happy and dancing with joy.

And when I do recommend this checkdisk procedure, I usually add a sentence not to do anything with the PC while it is running - hands off - and not to abort it midway through for whatever reason even if it takes one week. That could make matters worse. I do not know why I forgot to add this caution in this thread. Anyway you were patient enough to let it run unhindered and achieved the results. Well done.

You may mark this thread as solved if after repeated checks and rechecks you are convinced the problem has been successfully resolved.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
3 Weeks Ago   #10
Megahertz07

Windows 7 HP 64
 
 

Never like to see bad blocks or bad clusters.
And you have 835 bad clusters.
I would replace the SSD drive.

Remember, SSD is a flash memory. And flash memory has a limited erase / write, then it dies. That is why I transfer \users, virtual memory, temp folder, antivirus, etc from the SSD to the HDD.


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 SSD Errors, Low Level Format Required?




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