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Windows 7: PC Shuts Down Unexpectedly During Start-Up

09 Dec 2017   #11
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

@Acova

Another question: is it mostly, if it is not always, visible to the MoBo if it is faulty? Just like you said before about chexking the MoBo for any exploded cylinders or cracks.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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09 Dec 2017   #12
Acova

Windows 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
...BTW, let me ask you a question regarding your statement about CPU problem; what do you mean by "If it was CPU, then your machine would run working different periods of time each time, as it heats up through processing stuff - which is not a stable or fixed variable."? ...
it does look confusing, this tells me I went too far for thinking whilst forgetting to output it properly.

I recall I tried to link ends of CPU's temperature being different at times and its relationship with its processing speed or data travel. This might be rather a topic of some nano units of time, but depending on CPU's condition, it could prove to be a significant/visible/noticeable speed fluctuation there.

This understanding comes from real experience where I saw someone burning own GPU while playing a racing game. Things were degrading gradually. Also, had another case when experienced how graphic card lost its ability to render full color range screens - eventually it burned too. Might go other way around with CPUs though, but there is nothing wrong to assume alike to GPU's behaviour for it.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I noticed my PC to be running slower but I dont think it is so abnormal because I can still run games like GTA V smoothly, or open and use Office or watching streaming videos at the net one at a time or all at the same time. It sometimes happen that when I run a program, lets say Office, it loads slower, but then again, when it opened, I can use it smoothly without delay in my typing or applying edits in the texts.
Consider the following case:

You started PC and it is running doing nothing (idling).
Now, let's say you decided to launch a large-scale application (large amount of resources to load/process or this type of application involves much to be arranged for processing).
As far as I can tell, data gets fetched within the system and it allocates for it relevant resources and etc etc, but the point here is because you launch that app for the first time (in this session of PC working), it will load it for longer than any second or third attempt (given the same conditions). This is usually about data being fetched from storage (therefore, here gets involved how fast the data is read off the storage device, which may as well act slower, depending on its condition), and since any "consequent" launch of same app appears to load faster, it points on the fact that the system kinda leaves some pointers in Temp or memory (doesn't matter where), which it uses in order to cut down on loading time for any "re-launch". I cannot recall much for how it goes around with SDD (since they are designed differently), but it is the case with HDD type of storage.

There are also some services that help to note down your apps you start. Their purpose is to pre-fetch some data off the storage in order to launch specific app at times when you would usually do launch them. Something like this is controlled via Services, which you can access. There are some things to play around should you ever want to slightly enhance your PC's performance.
There is an open-able window called "Services" via Task Manager (tab Services, but of course it is not the only way around how to open that window ;D ). It lists all kinds of services including Windows Update services (which I believe take up some resources if they are set to be automatic for update check-up). Some services are crucial to keep running, but some could be emmm "temporary" switched off, should you feel that your resources are eaten up in background.


For a practical example: you could observe its timing loading up for the first time in PC's session some app (take MS Word for a test). Start it, let it finish some processing once opened, close it. Then retry starting it, then you should find some loading time difference with the first launch, if not, try 3rd time or go by other program's launch for a test.

Anyways, I've mentioned all this only to help you distinguish where the processing really works slower than usual.
Surely there are apps helping its users to keep a track of CPU's speed and etc, but in your case, you can only rely on memory for times when you feel it was or seemed to work slower than usual. Here is the meat of the whole message:

If you noticed PC processing same things but slower than usual, then it may point on some component receiving too much work, whilst its current condition of self isn't able to keep up with the load.

Example: one plays some high resource demanding game, goes through the same or alike point in game, and sees some lagging, stuttering, framing/phasing happening (FPS drops if I may state it so).

Now, there are different chips out there and not all behave same way. Some may keep running at high temperature, yet, process things slower, or some will terminate their activity in order to prevent some damage to happen on them, and others will work at a lower rate, to keep up with balanced / not too high temperature.



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I also will connect my monitor and HDD during trial, just to know if it loads the windows normally.
I don't think it will load up to OS being loaded, given your first post's story.



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
But it just worries me that I dont hear the single beep when I turned on the PC which I always hear at the time that this PC works.
I will link few things for you to look at, unless you already had before:

1) Computer POST and beep codes

2) How to test a computer motherboard and CPU for failures (Full list with articles: Computer Hardware Help and Support )

2nd source, quotation:

"...The first thing to do is a visual check of the motherboard. A common cause of motherboard issues or failure is bulged or blown capacitors. Check the top of each capacitor to see if it is bulging, even slightly, or if the capacitor is leaking, which is an indication the capacitor is blown. If you find any bulging or blown capacitors, that is very likely the cause of any motherboard issues in your computer. ..."

So for earlier mentioned "cylinders" I rather meant, capacitors.



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04
Another question: is it mostly, if it is not always, visible to the MoBo if it is faulty? Just like you said before about chexking the MoBo for any exploded cylinders or cracks.
Searched for an example and found some.
Have a look at the link below, they include some examples how a blown capacitor may look like and other moments:

How to check your desktop computer for failed capacitors



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04
Thank you, Acova, for your eagerness to help me (just by looking at your long reply)!
I hope what you've read helped you in a way or at least pushed you onto other thoughts or ideas to consider for further conclusions.

You're having a trouble with PC's component and I went through this several times in past myself.
I know this part in life well.

By the way, I had such idea: don't you have somewhere locally a computer shop where people repair them?
Maybe you could figure out if they could test your MoBo for you? You will need MoBo's details and of course the card itself. Though, remember one thing - not each of them will do their best or honest work, but just if you happen to know a well established and with reputation place... maybe it would be worth asking them? It's up to you at this point, just, thoughts aloud.



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04
Thinking of how hard to replace MoBo while retaining my old windows makes me feel very bad (i think that is not just as simple as replacing the MoBo and im good to go).
HDD is the place your OS and the rest will reside. Though I am unsure if OS is rooted to motherboard in some way - need to refresh my mind on this one, but if you are to buy a new MoBo, it is about getting one which is COMPATIBLE with your other components. It's a pesky thing to go through, or it's just me not being good enough with MoBo's in general. In either case, you heard my thoughts.



ADDED:

By the way, given you hear no beep... and if I don't mistake, you would, if it was CPU acting up... isn't this an extra moment to account in order to blame more MoBo / PSU ? Not that the beep would "definitely" happen upon self-check at the start up, but anyways, just another thought popped in and thought to share.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2017   #13
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

With regards to the CPU issue, as far as I can remember, I dont think I have a problem with it before. But I cant be so sure, since my memory is more like a RAM..

For now, I contacted the maker (Asus) for some assistance.. I also considered the repair, and already found a place to start. However, I cant do that now since it is Sunday now. Maybe the last thing I can do is to trial-and-error the MoBo, CPU and PSU.

I will update the post after.

TO ALL: If someone has any idea to help me, please tell me what to do next. Thank You!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

09 Dec 2017   #14
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Acova View Post
HDD is the place your OS and the rest will reside. Though I am unsure if OS is rooted to motherboard in some way - need to refresh my mind on this one, but if you are to buy a new MoBo, it is about getting one which is COMPATIBLE with your other components. It's a pesky thing to go through, or it's just me not being good enough with MoBo's in general. In either case, you heard my thoughts.
I think it is not just replacing. I remember something before about CPU having something like "registration" with the MoBo during installation of OS, lets say Windows, and also MoBo to OS HDD. For example, you cannot install an OS HDD to your friend's PC hoping that you can run your OS there. So you cant just install any of it everywhere hoping that you can run it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2017   #15
Acova

Windows 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
With regards to the CPU issue, as far as I can remember, I dont think I have a problem with it before. But I cant be so sure, since my memory is more like a RAM..

For now, I contacted the maker (Asus) for some assistance.. I also considered the repair, and already found a place to start. However, I cant do that now since it is Sunday now. Maybe the last thing I can do is to trial-and-error the MoBo, CPU and PSU.

I will update the post after.

TO ALL: If someone has any idea to help me, please tell me what to do next. Thank You!
I believe it is worth doing a throughout visual inspection of MoBo, especially given there is no beep sound made at the start-up.

As for PSU, given the said 2-30 seconds of running state after power-on of PC, and you still don't hear the beep...

If it is PSU being guilty, you would by normal means still hear the beep sound, same as for CPU's case.
(unless "no beep sound" means nothing is ok about system)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2017   #16
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Acova View Post
By the way, given you hear no beep... and if I don't mistake, you would, if it was CPU acting up... isn't this an extra moment to account in order to blame more MoBo / PSU ? Not that the beep would "definitely" happen upon self-check at the start up, but anyways, just another thought popped in and thought to share.
I will test again today, and to be sure, I will remove the RAM again then test the SPEAKER pins in the MoBo using a multitester after turning the MoBo on, hoping to see if it will read 5v from there. Maybe, just maybe, the speaker is faulty so no beep sound..

BTW, can i normally hear a beep (assuming I have no problem with my MoBo or CPU or PSU) when I remove the other parts except the 3 that I mentioned?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2017   #17
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

Does the speaker for beep sounds get its power from the +5VSB? Because as far as I know, +5VSB is always ON when PSU switch is ON, not like the others (which you need to "short" the #PSON first. If it does, then I can hear a beep sound even the MoBo just shuts down? Am i correct?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2017   #18
Acova

Windows 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
For now, I contacted the maker (Asus) for some assistance.. I also considered the repair, and already found a place to start.
I hope they will be of a help to you no less than here.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I will test again today, and to be sure, I will remove the RAM again then test the SPEAKER pins in the MoBo using a multitester after turning the MoBo on, hoping to see if it will read 5v from there. Maybe, just maybe, the speaker is faulty so no beep sound..

BTW, can i normally hear a beep (assuming I have no problem with my MoBo or CPU or PSU) when I remove the other parts except the 3 that I mentioned?
Even if the speaker ended up being faulty, what makes me doubt is that it cannot be possibly the reason why you get sudden shut downs. I don't see it this much vital that whole rest of the system fails to work.

Besides this, what are the chances that "something" went wrong (elsewhere, not MoBo) and "faulty" speaker tags along the first problem? Think they are way too low.

Given your story, I can assume that your BIOS is working alright, can't I?
If BIOS is somehow damaged, it might not give you any beep there too, but so the further loading would never appear either, which is not really the case in your story.. so I believe your BIOS is alright and correct one for your system.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
BTW, can i normally hear a beep (assuming I have no problem with my MoBo or CPU or PSU) when I remove the other parts except the 3 that I mentioned?
I don't remember if it does it to the given lack of components.

I've had a glance just now in this article: How does a computer work?
Or in few words, no beep sound may also indicate a failure somewhere in the system.
This statement rather takes us away from MoBo at some point, sharing chances it could be other component. :/


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
Does the speaker for beep sounds get its power from the +5VSB? Because as far as I know, +5VSB is always ON when PSU switch is ON, not like the others (which you need to "short" the #PSON first. If it does, then I can hear a beep sound even the MoBo just shuts down? Am i correct?
I may be wrong, but I doubt it takes its power from +5VSB, since it can take power from an already running resource of energy.


It's a midnight now. I will check up on thread after I rest or whenever I am available. At present, it takes too much for me to put few thoughts together.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2017   #19
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Acova View Post
Even if the speaker ended up being faulty, what makes me doubt is that it cannot be possibly the reason why you get sudden shut downs. I don't see it this much vital that whole rest of the system fails to work.
I just thought of this speaker thing not to suspect it as a culprit but to know that it is functioning so that I can use the Beep Codes you linked to me. I cant use it if I cant hear any beep, right?

I just finished my thorough inspection of the MoBo and I can say that, by physical appearance, there is no problem with it. No problems in capacitors, resistors, transistors, ICs, and the other parts. There is also no visible scratches on the PCB itself that may indicate open connections.

With regards to BIOS, I dont think I have a problem before because I am using the PC the day before the problem and it is OK. But I cant know now because of my trials and also I removed the CMOS battery and reset so I dont know for sure.

Thank you for your time, Acova! Have a nice sleep there.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Dec 2017   #20
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

I tried the system again, and again I decided to test with replacing RAM but now, I will time it until it shuts down. Using my existing 4GB and 2GB, one at a time, installed in the same socket (as per the configuration bu Asus for single RAM), I noticed that every PSU off then on then run, there is a varying time it took before every shut down, ranging from 5 seconds up to 30 seconds. I did it without doing anything except turning OFF the PSU, then wait until the green LED at MoBo dims then turn ON again the PSU then run the unit. I did it multiple times, and for both RAM (4GB and 2GB), both have varying times.

What do you think of the result? Is that a way to say that RAM maybe at fault here?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 PC Shuts Down Unexpectedly During Start-Up




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