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Windows 7: PC Shuts Down Unexpectedly During Start-Up

10 Dec 2017   #21
Megahertz07

Windows 7 HP 64
 
 

I don't think is RAM. A faulty RAM freezes the computer, doesn't shut it down. My opinion is a faulty MB, CPU or PS.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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10 Dec 2017   #22
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Megahertz07 View Post
I don't think is RAM. A faulty RAM freezes the computer, doesn't shut it down. My opinion is a faulty MB, CPU or PS.
I think so too, but just to clear my mind completely about it, i bought a new one, but 2GB only. As expected, its the same.

Do you think that PSU is the culprit even with the result of my initial testing?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Dec 2017   #23
Megahertz07

Windows 7 HP 64
 
 

PSU works or it doesn't. Same thing to MB.

By exclusion, my opinion is CPU.

At what level did you overclock, and what did you overclock?

I also seen that you have (2+2+4)G on memory. It's never a good idea mixing memory types.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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10 Dec 2017   #24
Acova

Windows 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I just thought of this speaker thing not to suspect it as a culprit but to know that it is functioning so that I can use the Beep Codes you linked to me. I cant use it if I cant hear any beep, right?
Yes, this does the logic. I for some reason had only one way of understanding it - probably due to fatigue.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I just finished my thorough inspection of the MoBo and I can say that, by physical appearance, there is no problem with it. No problems in capacitors, resistors, transistors, ICs, and the other parts. There is also no visible scratches on the PCB itself that may indicate open connections.

With regards to BIOS, I dont think I have a problem before because I am using the PC the day before the problem and it is OK. But I cant know now because of my trials and also I removed the CMOS battery and reset so I dont know for sure.
I think if you find nothing wrong with MoBo, then it should be in working condition. What I thought about BIOS is if you by some chance decided to update it manually and then these sorts of troubles began to happen. However, the way your system shuts down does not match BIOS being in trouble. Timing for shut downs is from 5 to 30 seconds, and if it happens with such difference, it simply tells me it is not BIOS.

Have you done any inspection of PSU internal parts conditions? As I remember it will have some capacitors, few of which are quite large ones.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
Thank you for your time, Acova! Have a nice sleep there.
Thanks. I've had a long one, as I skipped one night.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I tried the system again, and again I decided to test with replacing RAM but now, I will time it until it shuts down. Using my existing 4GB and 2GB, one at a time, installed in the same socket (as per the configuration bu Asus for single RAM), I noticed that every PSU off then on then run, there is a varying time it took before every shut down, ranging from 5 seconds up to 30 seconds. I did it without doing anything except turning OFF the PSU, then wait until the green LED at MoBo dims then turn ON again the PSU then run the unit. I did it multiple times, and for both RAM (4GB and 2GB), both have varying times.

What do you think of the result? Is that a way to say that RAM maybe at fault here?
I haven't had any case when it would be RAM guilty before, but for this reason I looked on symptoms of bad RAM: 5 Symptoms of a RAM Problem and How to Fix It | TurboFuture

So per description of each symptom laid out there, it doesn't seem to match your case. This you would rather like to recall, how the system was behaving before this problem.

If you believe that swapping RAM cards makes a difference to the timing it would shut down in, could be related to the internal system check it carries out each time. Eh, this would point on CPU at some point.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I noticed that every PSU off then on then run, there is a varying time it took before every shut down, ranging from 5 seconds up to 30 seconds.
Can you clarify about "every PSU off": under PSU I understand the component locked in a box like case, which is connected to the local electricity nest/jack (?) for power supply. It also has a switch for the whole system to stay either cut from local's energy resource or connected. If I got it right, you should have only one such. I am confused to hear "every PSU".

In either case, if you have an opportunity to inspect it too, maybe you could give it a look to be sure it visually looks healthy too.

If Mobo and PSU are in good condition, nothing out of ordinary, maybe they aren't the culprits.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04
3. Clean all parts, up to the disassembling the CPU, then reassemble. Still shuts down. (I dont know if CPU itself is OK, i have no way to check it..)
You went for the CPU check up right away there. Given your are from a warm country (correct me if I am wrong). Keeping up with components' temperatures would matter, same as keeping them clean and dust-free. If you were doing something pressuring CPU/GPU, but forgot to keep them dust-free, maybe it's the case here. The workload you had circulating back then, had made a final push on component which put your whole system out of work.



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I think so too, but just to clear my mind completely about it, i bought a new one, but 2GB only. As expected, its the same.

Do you think that PSU is the culprit even with the result of my initial testing?
Why were you in a hurry to buy RAM for a test? I hope it didn't cost you much, now that it's been done.
If you believe PSU is working alright from the way of your testing of it and visual check, then it is likely to be in a fine condition.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Dec 2017   #25
Acova

Windows 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Megahertz07 View Post
PSU works or it doesn't. Same thing to MB.
...
If the component experienced a slight change in its construction design part somewhere, it doesn't necessarily implicate its ending, but at least a negative amplification to its effectiveness. Or is this incorrect way of assuming how it would behave?

I just have the experience how it went with at least 2 GPUs long ago. There was deterioration showing up as these were used further.

Can't the same be assumed for MoBo/PSU?


I am not asking this only to support MoBo/PSU being still guilty. Given that tephen04 did an experiment with PSU and checked MoBo visually, rather tells me these are unlikely to be the culprits to shut downs now.

Also this part when RAM was swapped and different timing came out - is a useful observation to point on CPU.
If I understand it right, CPU is then processes RAM for a simple check there, where CPU reaches certain limit of work it can done in its condition that it gets forced on a shut down upon limit reach. Since RAM are different on capacities and slots installed, one takes more attention from CPU than the other does and in a different order, though this could be as well an insignificant change/factor for shutdown timing.

Anyways, if this thinking of the situation is valid then, then it helps. Also, the last activity on machine before the very first unexpected shutdown happened would be useful to know about too. If it was in the middle of some high resource demanding app running, then there it is where it began to "burn" / deteriorate.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Dec 2017   #26
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Megahertz07 View Post
PSU works or it doesn't. Same thing to MB.

By exclusion, my opinion is CPU.

At what level did you overclock, and what did you overclock?

I also seen that you have (2+2+4)G on memory. It's never a good idea mixing memory types.
I dont have any OC on my system, I think I didnt said that I have anything about OC..

Also, I think there is no problem mixing two 2GB and one 4GB, even if they have different frequencies, as long as MoBo is compatible with their speed. MoBo will just choose the lowest so it is OK but not economical. BTW, my RAM are all 1333MHz.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Dec 2017   #27
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

@Acova

Firstly, I would like to say sorry because this replies will not include any quotes because it is hard for me to quote every line using my phone. But I will answer to your questions based on the order you told them. Thank you!

Regarding BIOS, I dont think I have anything done to it because the last time I updated BIOS was about a year ago. And with this, I dont think the effect updating it will last until now. I am very well aware that updating BIOS is not as "simple" and "safe" as updating drivers. I read it somewhere before.

I havent done anything like disassembling the PSU because the result of my checking does not point to it. Unless there is a good reason, I can and I will do it. Remember the "risky" thing I do before? Thats the reason why I left my PSU intact for now.

I do think now that it is better if the PC acts abnormally before this problem occurred, at least I have some history to start on. But unfortunately, it doesnt. Internal System Check seems logical and that process comes from the CPU, and if without replacing anything and every turning ON has different shut down times, then it really is pointing out that CPU is acting abnormally. For this, I had talked to a repairman and tomorrow, I will visit him. We can tell it now for sure.

Sorry for the confusion. What I mean by "every PSU off then on then run" is everytime I turn OFF the PSU (switching the switch in the unit) then turning ON it again (the switch again) and then run (the switch from the CPU case to power up the MoBo). What I want to emphasize in the phrase "PSU off then on then run" is a single "action". I meant "every act" or "everytime I do that act". Again, sorry for the confusion.

I just looked the PSU internal parts from the fan side of the unit. For now anyway. After I went to the repairman I said earlier, if he didnt find any problem with my MoBo (and CPU because I will bring it with the MoBo) then PSU is the culprit.

Yes, my location (Philippines) is a warm country, but now is December so it is cold here now. But youre correct, temperature does matter especially on CPU. I had a situation before (a long time ago) that made my CPU super hot (I tried using Adobe AfterEffects and PowerDirector) and thats the time I knew about CPU going hot and then stopping my PC. But that incident has a displayed error and it only happened one time. I replaced the stock CPU cooler with DeepCool Ice Edge (the one with copper tubes and a large heatsink). No more CPU getting hot happened again (highest reading was 63deg even using those softwares I used before) . In short, I dont think I did something to make it super hot, although last time I use CPU-Z (the software to check CPU status) is about a year or less ago.

Regarding buying a new RAM, I just want to exclude it from the culprits so that possible culprits will be reduced by 1. But dont worry, the RAM is cheap (about $16) and also I can use it since I only have 3 RAMs and my MoBo slots are 4. Its a win-win decision for me. Thanks for the concern BTW.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Dec 2017   #28
Megahertz07

Windows 7 HP 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tephen04 View Post
I dont have any OC on my system, I think I didnt said that I have anything about OC..
Also, there is no problem mixing two 2GB and one 4GB, even if they have different frequencies, as long as MoBo is compatible with their speed. MoBo will just choose the lowest so it is OK but not economical. BTW, my RAM are all 1333MHz.
As you have an unlocked MB with a Z77 chipset, I just asked if you did an OC.

For the memories, I don't think your problem is related to memories, but when you mixed sizes, you lost the dual channel feature. And speed isn't the only parameter. There is also CAS latency etc.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Dec 2017   #29
Layback Bear

Windows 10 Pro. 64/ version 1709 Windows 7 Pro/64
 
 

By theory mixing ram will work.
BUT many times it doesn't.

In my opinion it's always best to get matched ram.

Jack
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Dec 2017   #30
tephen04

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
By theory mixing ram will work.
BUT many times it doesn't.

In my opinion it's always best to get matched ram.

Jack
Hello Jack!

What do you mean by "matched RAM"? By capacity or by frequency?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 PC Shuts Down Unexpectedly During Start-Up




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