Backup Internal Hard Drive

Space Cowboy · 06 Dec 2018

Hi,

Is there a reason for not using a SSD as your backup Hard Drive.

Would using a mechanical hard drive be a better laptop setup than having a SSD instead?

In other words is your main SSD & replacing the secondary HD with a SSD have any negitive or positive effects on a laptop? My thoughts are less heat and a quicker system setup. A external mechanical HD being used for a daily backup.

Or is there any advantage to using a HD as the secoundary a better setuo? I have no desire for a raid setup.

C:\256gb SSD & E:\1 tb SSD

or

C:\256gb SSD & E:\1tb, 7200 rpm Hard Drive

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thank You

mrjimphelps · 06 Dec 2018

You get more space for the money with a mechanical hard drive. That factor alone makes it a good backup drive.

As your backup drive gets close to filling up, you will either need to buy a new drive or delete some backups from the current drive. This applies whether you have a mechanical hard drive or an SSD.

With a mechanical drive, you should figure on buying a new drive every few years, and then copying the most important backups to the new drive. If you don't do this, then your backups will eventually be lost, because a mechanical hard drive won't last forever. I don't know how often you should replace a solid state drive.

Here are some things to consider if you plan on keeping your backups for any length of time:

If you want to keep certain backups forever, then you will need to consider a few things:
1. The media used to store the backups.
2. Will that media be accessible in the future.
3. What is the shelf life of your backup media.
4. Will the format used to store your format be accessible in the future.

The only way to make sure you can continue to access your backups into the foreseeable future is to move all that you want to keep from their current storage to whatever is current at the time you move them. Then keep doing this about every 10 years. Otherwise, they will become obsolete and inaccessible.

Lady Fitzgerald · 06 Dec 2018

As mrjimphelps pointed out, one reason for not using SSDs for backups is their cost; HDDs cost much less per GB. However, SSDs have another problem when being used for extended static backups. SSDs store data by the presence or lack of presence of a charge in its cells. That cell will eventually bleed down over time. That can vary from a few month to a year or more, depending on the quality of the SSD, how much data is stored on it, and the remaining write life, unless the SSD is powered up and read every so often. As long as backups are updated every month or two, that should never be a problem.

SSDs are far more durable physically and should last longer but, no matter what kind it is, all media will fail, given enough time, and can do so irrecoverably with little to no warning. That is one reason why one should always have more than one backup. For one's data to be reasonably safe, one should have two backup drives for every data drive in the computer--one kept onsite and one kept offsite--and those drives should be swapped out as often as practical to both as up to date as possible.

Replacing the secondary HDD in your with an SSD won't make your computer run any faster but it will speed up access to the data. An SSD will use less power and probably will improve the battery life of your computer a little. Also, SSDs are not subject to damage from being dropped or bumped like HDDs are. SSDs are completely silent, unlike HDDs, which may or may not emit an audible sound.

I'm using all SSDs now but it was expensive! I had a choice between selling my first or not buying a new truck. Since my first born would not have appreciated being sold and my daughter in law and grandchildren would have killed me, I had to forget about buying a new truck but I do not regret doing so. Fair warning, though, SSDs are as addictive as a drug; once you go all SSDs, you will not go back.

mrjimphelps · 06 Dec 2018

Lady Fitzgerald said:

SSDs have another problem when being used for extended static backups. SSDs store data by the presence or lack of presence of a charge in its cells. That cell will eventually bleed down over time. That can vary from a few month to a year or more, depending on the quality of the SSD, how much data is stored on it, and the remaining write life, unless the SSD is powered up and read every so often. As long as backups are updated every month or two, that should never be a problem.

I never thought about that. For me, that would definitely speak against using SSDs for long-term backup storage.

On my last job we backed up hundreds of servers every night to tape. Tape is by far the cheapest way to store massive amounts of data. Not only that, but the tape is only the storage medium; it is not the drive that reads the medium. With a mechanical hard drive, you have both the storage medium and the drive that reads the medium. My point in saying that is that with tape, you don't have to worry about the mechanism failing, because there is no mechanism - the mechanism is separate from the storage medium itself.

In my opinion, although tapes aren't the best way to do short-term storage of your backups, they are the best way to do long-term (10 years or more) storage of your backups. You will likely be able to find a tape drive somewhere out there (Ebay, etc) in order to recover your data, should that need arise. But if a long-term storage hard drive fails, you are out of luck.

Lady Fitzgerald · 06 Dec 2018

mrjimphelps said:

I never thought about that. For me, that would definitely speak against using SSDs for long-term backup storage.

On my last job we backed up hundreds of servers every night to tape. Tape is by far the cheapest way to store massive amounts of data. Not only that, but the tape is only the storage medium; it is not the drive that reads the medium. With a mechanical hard drive, you have both the storage medium and the drive that reads the medium. My point in saying that is that with tape, you don't have to worry about the mechanism failing, because there is no mechanism - the mechanism is separate from the storage medium itself.

In my opinion, although tapes aren't the best way to do short-term storage of your backups, they are the best way to do long-term (10 years or more) storage of your backups. You will likely be able to find a tape drive somewhere out there (Ebay, etc) in order to recover your data, should that need arise. But if a long-term storage hard drive fails, you are out of luck.

Technically, data that is stored over long periods of time are archives, not backups. Backups have to be kept up to date to avoid losing new or changed data. But I'm picking nits now.

True, tape will last longer than most media and is best for cold (static) storage of data. However, the tape used isn't as cheap as one would think since it's much higher quality than even reel to reel audio tapes. However, the real (no pun intended) expense of using tape comes from the drives that record and read the tapes. Even used, they don't exactly give them away (and I wouldn't trust anything cheap from Fleabay).

HDDs are more practical for consumer static storage but an HDD that just sits on the shelf should be pulled down at least once or twice a year to make sure it can still spin up and that the data is still intact. If HDDs aren't run once in a while, they can seize up.

mrjimphelps · 06 Dec 2018

Lady Fitzgerald said:

True, tape will last longer than most media and is best for cold (static) storage of data. However, the tape used isn't as cheap as one would think since it's much higher quality than even reel to reel audio tapes. However, the real (no pun intended) expense of using tape comes from the drives that record and read the tapes. Even used, they don't exactly give them away (and I wouldn't trust anything cheap from Fleabay).

HDDs are more practical for consumer static storage but an HDD that just sits on the shelf should be pulled down at least once or twice a year to make sure it can still spin up and that the data is still intact. If HDDs aren't run once in a while, they can seize up.

I agree with everything you have said. We used LTO5 tapes at my last job. They weren't very expensive, if you considered how much data you could get on one tape; but the drives were outrageous. Not only that, but you likely would have to pay a fee to the company you were renting your tape backup machine from. We had two Spectralogic tape backup machines, and we paid a hefty monthly fee for each one, which included a nice chunk of change for each drive, because a drive wouldn't work in their machine unless they activated it. But boy were those machines a wonder! Each machine would hold 249 tapes plus a cleaning tape. Combine that with EMC Networker software, and you have a really awesome package. All you needed to do was set everything up, and then monitor it to make sure that it didn't get hung (which didn't happen very often). It would automatically backup tons of data (hundreds of servers) every night. All we needed to do was remove the full tapes and add empty tapes once per week.

This sort of massive operation is definitely not for a home user. However, the cloud storage service that that home user subscribes to may in fact have a setup a lot like I have described above.

Space Cowboy · 06 Dec 2018

I guess I forgot to clearly explain what my question is.
I do a nightly backup to a external hard drive but have the 2nd SSD inside the laptop for drivers and other things due to the small size of the main SSD. I have been looking around and most use one of each. Mine came with a 1tb spinner as E and died in less than a year so I replaced it with the a 2nd SSD.

I have a few external backups that get rotated each night. So the 2nd SSD is 1tb of drivers, programs, videos, music ect. I sync and backup on a regulure basis.

My laptop really didn't gain much speed when I added the 2nd SSD but has no spinners in it now.

Thanks.

Lady Fitzgerald · 06 Dec 2018

Space Cowboy said:

I guess I forgot to clearly explain what my question is.
I do a nightly backup to a external hard drive but have the 2nd SSD inside the laptop for drivers and other things due to the small size of the main SSD. I have been looking around and most use one of each. Mine came with a 1tb spinner as E and died in less than a year so I replaced it with the SSD.

I have a few external backups that get rotated each night. So the 2nd SSD is 1tb of drivers, programs, videos, music ect. I sync and backup on a regulure basis.

My laptop really didn't gain much speed when I added the 2nd SSD but has no spinners in it now.

Thanks.

Now I'm totally confused.

What was your question again. Pretend I'm a senile, old lady (wait, I am one).

Space Cowboy · 06 Dec 2018

Is there a reason why most of the newer computers have at least one spinner? Does having both drives as SSD's provide any gain other than less heat.

It seems to provide no performace gain.

Lady Fitzgerald · 06 Dec 2018

Space Cowboy said:

Is there a reason why most of the newer computers have at least one spinner?...

Yes. SSDs cost considerably more per GB than HDDs. Using an SSD for the OS and programs and an HDD to store data is the most cost effective way to improve performance. Putting the OS and programs on the SSD will dramatically speed up booting the OS and loading programs over HDDs. Far less improvement is seen when putting data only on an SSD unless working with really large files.

Space Cowboy said:

...Does havid both drives as SSD provide any gain other than less heat.

Yes. It can increase battery charge life and won't fail if the laptop is dropped or even bumped hard while the drive is running. If working with really large files, such when processing raw photos, the increased speed will be noticeable. It's also possible the laptop will be quieter.