Solved Desktop needs static discharge EVERY TIME!!

Hi folks,

This is really puzzling me.

I have an elderly Dell Vostro desktop with Windows 7 SP1 64-bit (installed 24.09.2021). Not much software on it to be honest, Office 2010 and a few other progs (like Gadwin Print Screen) and a couple of printer drivers.

PC has 2GHz Core 2 Duo, 4Gb RAM and a 160Gb Hitachi HDD.

It takes an age to start and quite a while for it to shut down, despite this being a clean install of Windows 7.

Each time the pc is used, it is shut down (not sleep or hibernation).

Everything was peachy until around 3 weeks ago (apart from it being SLOOOOW).

Suddenly it wouldn't boot.

I get the Dell BIOS splash screen and the pc POSTs with no errors then I get a black screen with a flashing white cursor.

There is no hard disk activity.

If I press the power button - the pc immediately powers off.

If I take all the cables out, press and hold power button in for 20 sec, reconnect everything and pc boots normally. In fact, I'm writing this on the very same pc.

If I shut it down or even restart, the pc stalls at that black screen aster POSTing and I have to power off, remove cables, do a static drain, plug the cables back in and it then boots up.

ANY idea as to what is going on? I can't make sense out of it at all.

Is it a RAM issue or processor or motherboard or BIOS?

Anyone know of a fix for this??

Thanks in advance,

Zaph

UPDATE

So I shut down the machine to time it >> 1m 16sec

I started the machine and it booted into WIndows (bl**dy typical) taking 56sec to desktop & Windows welcome theme.

As it seemed to be behaving, I tried a restart. It took 1m 04sec to get to desktop & Windows welcome theme.

Okay. Click on Chrome and it takes 38sec to open Chrome (97.0.4692.99). Firefox (92.0.1) takes 82sec to display the first page. Both Chrome and Firefox then updated. Chrome is now updated to 98.0.4758.82 and Firefox updated to 96.0.3.

Chrome has 15 processes running (?) with only 4 tabs open (so lots running in the background), CPU load is between 3 and 7% and RAM usage approx 50%. Chrome had 4 active extensions - Adblock Plus, Popup Blocker for Chrome, Kaspersky Protection and Laspersky Security. All other extensions are off.

Can't see why there are 15 Chrome processes.

Running virus scan (although I don't see how this is linked to the static problem this tread was all about)

First thing to check is the battery ok as it may loose setting giving the problem. If it fails to boot press reset not power button does it than boot?

If you're booting to the desktop in 56 seconds, I want that machine.

However, go to All Programs, Accessories, System Tools and select Disk Cleanup. Run it on the C: drive. When it says how much space it can save, make sure that Temporary Files (in addition to Temporary internet files) and Recycle Bin are selected. Let it run and when it's done, reboot. Try your browsers. Does that help?

samuria said:

First thing to check is the battery ok as it may loose setting giving the problem. If it fails to boot press reset not power button does it than boot?

Click to expand...

Hi Samuria

It is a mains-powered desktop pc. I guess you don't mean the CR2032 backup battery for the CMOS??

The pc boots (at the moment it is behaving itself and behaving as expected). When the problem occurs, the pc POSTs then I get a completely black screen with no text just a flashing underscore cursor in the top left corner. There is NO HDD activity.

If I remove all of the cables, do a static drain, then plug everything back in, it boots to Windows without a problem (other than being Slooooooow).

Beats me why it is happening. It did it even on a re-start.

However, for about the last five occasions, the problem seems to have vanished - it shuts down, restarts and boots without a hiccup.

Bizarre or what?

I'd just like to understand what is (or was) going on.

Zaph

- - - Updated - - -

Spoke too soon didn't I?

Today (11th Feb) - the pc is back to POSTing then black screen with cursor, no HDD activity.

Could it be a flaky HDD I wonder??

Thoughts please.

Zaph

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, so I ran some tests to try to get to the bottom of things.
I ran wmic diskdrive get status from a Cmd prompt - got five 'OK's

I then downloaded Crystal Disk Info 8.12 to get the S.M.A.R.T. info from the drive.

Health status is 'Good'.

Used the wiki on S.M.A.R.T. in order to assess the detailed information that CrystalDiskInfo gave:

Link: S.M.A.R.T. - Wikipedia

It looks like the drive *may* be on the way out?

The Read Error Rate is high, Spin-up Time is high, Reallocated Sectors is very high, Spin Retry Count is very high, Temperature - what does 222 even mean??

Power-off Retract Count is very high, Reallocation Event Count is very high, Current Pending Sector Count is very high, Uncorrectable Sector Count is very high, as is the UDMA CRC Error Count.



According to the Wiki article, all of the above should be as low as possible.

Again, any thoughts?

Zaph

After a night being off, start the computer and enter BIOS. Is the day and time correct? If not, change the CR2032 coin battery.

Let's do the basic:
Open a CMD window as administrator and type:
chkdsk c: /f
It will say your disk is in use and ask if you want to schedule to next start = yes
Restart
Pay attention on the results, specially bad blocks, bad clusters, bad sectors etc

Back to Windows, open a CMD window as administrator and type:
sfc /scannow

If it finds any corrupted files, fixing or not, reboot and run again.

You can't imagine what a SSD can do for your old computer.
Why don't you install a small SSD (128G) for windows and programs and use the HDD for data only.

Have a look at this old HP laptop

Megahertz07 said:

After a night being off, start the computer and enter BIOS. Is the day and time correct? If not, change the CR2032 coin battery.

Yep, date & time okay

Let's do the basic:Open a CMD window as administrator and type:chkdsk c: /fIt will say your disk is in use and ask if you want to schedule to next start = yes

Restart Pay attention on the results, specially bad blocks, bad clusters, bad sectors etc

Nothing amiss found

Back to Windows, open a CMD window as administrator and type:sfc /scannow

Interestingly, sfc got to 31% fairly quickly then took an age for 31% and 32%

If it finds any corrupted files, fixing or not, reboot and run again.

Windows Resource Protection did not find any integrity violations

[/B]You can't imagine what a SSD can do for your old computer.Why don't you install a small SSD (128G) for windows and programs and use the HDD for data only.

Have a look at this old HP laptop

Click to expand...

Hi Megahertz

That's what I planned to do - except for this static drain issue

I'd like to understand that first rather than upgrade to a System SSD to find that the static drain issue remains

Zaph.

How do you do a static drain?
Who's charged, you or the computer?
Does your wall outlet has the third pin grounded?

It sounds to me like there's an electrical ground problem somewhere. I don't know what a static drain would do in regards to the HD not spinning unless it's affecting the PSU.

I didn't see the post by Megahertz07 before I posted but I think we're on the same page.

Megahertz07 said:

How do you do a static drain?

Unplug all cables, monitor, mouse, psu, keyboard, etc. Hold power button down for between 10 and 30 sec. Reconnect all cables. Press power button once - pce should boot (if it was a static issue)

Who's charged, you or the computer?

*shrugs * As all I do is power off the pc by clicling on the Start button > Shutdown and power it back on by pressing the pc's power button once, I would guess the pc is the problem - but who knows?

Does your wall outlet has the third pin grounded?

Yes, unlike countries like the US were some mains outlets are not grounded, here in the UK all mains sockets * SHOULD* be grounded. Only our lighting circuits don't generally carry an earth wire (unless for outside lighting)

Click to expand...

Hi Megahertz

This link shows a typical UK mains plug which is both fused (just visible inside the red carrier) and earthed (the longer, central, top-most pin) and a UK mains socket >> Link: Power plug & outlet Type G

Only double-insulated equipment (such as dc mains adapters) have a plastic earth pin as there is no likelihood of the external casing becoming "live".

The pc has a 3-core earthed canble (commonly referred to in the UK as a 'Kettle Lead' Link: https://www.rightpower.co.uk/image/cache/catalog/Cables/ICE-500x500.jpg

wither 2 said:

It sounds to me like there's an electrical ground problem somewhere. I don't know what a static drain would do in regards to the HD not spinning unless it's affecting the PSU.

Click to expand...

wither 2 said:

I didn't see the post by Megahertz07 before I posted but I think we're on the same page.

Click to expand...

Hi Wither,

My son wonders if it may be a failing PSU issue.

Nothing different had been done to the pc before all this malarky started - no new hardware or software. All of a sudden, it wouldn't boot after a normal shutdown and a static drain resolved the issue.

It doesn't do it all the time (which further adds to the confusion) but may require a static drain several times on the trot only for the next time (like this morning for example) for it to boot normally as expected.

I'm VERY puzzled by it!

Hope this helps

Zaph

I have already been in England and you have the best plugs and outlets I have ever seen. I asked if the third pin is grounded because sometimes the ground cable isn't connected to the outlet.

For sure it is not a electrostatic problem. The ground pin is connected to PC case so the case is always grounded (unless the wall outlet isn't grounded.
A ATX PSU has a +5VSB always powered an connected to the MB (pin 9). When you press the case Power button (connected to the MB and not to the PSU) the MB (pin 16) turns on the remaining supplies (5V, 12V, 3V etc) on the PSU.
It can be that the +5VSB isn't always powered, or the MB isn't switching the PSU on the remaining supplies (5V, 12V, 3V etc).

I would try another PSU.

Megahertz07 said:

I have already been in England and you have the best plugs and outlets I have ever seen. I asked if the third pin is grounded because sometimes the ground cable isn't connected to the outlet.
For sure it is not a electrostatic problem. The ground pin is connected to PC case so the case is always grounded (unless the wall outlet isn't grounded.
A ATX PSU has a +5VSB always powered an connected to the MB (pin 9). When you press the case Power button (connected to the MB and not to the PSU) the MB (pin 16) turns on the remaining supplies (5V, 12V, 3V etc) on the PSU.
It can be that the +5VSB isn't always powered, or the MB isn't switching the PSU on the remaining supplies (5V, 12V, 3V etc).
I would try another PSU.

Click to expand...

Hi Megahertz,

So you think my son may be correct and it is a failing PSU issue?

It makes sense that the pc won't boot (no HDD activity) if the 3.3, 5 and 12V supplies aren't being switched on.

Doesn't fit with having to static-drain when the pc won't boot (no HDD activity after POST) but always does after a static-drain.

I can't see how a static drain fixes the PSU if indeed that is the problem.

Once the pc is on, there are no apparent issues with power.

Is it more likely to be a motherboard issue - after all, most of the static-sensitive components are on there? Maybe some insuation has deteriorated over time and is causing the issue? Just fishing here.

Still puzzled!

Zaph

There are capacitors in the PSU. That's why I suggested it might be affecting the PSU.

ZaphodB said:

It makes sense that the pc won't boot (no HDD activity) if the 3.3, 5 and 12V supplies aren't being switched on.

Doesn't fit with having to static-drain when the pc won't boot (no HDD activity after POST) but always does after a static-drain.

I can't see how a static drain fixes the PSU if indeed that is the problem.

Zaph

Click to expand...

If the PS is connected to the wall outlet, +5VSB should be always on. It can be that the +5VSB isn't on, the MB doesn't switch the PS on or the PS doesn't accept the on command.

I don't think that is a static drain that allows it to power on.
I think that it is a complete PS off that does the magic.

wither 2 said:

There are capacitors in the PSU. That's why I suggested it might be affecting the PSU.

Click to expand...

Ahhh... That makes sense (I didn't think of that!)

Megahertz07 said:

If the PS is connected to the wall outlet, +5VSB should be always on. It can be that the +5VSB isn't on, the MB doesn't switch the PS on or the PS doesn't accept the on command.
I don't think that is a static drain that allows it to power on.

Click to expand...

So PSU on its way out you think?

I'll see if I can scavenge a PSU from another PC (my family tend to 'dump' old PCs with me in case I can use any of the stuff inside - e.g. CPUs, RAM, Video or Sound Cards, CD/DVD/BRD oprical drives, etc)

Zaph

Okay so 5 days later ...

Tried to boot pc several times (3).

This time it wouldn't get to the black screen previuosly mentioned - looks like POST didn't complete.

I was stuck at the DELL Initilisation screen (Press F2 for Setup / F12 for Boot Menu) and no keys were active - ie F2 and F12 did nothing. There were no beep codes and there was no HDD activity. Had to power off by pressing the power button.

For the 4th attempt, I removed all cables, did a static drain, re-cabled the pc and it booted.

I couldn't find a spare ATX PSU (I'm shure I have one somewhere) but I'll ask at work to see if there is an old pc lying around that I can scavenge the part from.

Still very puzzled - especially with this new "problem" of not completing the POST.

Zaph

Did you get this resolved?

wither 2 said:

Did you get this resolved?

Click to expand...

Nope!

PC is still playing silly buggers - see this thread

Problematic when booting from cold, will start up from hibernation without a problem.

Really, really puzzled!

Zaph

What have you done in regards to the PSU?

No, nothing yet, @wither 2.

Looking at some Corsair semi-modular PSUs on ebay.

Given that I don't actually *know* that it is a faulty PSU causing the problem, I'm loathe to flash the cash on a brand new PSU if I don't need to. Hence looking for a decent PSU at a decent price on ebay.

What is puzzling me is that this problem suddenly started around 2 months ago. There had been no new software, drivers or devices - the pc suddenly wouldn't boot without a static drain.

Now, even that doesn't always work.

However, once booted if I hibernate the pc, it wakes without a problem and - as happened yesterday - I worked on it all day and it was fine.

To me it looks like the problem is somewhere low-level - such as the BIOS or the motherboard - although the pc continuing to work without a problem once booted would seem to preclude the latter. Similarly, it doesn't seem to be a problem with the CPU or RAM.

Thoughts?

Zaph

Okay ... so an update.

I found a spare PSU (only 250W !) and replaced the original 300W PSU with this spare.

PC resumed from hibernation without a problem and cold-booted also without a problem. Again, I'm writing this post on the problematic pc.

Just going to shut her down and cold boot again to see if the problem is fixed.

Will update this post in due course.

Okay so shut down in 20sec - as opposed to several minutes earlier today after on the first shut down after swapping out the PSU.

Cold-booted without a problem - so it seems that the issue was a flaky PSU after all!

Many, many thanks to @samuria, @wither 2 and @MegaHertZ 07 for their time, advice and patience.

You guys rock!

I just couldn't see how it could be the PSU (turns out you can learn something new!)

Zaph