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Windows 7: CPU-Z pics: A-Data vs Corsair mem in my rig: pls advise

09 May 2010   #11
Rhammstein

HP Win7 Pro x64 | Custom Win7 Pro x64
 
 

This holds true if you can achieve the 1600mhz. I usually assume not so, but I'm not entirely familiar with your motherboard and chipset, I've been with AMD since 2003.


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10 May 2010   #12
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

14K is good.

I think I would stick w/the Corsair tbh. Then again, when it comes to RAM my personal pref. would be Corsair or Gskill so its purely a personal choice there.

As sygnus21 has suggested, bios settings will play a role as to how well it performs as well. May wish to look into it further.


But as I said before, at the end of the day, I seriously doubt youll really notice any diff. between 1333 & 1600 in real world use, even gaming. Except for a few apps that can show some gain.

So unless your one that just loves to tweak bios settings and get all you can (I am one of those ) It really wont make much difference in the grand scheme of things.

Another reason I would stay w/the Corsair, is its capable of 1600. So even if you arent running at that now, it just means you have breathing room on the RAM for some overclocking, if you choose to do so now or in the future.

Good Luck
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10 May 2010   #13
VulcanSoulPatch

Win7 Pro x64
 
 

Rhammstein, thank you for your much more in-depth reply, I appreciate it. BTW, what is your 1066 memory listed at? Over 15GB/s, that pretty damn good! I turned HT off in my BIOS, so maybe turning it back on will make a difference, too.

I am hoping to steal a little free time today when I get home from work to do the swap out and test. I am also thinking about running Memtest86+. Have any of you tried it out? Is it a good tool?

VSP
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10 May 2010   #14
VulcanSoulPatch

Win7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
At any rate, looking at CPU-Z, the dominators run at 1600MHz, were as the A-Data will only do 1370? I'd personally go with the Dominators as they are better sticks and will also clock higher.
They are both listed to me as 1600, and I believe this to be true. Furthermore, looking at the A-Data part number, it is DDR3 1600G, which tells me they are 1600s.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
One other thing, If your know how to enter the BIOS, set your Dominator RAM to XMP mode.
Yes, this I still have to check on. Will change this setting and rerun the winsat before swapping out to A-Data.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
The only difference between your and mine is that I have tighter (better) timings. Yours is 9-9-9-24-2T, Mine is 8-8-8-24-1T, other than that we can both run at 1600MHz.
... and mine is 8500F and yours is 10700H, so your bandwidth is 667MHz vs my 533MHz.
But this timing thing is still confusing me. I was told when I selected the Doms for purchase that they were 9-9-9-24. I can see in the "XMP-1600" column that they are 9-9-9-24 there, but then CPU-Z validator tells me that they are 7-7-7-20 as well as the Mem tab from the Dom results (4th pic in OP). Then I was talking about it with my Dad yesterday, and he was telling me that the second to last number in the Corsair model number is the CAS, so in my case it is 9 (CM3X2G1600C9D6), so I am even more confused. I know that it really all boils down to actual performance, but I would like to understand what it is I am seeing so that I can have realistic expectations.

VSP
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10 May 2010   #15
VulcanSoulPatch

Win7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
I think I would stick w/the Corsair tbh. Then again, when it comes to RAM my personal pref. would be Corsair or Gskill so its purely a personal choice there.
I have the same preference, too, as I had issues with an A-Data 4GB CF card that I bought from Fry's ~2 years ago (replaced it with a Sandisk Ultra II 8GB). Thing is, I am paying more for the Doms but quite a large margin, ~$75. I am guessing the builders offer to keep the A-Data and take the refund still stands, but I don't know. There is also the issue of whether or not they will refund me the difference between the A-Data and generic, since at the time I ordered they were fronting the A-Data to ppl who ordered the generic since they ran out of the generic and did not want to hold up the orders toooo long. So you can see now why this has become such a big issue to me. If they were the same price, meh... keep the Doms and be done with it. But since I am paying more, is it a wise investment. Esp. since if I do end up buying a second 4GB set in the future, there is the difference in cost between the two (though my cursory serach showed not as much of a difference as I had believed back when I first picked up my rig).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
As sygnus21 has suggested, bios settings will play a role as to how well it performs as well. May wish to look into it further. [...] So unless your one that just loves to tweak bios settings and get all you can (I am one of those ) It really wont make much difference in the grand scheme of things.
I am not afraid to go into the BIOS to tweak settings, but I am not one to tweak and test ad nauseum. OTOH, I would like to have the best running machine that I possible can given the equipment I have. So, any tweaks I can make to get better performance I will do. Aside from OC'ing... since I am still under "warranty", I don't want to mess with that until later. Plus, at this point in time I have no real need to OC since my rig is handling everything I have thrown at it thus far.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Another reason I would stay w/the Corsair, is its capable of 1600. So even if you arent running at that now, it just means you have breathing room on the RAM for some overclocking, if you choose to do so now or in the future.
Like I said, OC'ing for the future. But I would like to get the memory running at 1600 now if that is possible w/o OC'ing. On my old board, changing the speed was as simple as flipping a switch on the mobo that changed the FSB from 200MHz to 266MHz. Since I haven't looked into it at all with this setup, I have no idea how to achieve it. Here's the link to my mobo. I believe I am still running an older BIOS, so I need to flash that, too, along with the myriad of other things on my to-do list.

Thanks again for all of the input everybody! I am learning a lot with this, and hopefully by the time we are done I will be satisfied with my decision (hope, since I am the eternal post-purchase re-evaluator ).

VSP
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10 May 2010   #16
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by VulcanSoulPatch View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
The only difference between your and mine is that I have tighter (better) timings. Yours is 9-9-9-24-2T, Mine is 8-8-8-24-1T, other than that we can both run at 1600MHz.
... and mine is 8500F and yours is 10700H, so your bandwidth is 667MHz vs my 533MHz.
But this timing thing is still confusing me. I was told when I selected the Doms for purchase that they were 9-9-9-24. I can see in the "XMP-1600" column that they are 9-9-9-24 there, but then CPU-Z validator tells me that they are 7-7-7-20 as well as the Mem tab from the Dom results (4th pic in OP). Then I was talking about it with my Dad yesterday, and he was telling me that the second to last number in the Corsair model number is the CAS, so in my case it is 9 (CM3X2G1600C9D6), so I am even more confused. I know that it really all boils down to actual performance, but I would like to understand what it is I am seeing so that I can have realistic expectations.
VSP
Our ram will run with tighter timings but at lower frequncies. If you take a closer look at CPU-Z you'll notice the the "tighter" timings come at the cost of "lower" frequencies. It's more or less a give and take thing. So, for example, if you wanted to run at 7-7-7-20, you couldn't do it at 1600MHz with that RAM. You could try, but it'll fail because it's not designed to run with those timing at that high a frequency.

As for the "9" at the end, that means the memory's timings are 9-9-9-, meaning it's not quite as fast as 8-8-8. I'm no memory expert so if you want to get a grasp on those timing and things, look here - XMS Qualification and Testing! - The Corsair Support Forums

And Wishmaster is right, you may not see a big difference between 1333 and 1600, but the 1600 sticks are better for tweaking/overclocking because you have more headroom.

Also - What is memtest86+, what do I use it for?

Good luck.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 May 2010   #17
VulcanSoulPatch

Win7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Our ram will run with tighter timings but at lower frequncies. If you take a closer look at CPU-Z you'll notice the the "tighter" timings come at the cost of "lower" frequencies. It's more or less a give and take thing. So, for example, if you wanted to run at 7-7-7-20, you couldn't do it at 1600MHz with that RAM. You could try, but it'll fail because it's not designed to run with those timing at that high a frequency.
Wait for it... wait for it... ><
....................................

I think I get it now. The JEDEC columns show the possible timings I can have with the associated bandwidth settings. As you stated, the tighter the timings, the lower the bandwidth. So, if I am reading this correctly, at JEDEC #4, the A-Data and the Doms are equal, since they sport the same 9-9-9-25 @ 685MHz (though, to be fair, the Doms are 26, not 25). But the Doms sport an extra column due to XMP, which shows they can run at 9-9-9-24 @ 800MHz. I am guessing that I could possibly push the A-Data to do the same (since they are supposed to be rated at 1600), but to do that, I would have to OC. Doing it with the Doms is just a BIOS setting (turning on XMP). Am I getting this right?

Further, it appears that my CPU-Z results are with the A-Data in JEDEC #4 while the Doms are only operating ~ JEDEC #2. I am guessing I would have to play with the BIOS to get them into JEDEC #4, but since I will there anyway I will just put them into XMP (although it would be nice to see how it performs in JEDEC #4 so that I can compares apples to apples).

So, am I on the right track?

Also, thanks for the links. I will read them more in-depth later. Now, to see if I can duck out of here and get some "real work" done today...

VSP
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10 May 2010   #18
Rhammstein

HP Win7 Pro x64 | Custom Win7 Pro x64
 
 

The 15GB/sec performance I get from my PC3 1066 Samsung memory is mostly a result of the chipset. Something else to consider, because you would expect that your memory would outperform mine easily, but it actually falls behind, the Corsair. Nothing technical, it's the HyperTransport link, if you disabled, my god enable it! I didn't know you could even disable such a thing.....I'm actually a little confused now /must think

Also, keep in mind, many chipsets will "NOT" allow those higher clocks if you run 8GB of ram, you should consider this carefully before you go with the other memory. This is why I stick to my original suggestion, the A-Data. 1600 over 1333 is nothing, almost no application can peak that kind of bandwidth, I'd say timings are more important, for that reason. Anyway, just wanted to let ya know, since nobody has warned you, adding that second 4GB may make 1600 impossible, "may", I'm not certain with your chipset, but if so, there's no reason to pay $75 more for 1600 memory only because it's easier to achieve the 1600, when you may not be able to run it in the end anyways.
Assuming you'd prefer 8GB of Ram at a slightly slower bandwidth, which is certainly the right call, especially if you're running 7 x64.

I can't tell how interested you are, if you'd like CpuZ screens of my memory performance etc etc, let me know I'll do that for you. Keep in mind, important, this is my HP HPE rig, not my performance gamer rig, so not to confuse you, they both use 8GB ram.

Memtest86 is only a tool for testing memory for errors. It is no kind of benchmark and not necessary, however, I very, very highly recommend using it if you ever encounter bizarre behavior with your system, rule out memory, Psu, and then malicious software, not in that order, but, yeah.

Peace


Edit: Here are 3 screens showing the HPE, this should give some insight. Chipset plays a huge role eh?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ave_specs1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ave_specs2.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ave_specs3.jpg

I didn't feel like resizing them, forgot to and they're too big to do an IMG.

Peace
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10 May 2010   #19
VulcanSoulPatch

Win7 Pro x64
 
 

My mistake... I thought the "HT" you were referring to was HyperThreading, not HyperTransport. I am not sure what the latter is, or if I even have it (am assuming it is a mobo/BIOS thing, right?).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Rhammstein View Post
Also, keep in mind, many chipsets will "NOT" allow those higher clocks if you run 8GB of ram, you should consider this carefully before you go with the other memory. This is why I stick to my original suggestion, the A-Data. 1600 over 1333 is nothing, almost no application can peak that kind of bandwidth, I'd say timings are more important, for that reason. Anyway, just wanted to let ya know, since nobody has warned you, adding that second 4GB may make 1600 impossible, "may", I'm not certain with your chipset, but if so, there's no reason to pay $75 more for 1600 memory only because it's easier to achieve the 1600, when you may not be able to run it in the end anyways.
Assuming you'd prefer 8GB of Ram at a slightly slower bandwidth, which is certainly the right call, especially if you're running 7 x64.
OK, back to Confusionville for me. I believe the A-Data is also 1600 due to what it was listed at on the builders site, in conjunction with the model info from the CPU-Z screen in the OP (don't have the complete model # with me, but I do have a pic of it on my camera). That being said, the results of my CPU-Z tests show that the Corsair Dominator sticks are, by default, running at a lower bandwidth with tighter timings, so I am confused by your suggestion since it seems that the Doms would fit the bill according to your statement (bolded above). Maybe I am reading it wrong.

I have heard about an issue with OC'ing when you have higher amounts of mem, but not that I might not be able to achieve 1600. Would that be because of my mobo, or what? I am running Win7 x64, but I have heard that adding more mem to the system will only help out programs that will actually use it, such as CAD and video processing software. Games not being on that list. I have a HD camcorder that I have taken many hours of footage with and need to process onto DVD (no BD Writer yet). I am thinking that is where the extra mem will come into play and I am leaving myself open to whichever option will give me the best overall performance (which is also why I went with the i7 860 vs the i7 920... system balance over pure HyperThreading performance).

Thanks for the screenies (no worries about resizing... high bandwidth at work); the second one answered my question from post 13 that your DDR3 1066 memory is PC3 10700, the same as the A-Data. And it is only 4 months old. Nice! Don't know how old the A-Data is since the Week/Year field is greyed out, but I think it should be about the same age as yours, solely because it is 10700 and not 8500 like the ol' fogey Doms from mid 2008.

BTW, aside from double-checking to see if XMP is enabled in my BIOS, how can I set the mem timing/bandwidth? I am still not sure why the Doms set themselves at a lower bandwidth than the A-Data did (as I mentioned before, ~JEDEC #2 vs JEDEC #4), and I am interested in finding out if it is possible to manually set it.

VSP
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 May 2010   #20
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by VulcanSoulPatch View Post
So, if I am reading this correctly, at JEDEC #4, the A-Data and the Doms are equal, since they sport the same 9-9-9-25 @ 685MHz (though, to be fair, the Doms are 26, not 25). But the Doms sport an extra column due to XMP, which shows they can run at 9-9-9-24 @ 800MHz.
To see what your memory is "actually" running, look at the "Memory" tab in CPU-Z. The "SPD" tab shows your memory table, thus all the possible settings.

Certain memory modules, like Corsair's Dominators use whatís called XMP which stands for Extreme memory profiles (XMP) are SPD (Serial Presence Detect) settings that are activated once memory modules are installed onto a motherboard that supports such settings. What this basically means is that the memory is automatically set to its performance settings. Once again, you motherboard (specifically the BIOS) has to support this, otherwise you'll have to do it manually. This is why I asked if your motherboard has XMP support, if it does use it to "maximize" your memory's performance.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by VulcanSoulPatch View Post
Further, it appears that my CPU-Z results are with the A-Data in JEDEC #4 while the Doms are only operating ~ JEDEC #2. I am guessing I would have to play with the BIOS to get them into JEDEC #4, but since I will there anyway I will just put them into XMP (although it would be nice to see how it performs in JEDEC #4 so that I can compares apples to apples.
Since the "Doms" use XMP you can just select XMP in the BIOS if it supports it. For the A-Data you'll have to set the memory manually.

Now, most "tweakers", me included, set their memory setting manually anyway, with or without XMP. This way we "know" that the memory is running at the settings "we" choose, even if those settings are the same as the XMP profile calls for. Itís the old manual vs auto trust factor. However I can say that XMP works on my board as advertised, though I still prefer to set them manually.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by VulcanSoulPatch View Post
I am guessing that I could possibly push the A-Data to do the same (since they are supposed to be rated at 1600), but to do that, I would have to OC. Doing it with the Doms is just a BIOS setting (turning on XMP). Am I getting this right?
You "may or may not" be able to run at 1600MHz (800 x2) if that speed is not supported! Memtest will bear this out should you try and push them and run the test. If the memory passes at that speed, youíre good.

Hope this helps.
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 CPU-Z pics: A-Data vs Corsair mem in my rig: pls advise




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