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Windows 7: Windows 7 Mouse Acceleration Help!

12 Apr 2011   #41
RichardT

Windows 7 64 bit
 
 

Hi Marc, I can't seem to find private messaging on this forum. Anyway.
You are my hero. When I got this computer I was very angry at Microsoft for having bestowed this cruel joke upon me. As soon as I applied your fix it worked perfectly.

My one concern is the fact that when I restart my computer my mouse settings reset to mouse acceleration on, at a slower speed and the changes done to my registry seem to have reverted. (when I disable mouse accel and put it to the fastest possible speed I still notice some accel, it's only after I use your fix again that it goes away)

Is there anyway that I can keep your fix on my mouse permanently, even after I shut down and turn on my computer again? Thank you.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
13 Apr 2011   #42
Rockfella

Windows 8.1 Pro
 
 

OP U need a gaming mouse. MX518 sorts.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Apr 2011   #43
Mark C

Windows
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by snsz View Post
Thanks MarkC, that explains it i guess! i had 60hz and default dpi on xp, which is the "small fonts". But than how am i feeling a little acceleration still? :/ (placebo?)
I guess the fix is working, anyways i had the same sensitivity and feeling with the EPP unticked (Win 7 already) before i clicked the fix, and i readed that there is still some little acceleration with EPP off in win 7. Placebo ;p ? probably, but getting on my nerves
Thank You
What happens if you do the "fast out, slow back" test in-game?
YouTube - [HOW TO] Check if mouse acceleration is enabled or disabled in your game
(Note, he is using the edge of his keyboard to make so the mouse comes back to the same point each time.)

Do you end up back at the same aim point you started at, or does it not come as far back? If you end up back at the start point (more or less), then you likely have no accel.

Many people have noted that Windows 7 mouse response seems "laggy", but nobody so far has been able to exactly explain it...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

15 Apr 2011   #44
Mark C

Windows
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RichardT View Post
My one concern is the fact that when I restart my computer my mouse settings reset to mouse acceleration on, at a slower speed and the changes done to my registry seem to have reverted. (when I disable mouse accel and put it to the fastest possible speed I still notice some accel, it's only after I use your fix again that it goes away)

Is there anyway that I can keep your fix on my mouse permanently, even after I shut down and turn on my computer again? Thank you.
To test if my fix is still in place after a reboot:
- Goto Control Panel and set the pointer speed slider to the middle 6/11 position
(UNLESS you used my mouse fix builder, in that case leave the pointer speed slider where you usually leave it.)
- Set the 'Enhance pointer precision' checkbox ON (for testing only)
- Run MouseMovementRecorder.exe (in my fix zip file) and see what it says when you move the mouse fast and slow.

If you see no red and no green (or only very infrequent red or green, mostly black), then my fix is still in place.

If you see lots of red or green with EPP ON, then something is undoing my fix somewhere...

Do you have a Razer mouse?

My Razer Diamondback 3G drivers turn EPP on after every boot (and I suspect the Krait drivers do the same).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 May 2011   #45
RacerX

Windows 7 64 bit
 
 
Increasing Mouse Movement

Hi all,

I know this thread is kind of old but I'm hopeful. And I am sorry if I am posting in the wrong place but this thread looks like it might help me but I'm not sure.

This is mainly directed at MarkC and anyone who might know. I could not tell from reading everything if the "MarkC fix" would increase my mouse movement. (Following is a long post with hopefully enough information to find a solution).

Situation:
Trying to increase mouse movement in Windows 7. Cannot move the mouse cursor from one side of the screen to the other in one short movement of the mouse. The mouse movement I am trying to accomplish in Windows would be one full (or preferably less) movement of the thumb from bottom to top (left to right on the screen) of the Trackball, approx 1.5 inches in order to get from the left side to the right side of the screen. As it is I have to do it 2 times or use 2 thumb movements (not good for certain games)


Data:
I have been working on this for many weeks with no success. Searching the web and countless emails back and forth to Logitech. Tried using various Setpoint apps but only had to delete them completely out of my system. I have tried many different registry settings with no success. I am not an expert on all the components needed in order to accomplish the above but I have confirmed that the hardware is not an issue. The reason I know this is because I use multiple O/Ses and when I use Linux Fedora 13 I can go under “system settings” and make the mouse travel across the screen instantly moving it like 1/8 of an inch (which is way to fast and inaccurate to control). So that just leaves finding the right (if any) settings to make this work under Windows 7 64 bit.


New gaming pc less then 1 year old – Not really relevant to this problem but in case you need the info.
MB - Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P
CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 965
RAM - Kingston HyperX 4GB DDR3 1600MHz
Video - MSI R5850 ATI Radeon HD 5850 graphics card
PS - Corsair 750 TX power supply
HD - Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB


Relevant Hardware involved.
Monitor – Samsung SyncMaster T260, SyncMaster Magic T260(Digital) 25.5 inch screen set at max resolution of 1920x1200 @60Hz – Yes I know if I lower the resolution it will travel farther but it will look horrid and have far to little desk space to be useful.
Mouse – Old School Logitech Trackman Marble+ Model T-CL13 using the PS/2 port.
Here is a link to an image - Amazon.com: Logitech T-CL13 TrackMan Marble Wheel (PC/Mac): Electronics – and NO I DO NOT WANT TO USE ANOTHER MOUSE especially since it does work great under Linux.


I have looked at and changed some of the following Registry settings:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse\MouseSpeed
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse\MouseThreshold1
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse\MouseThreshold2


The default are 1,6,10 with the settings under the Control panel> mouse>Pointer Options>Motion>set to max/far right fastest setting and Enhance pointer precision checked.
I have tried various settings like 2,4,6 1,0,0 etc. rebooting after each change and nothing increased the movement.


I then found this PS/2 Mouse Report Rate under Windows 7 x64 - Logitech Forums and started to play with those keys with no success.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\ACPI\PNP0F13\3&18d45aa6&0\Device Parameters\SampleRate
I used the MouseRate (Mouse Rate Checker 1.1b Static (c) 1998, 1999 Oliver Tscherwitschke) to verify that I had started with 100Hz and increased it to 200Hz. I only changed the above setting at first but that made my mouse move less so I tried changing the other settings but it did not get better and it was causing my boot up to take longer so I put everything back to way it was.


Other maybe possibly pertinent articles I found.
CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net
Mouse threshold and registry and Windows 7 Mouse Acceleration Help! - With specific reference to MarkC XY curve adjustments – I never tried it because I could not determine if those changes would increase the movement factor.


It seems to me that if we can find the right combination of settings we should be able to make the mouse move the way we want it. If however Windows (and/or Windows 7 in particular) has some restrictions then I guess we can't.


Sorry for the long post but hopefully it has enough information in it to help come up with a solution.


Thanks,
Cory
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2011   #46
Mark C

Windows
 
 

Hi Cory,

Yes, there is something that can be done to speed up your trackball.
Try the registry file I made for Maggy:
Windows 7 Mouse Acceleration Help!

++++ Copy to Inclination_90-3.reg copy below do not copy this line ++++
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse]
"SmoothMouseXCurve"=hex:\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
cc,4c,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
00,c0,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
00,80,01,00,00,00,00,00,\
00,00,08,00,00,00,00,00
"SmoothMouseYCurve"=hex:\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
33,73,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
00,80,04,00,00,00,00,00,\
00,00,28,00,00,00,00,00,\
00,00,6a,02,00,00,00,00
++++ Copy to Inclination_90-3.reg copy above do not copy this line ++++

Use notepad to create a text file, and paste in the above text (don't include the ++++ lines).
Save as "Inclination_90-3.reg". Find it in Windows Explorer, you may have to rename it to get rid of ".txt" on the end then double-click it to load it into the registry.
Reboot and see how it goes.
Maggy found it worked well for her trackball.

We can tune it a bit, or you can try some of the other reg files here:
Google Translate
... that is Google translate of a Japanese site, but if you persevere, there are *.reg files to download and try.
Reboot after applying each reg file before testing it.
If any go really strange, Control Panel and turn off EPP to recover.

Load http://07.net/mouse/regfiles/Default.reg to revert back to Windows 7 standard accel curve.

Its late here, so I'll answer your questions tomorrow...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2011   #47
Mark C

Windows
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
This is mainly directed at MarkC and anyone who might know. I could not tell from reading everything if the "MarkC fix" would increase my mouse movement.
The "MarkC registry fix" probably won't help, but the "MarkC" (me!) should be able to.
What you need is more acceleration at fast mouse speeds while still having control at lower mouse speeds: you need a more aggressive acceleration curve.
(The MarkC Mousefix Builder can speed up total movement for mice, BUT it removes acceleration, and you will need acceleration, so its no good.)

I can likely help you tweak your Windows mouse acceleration curve so it works better for you.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Data:
I have been working on this for many weeks with no success. Searching the web and countless emails back and forth to Logitech. Tried using various Setpoint apps but only had to delete them completely out of my system.
There are at least two ways to get a more aggressive acceleration curve:

1) Install SetPoint drivers and change the acceleration using the SetPoint options to do that. (I don't have a Logitech mouse, I can't really help with that.)

2) Disable SetPoint or configure it to use OS Implementation of acceleration, and build/tweak a Windows accel curve that works better for you.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
I have looked at and changed some of the following Registry settings:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse\MouseSpeed
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse\MouseThreshold1
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse\MouseThreshold2
In Windows XP/Vista/7, there is a mouse acceleration curve that changes the sensitivity factor depending on the mouse speed. At slow mouse speeds, the sensitivity is ~x0.6, so 10 on-mouse-pad counts (CPI) is 6 on-screen pixels, at faster speeds the sensitivity increases, to x1.0, so 10 mouse counts is 10 pixels and at even faster speeds it can get as high as 2.something.

The curve is enabled with the control panel 'Enhance pointer precision' checkbox.
The value of the checkbox is stored in the MouseSpeed registry value.
(It is called MouseSpeed for historical reasons, but that is now a bad name for it.)
=0 : EPP OFF
>0 : EPP ON

MouseThreshold1 and MouseThreshold2 only work for Windows 2000 and prior and now have no effect.

The registry MouseSensitivity value is the Control Panele 'Pointer speed' slider value (munged a little)

The acceleration curve is stored in the SmoothMouseXCurve and SmoothMouseYCurve values.
Editing the curve values (by .REG files) is how you change the curve to get higher accel. At some optimal values, you might be able to move the pointer all the way accross the screen with a single trackball swipe, and also have fine control at slower speeds. Hopefully.

The total mouse sensitivity is calculated (more or less) by:

Desktop DPI * CurveLookup * MouseSensitivity * AConstant

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
I then found this PS/2 Mouse Report Rate under Windows 7 x64 - Logitech Forums and started to play with those keys with no success.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\ACPI\PNP0F13\3&18d45aa6&0\Device Parameters\SampleRate
I used the MouseRate (Mouse Rate Checker 1.1b Static (c) 1998, 1999 Oliver Tscherwitschke) to verify that I had started with 100Hz and increased it to 200Hz. I only changed the above setting at first but that made my mouse move less so I tried changing the other settings but it did not get better and it was causing my boot up to take longer so I put everything back to way it was.
Increasing your mouse rate will tend to reduce the acceleration and slow your mouse, which is not what you want.

Example (ignore this, it doesn't help your problem, but for technical completeness explains why your mouse moved less):
Suppose you were moving the trackball at a speed of 8 counts (DPI) per mouse sample (@100Hz) and the accel curve might translate that to 8 pixels of pointer movement per mouse sample (medium accel). In 0.1 second, the pointer would move 80 pixels (8*100*0.1).
If you set 200Hz, the same mouse speed would be 4 counts (DPI) per mouse sample (@200Hz) and the accel curve might translate that to 3 pixels of pointer movement per sample (lower accel because 4 < 8). In 0.1 seconds, the pointer would only move 60 pixels (3*200*0.1).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
... Windows 7 Mouse Acceleration Help! - With specific reference to MarkC XY curve adjustments – I never tried it because I could not determine if those changes would increase the movement factor.
Try it!
That curve has a lot of acceleration.
Also try the other curves at the Japanese site.
You may have to try quite a few curves before you get a good enough one.

The idea is test those curves, get the best one, then (with my help) tweak it if needed.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2011   #48
RacerX

Windows 7 64 bit
 
 

Wow MarkC thx for the fast reply!


After your input I did a more thorough look at the curves so I got a better understanding. I did an export/backup of the entire registry and also did a selected export/backup of just the Mouse section for easy restore in case things went wrong.


I used your Inclination_90-3.reg setting and YES! Low and Behold I have much more mouse movement but it definitely needs to be tweaked. I had to turn down the speed to like setting 4 from max and the mouse is somewhat erratic/inaccurate in its movements. On first observation the fast is too fast and the slow is to slow(but very accurate). I think ideally I want that 1 to 1 ratio. I have read about using setting 6 for speed and no acceleration but I am not sure if that can done?


In relation to your settings and the other ones on translated Google site where does yours fit in? Right after the 90-2.reg?


To clarify one point about Logitech Setpoint software/drivers. At the time I tired using this the older version of Setpoint would not run under Windows 7 64 bit. The newer version of Setpoint would run but did not recognize my mouse. So Setpoint is not an option no matter how I tried to use it and Logitech was not going to update either version.


With regard to the MouseSpeed (turning on/off EPP ) and MouseThreshold settings from what I have read MouseSpeed the only values appear to be 0, 1, or 2
0=off, 1=2x of MouseThreshold1 and 2=2x of MouseThreshold1 and 4x of MouseThreshold2. But as you have said MouseThreshold's are not being used in Windows 7. So another question comes to mind... what is effecting the MouseSpeed setting if anything? Oh I think I just answered it. After using your curve settings and reading some more I guess its the XY that has an effect on the EPP? Because the MouseSpeed/EPP does have an effect on the mouse movement being on or off. And just turning it on and off only produces the values of 0 or 1. You cannot get the value of 2 from the control panel settings. But as I have tried it many times already it appears that changing the MouseThreshold1 to 0, 2, 4, 6, etc. has no effect on the actual movement. Only the MouseSpeed being on or off. This whole paragraph being a moot point is just my curiosity asserting itself


Thank you for the (what should have been obvious) explanation of the SampleRate.


I will try other settings and see how they work.


Some results so far. I have been changing the control panel settings using EPP and not and altering the speed to test everything.


Inclination_90-3.reg – Mixed – slow was too slow but very accurate which I liked! The fast was too fast and seemed a bit erratic

Fixed 4 24.reg – One someone else posted early in thread – seemed to have proportional movement nice and even but took 4x movement to get across screen.
Fixed 128.reg – Way to fast and erratic – had to use EPP and low speed to use it at all.
Fixed 32.reg – Better - I can adjust the speed to get across the screen but I have to use EPP on. And the slow movement is not very accurate at all.


Multiple 3.reg – This seems to be close to what I'm use to and still gets me across the screen and I'm using setting 6 in the control panel>Mouse so there is room to increase. However I still have to use EPP on. The motion is smooth and at slow speed fairly accurate(not as accurate as your settings in Inclination_90-3.reg thou). I'll use this one for awhile and see how I like it.

Ok after using this last one I like the fast movement and being able to cross my screen in one stroke but I would really like to get the slow movement more refined like it is in your Inclination_90-3.reg. So any suggestion well most welcomed.

Thx Again!
Cory
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 May 2011   #49
Mark C

Windows
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
In relation to your settings and the other ones on translated Google site where does yours fit in? Right after the 90-2.reg?
My 90-3 version is VERY like 90-2 from that website, except the middle accel is tweaked a little up and a little down, not much, just some to tweak it.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
With regard to the MouseSpeed (turning on/off EPP ) and MouseThreshold settings from what I have read MouseSpeed the only values appear to be 0, 1, or 2
0=off, 1=2x of MouseThreshold1 and 2=2x of MouseThreshold1 and 4x of MouseThreshold2. But as you have said MouseThreshold's are not being used in Windows 7. So another question comes to mind... what is effecting the MouseSpeed setting if anything?
MouseThreshold/MouseThreshold1/MouseThreshold2 is exactly as you say on Windows 2000 and prior.
On Windows XP/Vista/7, MouseSpeed=0 <-> EPP OFF and MouseSpeed>0 <-> EPP ON and MouseThreshold1/MouseThreshold2 are ignored.
(Somewhat strangely, XP+ still SETS MouseThreshold1/MouseThreshold2 based on MouseSpeed but does not use them...)

With EPP ON, then the SmoothMouseXYCurve values are used to compute accel.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Multiple 3.reg – This seems to be close to what I'm use to and still gets me across the screen and I'm using setting 6 in the control panel>Mouse so there is room to increase. However I still have to use EPP on. The motion is smooth and at slow speed fairly accurate(not as accurate as your settings in Inclination_90-3.reg thou). I'll use this one for awhile and see how I like it.

Ok after using this last one I like the fast movement and being able to cross my screen in one stroke but I would really like to get the slow movement more refined like it is in your Inclination_90-3.reg. So any suggestion well most welcomed.
Yes, you will need EPP ON, otherwise the curve is ignored completely.

Here's what you do:

1) If you can, please try some of the other curves at that site, in case there is one that is even better than Multiple 3.reg.
It will be easier if we have the best possible starting point.

2) Download my fix ZIP file, and there is a program in it: MouseMovementRecord.exe.

Run that program and then test move the mouse fast and slow.
Where you think the pointer is too slow, take a note of the "MOUSE MOVEMENT" column. Let me know the X x Y values where you think it needs to be faster.
Where you think the pointer is too fast, take a note of the "MOUSE MOVEMENT" column. Let me know the X x Y values where you think it needs to be slower.

3) I'll then tweak the REG file and you try it out again. Rinse, repeat until one of us gets sick of it...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 May 2011   #50
RacerX

Windows 7 64 bit
 
 

MarkC,

Thanks again for all your help!
I did try more of the settings and even played around with changing just the X parameters in the registry. I am very happy with the fact that I can move across the screen and I am going to use Inclination 60 or 90.reg with some adjustments to the Pointer Speed setting.

The slow movement is accurate and smooth while the mid to fast still gets me where I want to go (across the screen) at a smooth fast one thumb movement pace.

So I am done rebooting for now and no need to tweak the settings really. Beside I was getting sick of it and no need to make both of us sick.

Again I can't THANK YOU enough! If ever I could return the favor I will.

Thx,
Cory
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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